You claimed passing wind is non-linguistic so I refuted this claim. Same goes for rocks. — Hallucinogen
I don't know whether ucarr is saying that logic or language came first. — RussellA
...if we are to take it that language evolved over time, we ought to make conceptual room for a theorised primitive proto-language. — Baden
there is no serious consideration given in academic linguistics to incorporating crow behaviour or tea-making behaviour under even the broadest umbrella understanding of language. — Baden
That's animal communication not language. Conveying information is not a high enough bar for language.
— Baden
What is language for if not conveying information ? — RussellA
I'm trying to follow along here a little, but I don't understand any of this. What could logic have to do with spacetime, for instance? The OP speculates people are introduced to logic through language, and thus logic and language are irreducible. They then must have developed alongside each other from some proto-language, and for some reason this means that spacetime is the ultimate conjunction between ... ? — ToothyMaw
The nature of spacetime must ultimately be language, since language is the most general algebraic structure. For something to obey rules it's got to conform to the rules of language otherwise it's unintelligible. In spacetime you've got objects, these correspond to nouns, you've got time, which correspond to verbs and functions and you've got space which is prepositional. There isn't anything in spacetime that isn't describable in language. Notice how all attempts to unify the sciences involve trying to boil them all down to one language within a unified grammar. The thoughts we model reality with must also be continuous with that reality and continuity implies shared structure. In the CTMU this is called the metaformal system and it couples that which you describe the universe with that which structures it.
https://ctmucommunity.org/wiki/Principle_of_Linguistic_Reducibility
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTIv4GiDGOk - language of spacetime
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXvUyrhAaN8 - reality is a language — Hallucinogen
The sentence "come here" doesn't contain any preposition, yet signifies a spatio-temporal relation.
— RussellA
Yes, and can form a "complete thought" due to the fact that it fulfils at minimum the necessary requirements of a clause, i. e. it contains a verb and everything necessary for the verb in its syntactical context (its complements). And a clause whether singularly acting as a sentence or doing so in conjunction with other clauses, forms the most important semantic building block of language. Here again, the verb is central, and prepositions peripheral. — Baden
↪ucarr
Maybe try to be a little more focused? My problem has always been what appears to be yours: profundity. You or I might be smart, but it is difficult to write profoundly all the time. I find that I get the best product if I stay down to earth and then expand on what I'm writing.
20 hours ago — ToothyMaw
What I'd really like here, I suppose, is to help avoid a descent into pseudo-science. Linguistics, like any other science, has certain principles that ought to be recognized. — Baden
It seems that the crow is using cognition. If the crow has no language, then it is using cognition outside of language. — RussellA
Animals can not know logos because they do not have the complex language as humans have complex languages that can express reasoning. — Athena
Animals do not have gods and neither did early man because a god is a concept, and is not manifested in nature. — Athena
Animals can not know logos because they do not have the complex language as humans have complex languages that can express reasoning — Athena
Animals can communicate but that is not the same as conceptualizing and reasoning which are dependent on language — Athena
We're told humans have dominion over animals. Maybe pets receive God's presence through humans? When a pet takes instruction from human to do a good deed, or when a pet, on its own initiative, does a good deed, such as save an endangered human, is that not a pet_God connection? — ucarr
So now, if you be cognitive individual, you practice motion + intent. Speaking in the vernacular, we call this finding food, shelter & fire. Following closely upon the tail of the basic three come the secondary three: finding love, family & community. The lotus in the garden of the magic seven is, finally, finding cosmos, which means, colloquially, practicing unselfish love for others. — ucarr
IE, human language is not of a different kind to animal communication, but rather, human language has built on what already pre-existed. — RussellA
Grammar introduces all speakers to logic. This is my central claim. — ucarr
Being a human with cognitive abilities does not necessarily mean thinking conceptionally and only that ability separates humans from the rest of the animals. — Athena
However, brain damage can also prevent us from having the ability to reason, so reasoning is more than having language. — Athena
Being able to reason through complex concepts is unique to humans — Athena
IE, pre-language, the crow has the necessary concepts required for language. — RussellA
Hypotheticals — RussellA
Are you suggesting, with the above, that negative effect on reasoning can sometimes occur without negative effect on language? — ucarr
Frontal Lobe Syndrome - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelfhttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › books › NBK532981
by L Pirau · 2021 · Cited by 21 — Frontal lobe syndrome is a broad term used to describe the damage of higher functioning processes of the brain such as motivation, planning, ...
History And Physical · Differential Diagnosis · Enhancing Healthcare Team... — Letitia Pirau
Reacting to our environment is not equal to logical thinking. — Athena
An alligator will endure an electric shock once its teeth get hold of meat but if it does not have the taste of meat, it will pull away from the shock — Athena
The logical side of the left hemisphere includes:
Logic;
Facts;
Details;
Patterns;
Strategies;
Words;
Language;
Order;
Perception;
Past & Present;
Practicality;
Safety;
Comprehension;
Logical Thinking Is Not an Inborn Talent, But Something You Can Learn and Practice
Enhancing logical reasoning is simply learning to pay a closer attention to details. Therefore, there are a few easy techniques to help you overcome thinking obstacles and really focus.
Stop Viewing Things from Your Own Perspective Only
To advance logical thinking process, it is crucial to differentiate established facts from personal observations.Concentrating on the environment and your senses is just individual perception, which mustn’t be confused with logic. — Vladimir Zivanovic
However, if that is not the case, I cannot understand the mechanism that originated human language, etc totally independently from any pre-existing non-human animal ability. — RussellA
Moreover, the size of the cerebral cortex is also a difference between humans' and animals' brain. Humans' brain has a disproportionately large cerebral cortex, accounting for more than 80% of the total brain mass, while the cerebral cortex of the animals' brain is comparatively small.May 7, 2019
What is the Difference Between Humans and Animals Brain — Lakna
Can you provide a definition of "hyohamous"? — ucarr
What is the Difference Between Humans and Animals Brain — Lakna
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