I'm challenging this framework itself. — plaque flag
The human applies the concept smoke. — plaque flag
Then I think it's disingenuous of you to characterise your position as being direct realism. — Michael
It's a deeper point than that, to do with the fact that in situations of perceiving we are always already linguistic, because of what we are. — Jamal
I claim that we talk about the tree and not an image of the tree. — plaque flag
What's a concept? All you appear to have done is replaced the notion of phenomenal character with that of cognition. I'm not sure how that helps you avoid the "private" aspect that you take so much issue with. — Michael
As a simple example, I can think of a number and not tell you (or anyone). I don't have to perform any kind of overt action to do this. I just think it.
Do you accept this? — Michael
I claim that 'just thinking' a number not truly but only relatively 'immaterial' and private. — plaque flag
The point is that it involves no overt action that ordinary humans going about their ordinary lives cannot recognize as happening. — Michael
You can say that thinking of a number is reducible to brain activity if you want. — Michael
Sure. As a practical matter, for now, you can mutter to yourself so quietly that nobody hears what you say. — plaque flag
I don't "mutter" to myself when I think. I just think. The mute can think. — Michael
How is this related to my claim that concepts are norms ? — plaque flag
I can see things without saying anything, and without performing any covert action that others can recognize. Even if it's not private in principle, it's private in practice. — Michael
I said that humans don't always have to apply concepts when they see. — plaque flag
Good. Then can you finally stop talking about language and start talking about seeing? — Michael
To talk about seeing is just as much to talk about talk about seeing. — plaque flag
The problem of perception concerns making sense of 1), not 2). — Michael
We can talk about the world and just be wrong sometimes. — plaque flag
These 'private experiences' are tooth fairies. The 'mindindependent world' is Candyland. — plaque flag
I think Kant gets something right. — plaque flag
That we have to use language to talk about perception isn't that when talking about perception we talk about language. — Michael
Which world are you referring to, the world as we perceive it, or the world as it is independent of our perception of it. — RussellA
Are you saying you have no private experiences, you stub your toe and feel no pain ? — RussellA
Are you saying the Universe didn't exist for the 13.8 billion years before humans appeared on Earth, 315,000 years ago ? — RussellA
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