On the SCO summit’s first day, Kyrgyz President Sadyr Japarov made Putin wait for him before issuing a joint statement – even though Kyrgyzstan hosts a Russian military base, and at least one million of its citizens work as labour migrants in Russia. — Al Jazeera
It may seem a bit childish to gloat like that, but in politics optics matter, and this is an apt illustration of the point made in the article. — SophistiCat
We have to work very carefully.
From my experience fighting the Russian invasion force is like fighting children. — Wolfman
boethius means winning as a surrender, much the same way the Dutch and French surrendered to the Germans and the Germans surrendered to the Allies and the Russians. Winning like that is nigh impossible. I think that's a bit of a semantic trick though. — Benkei
Then there's winning meaning reclaiming the above and Crimea. That's exceedingly difficult and to me it's pretty obvious that that should not be attempted from a cost-benefit analysis (costs in human lives). At least as things stand now and appear to continue for the foreseeable future. — Benkei
Winning meaning reclaiming Donetsk and Luhansk and the southern occupied territories is already much more difficult. Not impossible but I think that also depends on what of the stories are true. Did the Russians merely tactically retreat form Kharkiv or was it an actual gain? Are the Russians having problems with their supply lines or are these news items exagerrated? Is Western material support sufficient or not? I can't tell and I don't think anyone on this site can accurately gage it. Along with those uncertainties, the question also becomes one of whether the costs (eg. Ukrainian deaths first and foremost but also Russian deaths which are mostly men like you and me forced to fight). My personal feeling about that, is that territory is much less important than people. But then I've never been a nationalistic or patriotic type so I might misunderstand the psyche of Ukrainians in that respect. — Benkei
Winning meaning locking up Russian forces in a stalemate which will lead them to eventually accept some type of truce or even peace deal, I think is highly probable. And I'd rather see that sooner than later. — Benkei
Russians merely tactically retreat form Kharkiv or was it an actual gain? — Benkei
Russians merely tactically retreat form Kharkiv or was it an actual gain? Are the Russians having problems with their supply lines or are these news items exagerrated? Is Western material support sufficient or not? I can't tell and I don't think anyone on this site can accurately gage it. — Benkei
even if all of that is true (which I don't think any of us are in a position to say with certainty one way or the other), should they? Is it worth the deaths and destruction? Surely there's more to morality than beating the Russians at all costs? — Benkei
And yes, Ukrainians in majority think that it is worthwhile to chase the Russians from Ukraine. You are welcome to disagree, but your opinion is not really important here. You're not fighting this war. — Olivier5
if our if our tax dollars are being used to finance Ukraines war effort and supply arms and also government implementing sanctions to harm Russia ... how is that not our direct issue as European citizens? — boethius
EU citizens are welcome to demonstrate or argue against what the EU does, ie the EU sanctions or the EU support to Ukraine. But they are not the one deciding to fight or not, and to negotiate or not, or whether it's worthwhile to resist or not. — Olivier5
since the Russians started this war, it's worthwhile thinking about the conditions under which they could be forced or convinced to stop it. — Olivier5
if you want to understand or to question why the war continues, ask that question to the belligerents. They are better placed to answer. — Olivier5
I was fighting in Ukraine in spring when Russia had invaded Kyiv Oblast and was attacking Irpin, Bucha, Brovary, and other surrounding cities. The biggest challenge fighting Russia is their massive amounts of artillery, which is invaluable for keeping attacking infantry units at bay. Russian infantry to my apprehension looked like chickens with their heads cut off, and were hesitant to attack, quick to pull back, and not decisive at all. I have personally seen Ukrainian Territorial Defense units (which are volunteer “reserve” units) hold back incursions made by Russian regulars (supported by tanks), using only automatic rifles, grenades, RPGs, & other rocket systems. To be fair, it is easier to dig in and defend than it is to attack, and attackers generally incur much higher casualties; but I was not impressed with Russia’s combat performance. There was also a host of logistical concerns Russian invaders had to contend with — not limited to bad roads, muddy conditions, fuel shortages, etc. It’s bad when a long column of Russian tanks are stalled out and you can engage them from the trees with infantry & rocket systems, then fall back & mount more attacks. To be fair again, Russia has been better with logistics since that time, but their overall performance on all but one of the Ukrainian fronts has been lackluster thus far. — Wolfman
To be fair again, Russia has been better with logistics since that time, but their overall performance on all but one of the Ukrainian fronts has been lackluster thus far. — Wolfman
the siege, which was part of the Russian eastern Ukraine offensive and southern Ukraine offensive, started on 24 February 2022 and concluded on 20 May 2022, when Russia announced the remaining Ukrainian forces in Mariupol surrendered[47] after they were ordered to cease fighting. — Siege of Mariupol
The battle of Kyiv was part of the Kyiv offensive in the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine for control of Kyiv, the capital city of Ukraine, and surrounding districts. The combatants were elements of the Russian Armed Forces and Ukrainian Ground Forces. The battle lasted from 25 February 2022 to 2 April 2022 and ended with the withdrawal of Russian forces. — Battle of Kyiv (2022)
The idea the Russians have poor performance, no plan, irrational, etc. is just completely dumb propaganda. — boethius
The idea the Russians have poor performance, no plan, irrational, etc. is just completely dumb propaganda.
— boethius
So the truth is that Putin is doing a good job executing a rational plan. Sounds legit. :lol: — apokrisis
Ziehan's analysis – that the real ambition is to push all Russia's boundaries back to defensible mountain passes before demographic collapse leaves its armies starved of recruits – is always going to be more plausible. — apokrisis
If the special operation achieved these limited aims in weeks, then onwards and upwards. The geopolitical logic was still the old Russian dream of control of the steppes all the way to defensible borders. That means Poland to the edge of Warsaw, the Baltic States, etc. — apokrisis
So where would you argue halting Putin's ambitions? You would let him eat your hand, but not your arm? — apokrisis
↪apokrisis This reads like fiction. — Benkei
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