The abject failure of Christianity to break into India — Art48
God demonstrates his presence to those with faith. — Gregory
How do you arrive at this? What relationship with god/s must one have to make a claim like this? — Tom Storm
How is your embodied or experienced certainty distinguished from the similar certainties of a QAnon believer or a Scientologist or a Hindu? — Tom Storm
So my question asked earlier remains: -
How do you arrive at this? What relationship with god/s must one have to make a claim like this? — Tom Storm
You know all this from experience? — Tom Storm
What is the nature of this experience and how can we tell what is true from what is false? — Tom Storm
My question was:
Why should we accept this experiential knowledge as opposed to similar claims from other theists who, let's say, know from experience that god wants 'fags to burn in hell' and that women are inferior to men?
What is the nature of this experience and how can we tell what is true from what is false? — Tom Storm
How do we determine that the sincere personal experience of one believer is right, while the experience of another is wrong. Is there a process? — Tom Storm
Ok, sounds reasonable, but it also tells us that personal experience of god is no pathway to reliable knowledge. We need to use reason and judgement to determine what views we will accept. — Tom Storm
Humans use these inventions. There is a clear track record of how humans have so far used these inventions.
To believe that next week or next year humans will all come together in a single, benevolent "We" and start using their inventions wisely for the betterment of all is a great leap of faith. — Vera Mont
Believing - contrary to all evidence - that something humans created will solve the human condition. — Vera Mont
Science is also failing here. Don't let your anti-religion push you into worshiping or idolizing science. — Olivier5
So, your advice is, don't make the same mistakes theists make all the time. Probably good advice, but we are all forced to plant our flag in one camp or the other. The middle ground is a powerless place, all you can do there, is remain ineffective but you can use it to 'rest and think,' until you decide to move into a camp or else you can remain in limbo and be ineffective, as long as you live. — universeness
:smile: Is that all you got?or don't have a higher philosophical mindset and aren't interested in truth — Gregory
Don't worship anything is better advice. Worship is an extreme, irrational, dangerous activity.Don't worship idols, is one of the best advices in all scripture — Olivier5
As soon as we act, we are indeed forced to chose a side, to make a leap of faith. You are correct on this, but we can act without idolizing our intent. We can make money without becoming its slave; we can fight without demonizing our opponent; and we can love science without giving it the final say, always and on every topic. Science is only human. It can fail. — Olivier5
You are either having a bad day or don't have a higher philosophical mindset and aren't interested in truth, like Tom, but in arguing. — Gregory
I don't follow the value of the path you are trying to trace out here, — universeness
but you continue to demonstrate a strong command of reason, so, I cannot believe you have no confidence left at all, that the human race can create and exist within a very good society that would make the 'human condition,' a very positive experience, — universeness
It will take a lot more time to get it right Vera, as I have typed before, on the timescale of the cosmic calendar, 'give us a f****** chance!' — universeness
Progress is a subjective human concept of which the universe pays no heed — Lambert Strether
Minimum disorder to maximum disorder. That's how I roll, amigo. — 180 Proof
The good thing about science is that it can fail many many times but the scientists will try try again. — universeness
@180 Proof, @Agent Smith, @Tom Storm, @Vera Montthe Universe would have no care about earthling(s) — Lambert Strether
That emergence must have some kind of collective/networked consciousness to it? Do you agree? — universeness
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