Quite a sweeping generalization! — BC
I have a typical formal education - bachelors degree and a masters degree. Quite a bit of the bachelor degree education was good instruction. I liked it. I learned quite a bit. The masters program was a credential generator--not a fraud, but not very good, either. — BC
I have known a few self-taught individuals, and their intellectual accomplishments are impressive. But not everyone has the talent, early on, to guide their own education. I certainly didn't. — BC
A lot of what I have learned between graduating from college and retiring, I learned through my own effort. — BC
I certainly didn't. Most people don't. That's why we "educate". — BC
Education is not 'intervention'; it is a basic necessity to all intelligent life-forms. — Vera Mont
I wouldn't recommend setting a young wolf free in the wild without teaching it how to hunt and how to relate to other wolves. I wouldn't recommend setting up shop as a carpenter, without first learning how to use a saw, an adze and a chisel. — Vera Mont
I do advocate for safe, clean, respectful and inclusive public schools from kindergarten through college, trade and technical school and university, accessible to all students, at all levels. — Vera Mont
I didn't say one word in approval of the current state of public education in the disunited states; I may have implied a few against it. You seem to assume it's the only kind of education in existence or the realm of possibility. — Vera Mont
I didn't say a word against improving the working conditions or standard of living for working people; you seem to think having access to education somehow impedes those efforts, rather than enhancing them.
I don't know why you think that, and I hold forth little chance of discovering it. — Vera Mont
As above, do you have any grounds for this claim — Isaac
Education improves job prospects. — Isaac
The myth that education leads to better employment (overall) does however, act as distraction to real change in those low-paid jobs, which is why conditions and pay have stagnated for those workers for decades. — Isaac
People like you keep lending succour to the idea that they can merely 'educate' themselves out of that labour pool and so solve their own problem. — Isaac
But yes, I suspect your blind political bias will probably prevent you from understanding that argument. — Isaac
Do you have any cause to believe that, have you tested it, or read of anyone having done so? — Isaac
Is your ground for believing it sufficient to imprison children against their will and punish them for failure to comply? — Isaac
Schools have lost some of their raison d'être; mass media have had 24/7 access to children for a good 60 years — BC
I quickly discovered that I was altogether NOT cut out to teach high school students. — BC
Yes. — Vera Mont
Education improves job prospects. — Isaac
Not necessarily. — Vera Mont
No, that's not why. — Vera Mont
Many studies have shown conclusively, definitively, that lacking basic skills... — BC
Do you care to share it? — Isaac
It sometimes doesn't even do that. — Isaac
Again, care to share your reasons? — Isaac
Students learn, teachers teach. — Isaac
No one needs formal education, it's a myth designed to produce compliant little consumers. — Isaac
might want to save the rhetoric/rambling for ehh "less critical audiences"? — jorndoe
Cited? Do you what a citation looks like? It isn't "watch a documentary". — Isaac
One could think of them as reciprocal rather than as opposed. — BC
I've given you explanations, newspaper articles, quotes, references and further clarifications. — Vera Mont
You've not provided a single citation in support of your contention that we ought teach critical thinking skills. — Isaac
I've questioned the necessity of 'teaching' as opposed to self-directed learning. You've not provided a single citation countering that position. — Isaac
could — Isaac
would — Isaac
One of the problems I see in the usual practice of education is that many teachers themselves are not actively engaged in learning -- not just in their field, but in other fields as well. — BC
I've questioned the necessity of 'teaching' as opposed to self-directed learning. — Isaac
most children need help in acquiring the most basic information, like the sounds associated with the alphabet, the manual ability to generate writing, counting, basic arithmetic, and the like. — BC
If you think that self-directed learning won't occur in a typical school, you are probably right. — BC
Why do you think that? — Isaac
Yes, that's basically my point. If we want children to develop critical thinking skills then absolutely the worst thing we can do to bring that about is further impose on their freedom by force-feeding them lessons on it before making regurgitate it for grades like show ponies doing tricks.. — Isaac
Apparently the development of children is outside your field of knowledge. — BC
How many children do you know who have self-taught themselves from pre-literacy and innumeracy, on up to being able to read a newspaper and balance a checkbook? — BC
People who have time to learn and think along their own lines, may very well conclude that there is something defective and oppressive about the ruling class. The ruling class has found that it's nicer to keep us proles busy than having to suppress riots all the time. — BC
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.