What does green sound like? How much does love weigh?
Just being able to string words together in question format doesn't imply an answer is wanting. — Isaac
The comparison is not apt. Even if it is not explained, we understand what a theory of IBS would look like: a cascade of biological processes, in one form or another, lead to and explain the observed symptoms. This is readily conceivable.We have not yet explained irritable bowel syndrome either. I — Isaac
I disagree with this. Scientists don't generally say that biology is nothing but chemistry. In the same way, mental processes, including consciousness, are not nothing but biology. But they are bound by biology in the same way that recorded music is bound by a CD or MP3 reader or radio. Music is not nothing but electronic equipment and electrical processes. — T Clark
But they are bound by biology in the same way that recorded music is bound by a CD or MP3 reader or radio. Music is not nothing but electronic equipment and electrical processes. — T Clark
Any study of consciousness using neuroscience alone will surely fail and here's why. — Mark Nyquist
Our brains contain networks and catalogs and hierarchies of biologically contained non-physicals that will never be detected by any physical means, ever, regardless of the science. — Mark Nyquist
But just as the wood and spring of the mouse trap in no way explain how a mouse trap could be consciousness, the laws of biology, chemistry, electricity, and quantum mechanics in no way explain consciousness—or even hint that consciousness is possible. — Art48
By science I mean the instruments that detect physical matter....Not saying we can't go beyond that if we understand the problem. — Mark Nyquist
You seem certain of this. Is this an article of faith? Or do you have evidence for this? Is that evidence conclusive? — bert1
order for science to do this, there must be in place at least some working concept of epistemic relations that is grounded in observational discovery. I can't imagine. — Constance
Integrated information theory is a stab at creating a theory grounded in direct experience. It's a beginning. — frank
: S knows P is the issue. One cannot disentangle P from justification, and it really looks like P and the justification are the same thing — Constance
Then, working with a physical model seems hopeless. I actually suspect that the brain does not produce conscious experience, but rather conditions it. Experience exceeds the physical delimitations of the physical object, the brain. Call it spirit?? — Constance
The beginning of a theory of consciousness would just start with guessing at what kind of system could produce the experience of gazing straight ahead, being aware of sights and sounds in a seamless unity. — frank
That science has not explained. I see no reason to believe it can't. — T Clark
The really hard problem of consciousness is the problem of experience. When we think and perceive, there is a whir of information-processing, but there is also a subjective aspect. As Nagel (1974) has put it, there is something it is like to be a conscious organism. This subjective aspect is experience. When we see, for example, we experience visual sensations: the felt quality of redness, the experience of dark and light, the quality of depth in a visual field. Other experiences go along with perception in different modalities: the sound of a clarinet, the smell of mothballs. Then there are bodily sensations, from pains to orgasms; mental images that are conjured up internally; the felt quality of emotion, and the experience of a stream of conscious thought. What unites all of these states is that there is something it is like to be in them. All of them are states of experience. — David Chalmers, Facing Up to the Hard Problem
It assumes the separation of subject and object, and attempts to arrive at objective descriptions of measurable entities. And the mind is not among those entities. — Wayfarer
I don't want to get into a long discussion about how science has to proceed. I will say that there is no reason the mind would not be among entities amenable for study by science. You and Constance are just waving your arms and promoting a ghost in the machine with no basis except that you can't imagine anything else. — T Clark
Can you know what it will feel like to be a bat without being a bat yourself? — Philosophim
we don't even know what a theory which explains it would look like — hypericin
we cannot conceive how a cascade of biological processes can lead to the observed symptoms of consciousness, because we cannot conceive how any physical process can lead to consciousness. — hypericin
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