If you're not one of the popular girls or boys you're somehow less of a girl or boy. This is an observable psychological phenomenon. Where insults such as "coward", "loser", or "freak" come from. — Outlander
I don't want the State or someone representative of the State to start running at them with a bottle of pills in one hand and a scalpel in the other telling a small child "there's something wrong with them" and as their parent I'm either morally, or if some have their way, perhaps even legally, abusive if I stand in the way of such. — Outlander
So as to avoid a misdiagnosis and as a result unnecessary series of life-changing medical procedures that only worsen or perhaps even create a condition that could otherwise be remedied or very well never existed in the first place. — Outlander
such surgery is frightening and soooooo expensive and sooooooo painful and soooooo disruptive to your life that many trans folks just decide that on balance, they would rather live with the anatomy they have, than go through what they would have to go through to fully transition. They also talked about those trans folks they knew who have fully transitioned and the doubts, regrets, trauma's they went through along the way, but that they are now so much happier — universeness
If i choose to also undergo surgery, it is not because I believe that I was born in the wrong biological body but that my social environment isn’t ready to recognize my gender without the help of obvious signaling from me that simplifies the issue for them. — Joshs
The second way of justifying surgery depends on my belief that, independent of the feedback of my social
community, I was born in the wrong body.
This belief, from the vantage of embodied approaches in psychology, is a bit incoherent, because it assumes the ability to separate physical body from psychological gender. Embodied thinking argues that the physical, the psychological and the social are intertwined so completely that any attempt to locate something like a purely physical aspect of sexuality is nonsensical. Whatever our psychological gender happens to be, this gender defines, shapes , animates and performs our biological sex through how we walk , talk, gesture , perceive and sense our body. The body only exists as what it is in the way it is used , animated , performed. We can never be in the
wrong body because we are not in a body like a thing in a container, we enact a body. — Joshs
I do suspect, however, that if the first approach is right, then eventually trans surgery will fade away as the social structure becomes more aware and accepting of gender fluidity, and one no longer has to feel one is born into the wrong social body. — Joshs
This exists regardless of personal sexual identity, in fact most 'bully' situations I witnessed or heard about during my time as a child or during my career as a teacher, had nothing to do with sexual identity, some did, but very few, by comparison. — universeness
the imagery you are pushing — universeness
Despite my desires for this thread to cool off some. — Outlander
Do you have examples of trans folks expressing that they want to be different? I have heard them on-line and in call in shows, say they want to be who they are.I said trauma and being ostracized leads to pain, confusion, and wanting "to be different" or being forced to believe you are. — Outlander
This thread is about trans folks yes? and their identity, Not bullies and their rationale.Why does someone 'bully' someone? — Outlander
My attack is on the message, not the messenger.I appreciate your defense of the vulnerable. But there's no need to attack the messenger. — Outlander
No, your attempts to avoid what you claim you wanted to avoid fell far short of 'perfectly,' imo.Furthermore, please do not accuse me of being 'irresponsible' and 'pushing [intolerant] imagery' again when I have in fact taken great pains to avoid doing so and know I have avoided such perfectly. — Outlander
I believe that there is a fatal conflict between women's rights and identity and the concept of a trans woman. — Andrew4Handel
fatal conflict — Andrew4Handel
drastic mistake — Andrew4Handel
gross misogyny — Andrew4Handel
flagrantly giving away — Andrew4Handel
makes me very angry — Andrew4Handel
I don't think your outrage has or is going to convince anyone here, do you? — Baden
And I do believe in the concept and value of righteous anger. The question then is which side is right to be angry and why? And it is a case of who is angry and determined and persuasive enough to get the most attention and influence. — Andrew4Handel
People are misrepresenting other people's concerns on this so it is pointless having a discussion based on false premises. — Andrew4Handel
I think transgender and transexual are two quite different goals.
I think there are many trans folk that feel they have to do the physical transitions that they can do, in order to become 'happy' or 'true' or perhaps even 'real.' — universeness
Transgender is the umbrella term that includes transsexuals — Joshs
I agree entirely that the surgery can lead to greater happiness, regardless of whether one believes in a biologistic or social explanation transgender, or some combination of the two. — Joshs
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