Interesting. I think I agree. Can you say some more? — Tom Storm
The belief in something transcendent is the essence of religion as I would define it. (Note, I draw a distinction between thinking the transcendental and believing in some form of transcendence). — Janus
Religious thinking is always hierarchical thinking.
Obviously, people can believe in something transcendent without belonging to a religion, without knowing anything about any religion. I suppose you would call that a personal religion? — praxis
Yeah Richard Dawkins would say that. — Wayfarer
Obviously, people can believe in something transcendent without belonging to a religion, without knowing anything about any religion. I suppose you would call that a personal religion?
Religious thinking is always hierarchical thinking.
Which indicates that its essence is about order and control. — praxis
I wonder too what counts as transcendence? Is intelligibility itself transcendent? Are the logical axioms? Maths? Morality? Do we go by Kant, Aristotle or Wittgenstein on this one? — Tom Storm
Is intelligibility itself transcendent? — Tom Storm
The expression "to be, is to be intelligible" is a fundamental concept in Platonism. The phrase refers to the idea that the ultimate reality of the world is not the physical objects that we experience through our senses, but rather the intelligible forms or ideas that objects instantiate.
According to Plato, the material world is constantly changing and imperfect, while Forms are not subject to decay. As such they are the only real objects of knowledge and are what make things in the physical world intelligible or understandable. In other words, the physical objects we see and touch are only shadows or imitations of the perfect Forms, which exist in a realm beyond the physical.
Therefore, when we say that something "is," we mean that it participates in the intelligible Form or idea of that thing. In Platonism, knowledge is the process of understanding the Forms, and the highest form of knowledge is knowledge of the Form of the Good.
Dawkins would denigrate religion as being something like a mind-parasite. — Wayfarer
But if you go into it, you discover it's really a very difficult path to actually follow. Not that people can't follow it, but there's a lot of room for error and endless scope for self-delusion — Wayfarer
There's another level of similarity, though, between the two traditions, which is that the philosophical schools that early Christianity absorbed, such as neoplatonism, and also some of the gnostic sects adjacent to Christianity, likewise taught austere philosophical and contemplative practices with a view to acheiving divine union — Wayfarer
The point being, the realisation of higher planes of being, which permeates all of those forms of culture, is 'evidential', in the sense that for those who practice within those cultures, there is said to be the attainment of insight (jñāna or gnosis). Whereas in our technocratic age (and here on this forum) all of that is stereotyped under the umbrella of mere belief. — Wayfarer
I wonder too what counts as transcendence? — Tom Storm
Thus I am a religious person? — praxis
Some even question whether Daoism or Buddhism qualify as religions. — Janus
I think that one part of avoiding Nietzsche's nihilistic hell is to find a way to have rituals and traditions in a non-religious world. — Christoffer
I can't say I personally want to be involved in community type rituals, contemplation, traditions or meditation. — Tom Storm
Do we have evidence that people were less stressed or happier, or more connected to what matters a hundred, two hundred years ago, when religion still had power in the west? I knew three of my grandparents pretty well. They were born in the late 1800s. They did not seem to think so. — Tom Storm
Is there any compelling demonstration that people's lives are better with ritual and contemplation? How would we demonstrate this? — Tom Storm
Would lives not be generally enhanced if people just slowed down the pace and stopped social media and eating shit? (Such dreams are possibly only a middle class option.) Is it perhaps the case that meditation's benefits are down to the person not being at McDonald's, swiping away on their phone, or similar? — Tom Storm
I'd be interested to learn who is actually experiencing Nietzsche's nihilistic hell. — Tom Storm
On the whole, connection to people seems a better guarantee of enhanced mental health and happiness from what I've seen. — Tom Storm
The materialistic consumer neoliberalist hell that we have is a result of this nihilism. — Christoffer
Some seem to think that the development of the state, capitalism, etc., lead to this nihilism. Not the other way around. — praxis
Social dance at a neighborhood nightclub, with a group of people dancing to the same beat in coordinated patterns, can be as zen as sitting still with a group at a temple. — praxis
It’s all there, we’re saturated in meaning, purpose, community… anything a church could offer. To think that we need to be spoon fed like children is ridiculous, and actually impairs growth by design, because religion is designed to make followers dependent. — praxis
Let's have more things that bring people together physically around things that people love, good food, contemplative discussions (note debates), experiences, games parties, live events etc. — Christoffer
All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone.
- Blaise Pascal.
Many don’t realize the nature of religion. — praxis
Dharma and religion have overlaps but they’re not exactly the same. — Wayfarer
If removing any supernatural and spiritual elements then they are closer to what I described about the essential need for rituals, traditions, and awe in a non-religious way of life. — Christoffer
Is there any compelling demonstration that people's lives are better with ritual and contemplation? How would we demonstrate this? — Tom Storm
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