A discussion of the contributions of the Christian religion to Enlightenment values and the rights of individuals--especially those of women--seems to me out of place in a thread about incels. It's true, though, that the conduct of many Catholic priests serve as examples of the potentially harmful results of sexual frustration, though primarily to children, not women. So perhaps there is a connection of a sort. — Ciceronianus
I quite understand that you'd rather not be an advocate for the claims that were made about Christianity. There's no reason to be concerned about that, really. It's quite alright. — Ciceronianus
Shame is something that the society has put on to people by condemnation... which in the modern case is then viewed as oppression and hence the "positive" victimhood. I'll try to explain what I mean by this.So the interesting thought here, which I think someone else has expressed in this discussion already, is that what is lacking is shame. — Jamal
And I'm interested in what creates incels. How do you go from being normal to the resentment pit?
9h — fdrake
Well, why not then start with the obvious: the internet. The ability there to find your own echo chamber. — ssu
To be consistent with that standard, you'll have to agree it's ok for me to claim to be a member of the black power movement. — T Clark
Do you see a way to thread the needle here without steering into right wing nut job territory? We were also pretty close when trying to humanise "pre-incels". — fdrake
What, other than a tendency toward self-destructive and self-loathing behavior, is keeping these guys from succeeding at least at minimal levels? Are they as inept in their occupational lives as they are in their after-hours lives?
Are they just surprised to discover Thoreau's insight--most men lead lives of quiet desperation--actually applies to them? Or is their problem that their desperation just isn't quiet enough? — BC
Probably the same reason flat earthers ramped up out of no where. — Benj96
From the perspective of a gay man long gone from the dating scene, it does seem like these (mostly young?) straight men have a bad case of self-loathing, which in itself is odd and surprising-- that straight white men would be filled with self-loathing--if that's what it is. — BC
The healthy way to deal with that lack of success is to try harder, seek help from friends and professionals, join social groups and other such things. But many aren't healthy and many lash out. — Hanover
They were cancelled? — Jamal
It's because our system doesn't assure success for too many people. — Hanover
Ensure success? What, like women finding partners is a matter of men performing a role? Where is their agency and choice! Male entitlement belongs in the dustbin of history, this is not a good look.
Since the community that these young men feel is most important in their lives is made up of remote individuals who are free to ratchet up the extreme opinions without any personal consequences, they never meet the healthy opposition that they would have met in the old-style community of people, most of whom they would not have chosen to associate with. — Jamal
Part of it is sweeping generalisation and essentialising. Someone mutters a mere hint of anti-feminist or mysoginistic rhetoric and boom, people jump to conclusions like hopscotch. One becomes defined by what may have been a singular momentary thought or consideration.
The other part is attitude. If some does indeed have a consistent, enduring and caustically negative attitude towards dating or is preoccupied with lamenting over the quality of their sex life, people like to have words for such phenomena especially if they have seen a lot of people with the same behaviour. We by our very nature love to categorise everything from people to places to things into near little groups. — Benj96
Incels: a misogynist hate movement so extreme they approve of enslaving and raping women. Living embodiments of rape culture as unenlightened and @Baden astutely point out. — fdrake
what makes so many cis het white men hate themselves — fdrake
Really? I haven't explored that online grotto. I just thought incels were disgruntled angry men who can't get a shag. They really want to enslave and rape women? — bert1
Incels: a misogynist hate movement so extreme they approve of enslaving and raping women. Living embodiments of rape culture as unenlightened and @Baden astutely point out.
Bloke who gets frustrated with lack of romance in their life: not a threat, could fester if they don't check themselves. — fdrake
My Internal Twitter is screaming at you for this.
Ensure success? What, like women finding partners is a matter of men performing a role? Where is their agency and choice! Male entitlement belongs in the dustbin of history, this is not a good look.
I don't believe my Internal Twitter. My only reason for telling you what it says is to highlight what happens if you say things like that in public. You get uncharitably shat on... — fdrake
@BCIncels demand vaginas like wheelchair users demand ramps, and parents of infants demand changing facilities, and black people demand fair policing. If one felt great sympathy with this deprived group, one might suggest state funded sexual social workers, to fill their needs. No one seems to have suggested that here , though. — unenlightened
1. Is it true?
How many of the incels are really celibate, is it really involuntary, and how can you tell, — Vera Mont
There is a point where compassion is not the appropriate response. — Baden
Any alternative groups are easily defined. Eg. Feminism exists much more easily and effectively as a movement in counter to an overtly mysoginistic society than it would if the society was already completely equal between sexes. If every had equal and fair treatment, what need would there be for any movements? — Benj96
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