I don't understand what you are asking. Do you or do you not accept that some people are colour-blind; that the colours they see things to be are not the colours that you see things to be? If so then you accept that direct realism fails; it cannot be the case that both you and the colour blind person directly see the apple's "real" colour and that you see different colours.
That's exactly the point. The structure of your experience is one thing, the mind-independent nature of the world is another thing, and it's the structure of your experience that informs you, not the mind-independent nature of the world. You can't bypass your blurry vision to see the mind-independent nature of the world around you.
I think this whole debate is better thought of in terms of "mediated" vs. "unmediated" perception. We run the risk of saying funny things like I indirectly see a tree outside my window. — Manuel
I think this whole debate is better thought of in terms of "mediated" vs. "unmediated" perception. — Manuel
In terms of intentionality I'm talking to (and seeing) my parents, but given the physics and mechanics of external objects and light and sound and the central nervous system, the phenomenology of experience is indirect. — Michael
We know that the color-blind person sees it differently because his biology is different. We needn’t assume that something about the apple is different. Simple. Direct realism is maintained. — NOS4A2
The “character of their experience” is not different because no such property exists, biologically or otherwise. — NOS4A2
:up:we both have limited access and connection to the same world, which is not therefore "internal". — unenlightened
we have this thing as the processor, and it doesn't touch the world around it, ever. It's safe inside a blood/brain barrier. — frank
Yes it does. It’s what differs between the experience of the colour blind man and the typical man. It’s the seeing differently. We’re not just behavioural machines that respond to stimulus. There’s an inner quality to experience, a “what it is it like to be” aspect that distinguishes us from p-zombies.
What it is like to be color-blind is what it is like to have the biology conducive to color blindness. We don’t need to insert sense-data, experience, qualia, and other figments between perceiver and perceived to account for these differences. — NOS4A2
Colours and smells are not mind-independent properties of objects but are products of brain activity that result from (usually) external stimulation. — Michael
This seems problematic to say. Let take a simple scientific definition of color. “Color is that portion of the visible spectrum of light that is reflected back from a surface. The amount of light that a surface reflects or absorbs determines its color.” Notice in this definition there is no appeal to mind or brain. Light is not being produces by the brain/mind, but is independently being produce outside the brain/mind. — Richard B
Color Primitivist Realism is the view that there are in nature colors, as ordinarily understood, i.e., colors are simple intrinsic, non-relational, non-reducible, qualitative properties. They are qualitative features of the sort that stand in the characteristic relations of similarity and difference that mark the colors; they are not micro-structural properties or reflectances, or anything of the sort. There is no radical illusion, error or mistake in color perception (only commonplace illusions): we perceive objects to have the colors that they really have.
“Color is that portion of the visible spectrum of light that is reflected back from a surface. The amount of light that a surface reflects or absorbs determines its color.” — Richard B
So the substance, as I see it, is either there is something going in my brain/mind that plays a massive role in my experience of the object, or there is minimal activity going on inside. — Manuel
We have direct, but mediated access to objects through representations. What then are we to do with indirect? — Manuel
Even if someone called themselves an indirect realist, I don't know what that means — Manuel
...a colour blind person and I can both look at the same thing... — Michael
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