Reading the Dialogues as Fiction. Way to go, Plato :sparkle: — Amity
So, perhaps in that sense 'Socrates' was a martyr to Plato's cause.
— Amity
Yes, so says – dramatizes – Plato. Myth-making PR. :up: — 180 Proof
Given his deep suspicion of poetry, I doubt Plato wrote his Dialogues, dramatic and stylized as they may be, to be read only or principally as 'literature' – for their literary qualities. I agree with (platonist) Iris Murdoch's differentiation of philosophical texts and literary texts, and the different implications for reading them (pardon if you're familiar with this video, I've posted it recently elsewhere):I've been wondering how you and others read or would re-read any of Plato's Dialogues as literature.
For example: How to Read 'The Symposium'. — Amity
I agree with (platonist) Iris Murdoch's differentiation of philosophical texts and literary text, and the different implications for reading them (pardon if you're familiar with this video, I've posted it recently elsewhere)[...]
What do you think? — 180 Proof
Maybe philosophy is a different kind of fiction. — Shawn
I haven't seen any other philosopher apart from Plato that utilizes any narrator or narration in their works. — Shawn
Well, I might be wrong about my previous comment with regard to continental's like Sarte or Camus. — Shawn
Did Plato glorify the historical Socrates or himself? — Amity
What do you think? — 180 Proof
(3:54)... the aim of philosophy is to clarify and the aim of literature is to mystify.
... only or principally as 'literature' – for their literary qualities. — 180 Proof
Murdoch says that philosophy should develop a moral or philosophical psychology that provides the terms in which to understand and characterize the substantial self to which she gives center stage, displacing the existentialist/analytic (which she sometimes calls “existentialist-behavioristic”) freely choosing will. (SEP Iris Murdoch)
As to the education of the philosopher - escape from the cave means to free oneself from all puppet-masters, all makers of images, be they poets, sophists, politicians, theologians, and even philosophers. — Fooloso4
Other people may well be unaware that all who actually engage in philosophy aright are practising nothing other than dying and being dead. (Phaedo 64a)
I think Plato the puppet-master is well aware that there will always be those who fool themselves into believing that having read about the cave that they have thereby escaped it.
It should be noted that there are several stages on the road to freedom from the cave. The image of a transcendent reality outside the cave remains a shadow on the cave wall. Perhaps the best we can do is to become aware of the image-makers, those who shape our opinions, and not mistake our images of the truth for the truth itself. — Fooloso4
As to the question of martyrdom and guilt, escape from the cave is escape from the city. Socrates was a citizen of the city in the double sense of place or Chora. — Fooloso4
Socrates: Evils, Theodorus, can never be done away with, for the good must always come from the contrary; nor have they any place in the divine world, but they must needs haunt this region of our mortal nature. — Theaetetus, 176a, translated by Cornford
Therefore we ought to try to escape from earth to the dwelling of the gods as quickly as we can, and to escape is to become like God ...
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.