I can tell you his statements were made in earnest. Tennis has very very competitive cultures which surround them, and while this is a part of where the "controversy" originates (the human desire to competitively compare and contrast, and the resulting dilemma when the top men are compared to the top women), it's also why there is such a clear divide in the first place (concerning tennis and soccer specifically). — VagabondSpectre

Interesting. There is also a long history of the "battle of the sexes" in tennis (e.g. the Bobby Riggs vs. Billy Jean King match) that may still pervade the culture of the sport.

you are clearly repressing your sexual attraction for Serena.

you are clearly repressing your sexual attraction for Serena. — geospiza

>:O >:O >:O If you believe that, you're absolutely crazy. That's just like saying I don't want my wife to have sex with other men because I'm insecure >:O

Damn some people really can't think, can they? :s Nietzsche did have a point when he wrote about some slave morality overcoming master morality and ruling society. Clearly slave morality has won! Thinking Serena's picture is ugly must certainly mean I'm attracted to her! How the slaves have inverted our values such that strengths and virtues have become weaknesses and sins...

Yes, there are exceptions and in-betweens. Bigger female birds of prey likely helps the mother to defend the nest and to spend the calories on egg production...

But this is exactly my point: genetics (which evolved to suit environmental factors, such as mate selection and the necessities of child-rearing) very reliably expresses itself in the average characteristics of many animal species...

With humans, we're so in-between that we're better understood as having a genetic capacity for both extremes of reproductive strategies (pair-bonding vs tournament) and have a spectrum of individuals in-between.

So when we then look at how traits and chracteristics are spread out across the sexes, we can start by looking at the "pair-bonding" or shared-trait individuals (males and females who appear very similar in weight/height/strength etc...) and then we can look at the other segments of population which diverge toward sexually dimorphic extremes.

While it's possible for an individual female to exhibit very masculine traits (or a male to exhibut very feminine traits), the numbers statistically favor men for masculine traits and women for feminine traits.

This statistical spread is why on average at any given moment the strongest athlete will be male, and why it will be a very reliable expectation that the group of top athletes will be composed mostly or completely of men.

Don't deny it. You also are clearly in love with Hillary.

Interesting. There is also a long history of the "battle of the sexes" in tennis (e.g. the Bobby Riggs vs. Billy Jean King match) that may still pervade the culture of that sport. — geospiza

The sport was so much less competitive and developed when they had that match that the genetic disadvantage wasn't so hard to overcome. (there wasn't this massive pool of stand-out male specimens training for life and competing for millions).

I tried to find out if bobby smoked, all I could find was this ad:



(Bobby Riggs, top left)

Could you imagine a modern top tennis player smoking cigarettes?

Remember, I'm not saying women cannot be better at sports than men (i've tried to be very clear). Serena is better at tennis than 99.9999% of all males (or something like it), but statistically the athleticism required to be Serena-level-good will show up in outlying males more often than outlying females.

(Y)

Don't deny it. You also are clearly in love with Hillary. — geospiza

Yes, absolutely:


She's totally a LUNATIC.

I read this science fiction story with a villain that sort of reminds me of you. This scientist had invented a time machine. He had a drinking buddy who would go on right wing rants. The kind of person you roll your eyes at but figure they are just venting their frustrations at life.

Well, the scientist had lost his wife or something, and decided that he had no more reason to stick around, so he takes off and lands a couple thousand years in the future. The human race has changed quite a bit, and so has society. I don't think you would approve. Everyone is a genderless genetic clone with the same status, and there are no authorities. Nobody needs to work. Nobody tells anyone else to do anything. It's all voluntary.

Anyway, our hero happens across his bar friend who had gotten a hold of his plans back in the past and hand an engineer to make another time machine. I guess the machine was geared to go the same amount into the future. So our right wing villain was none too happy with how things turned out, and thus set about trying to teach inequality and social hierarchies to the future humans, while creating a terrorist plot to bring the whole society down, in order to restart things with hard work and inequality. Of course the villain would get to be king of the new society.

To be honest though, I wasn't much of a fan of that future either (I don't want everyone to be the same), although I disagreed with the villain of the story.

The sport was so much less competitive and developed when they had that match that the genetic disadvantage wasn't so hard to overcome. (there wasn't this massive pool of stand-out male specimens training for life and competing for millions). — VagabondSpectre

That ad is too funny.

The other factor to remember is that Riggs was well over the hill at the time of his match with King. It was perhaps more illustrative of an age vs. youth contest than of male vs. female. Even for ultra-masculine males, the advantages of superior genetics (if that is in fact the differentiating variable) diminish with age.

I certainly don't want to see Serena or any other person naked pretty much, because why would I? — Agustino

Hate the beach, then?

Bu bu but Geospiza, some women are "airbrushed, photoshopped distortions of reality".

A little bird told you that, I suppose.

Bu bu but Geospiza, some women are "airbrushed, photoshopped distortions of reality". — Bitter Crank

Not on closer inspection. Except maybe the outlying ones mentioned by

Not a little bird, but a big mean Gyrfalcon.

If women weren't vastly inferior to their male counterparts in almost every sport, we wouldn't have gendered sporting events in the first place. — Heister Eggcart

Right there is the elephant in the room. But that is hardly surprising since most sports were created to showcase male abilities.

So what (if anything) is the difficulty that some people will have with McEnroe's comments? Perhaps it is that he is too strident with his remarks and seemingly insensitive to some of the negative overtones.

Looks ugly to me, does that make me sexist and/or racist? — Heister Eggcart

Um, well are you saying that she's ugly because she's a black woman? If so, then I think you might be guilty on both counts.

No.

Um, well are you saying that she's ugly because she's a black woman? If so, then I think you might be guilty on both counts. — geospiza

Shirley, there are black women who are ugly, just as there are white women who are ugly. The beauty or ugliness of a woman will probably have at least something to do with her racial make up. Would one be a racist for saying so? Or a sexist?

I read this science fiction story with a villain that sort of reminds me of you. This scientist had invented a time machine. He had a drinking buddy who would go on right wing rants. The kind of person you roll your eyes at but figure they are just venting their frustrations at life.

Well, the scientist had lost his wife or something, and decided that he had no more reason to stick around, so he takes off and lands a couple thousand years in the future. The human race has changed quite a bit, and so has society. I don't think you would approve. Everyone is a genderless genetic clone with the same status, and there are no authorities. Nobody needs to work. Nobody tells anyone else to do anything. It's all voluntary.

Anyway, our hero happens across his bar friend who had gotten a hold of his plans back in the past and hand an engineer to make another time machine. I guess the machine was geared to go the same amount into the future. So our right wing villain was none too happy with how things turned out, and thus set about trying to teach inequality and social hierarchies to the future humans, while creating a terrorist plot to bring the whole society down, in order to restart things with hard work and inequality. Of course the villain would get to be king of the new society.

To be honest though, I wasn't much of a fan of that future either (I don't want everyone to be the same), although I disagreed with the villain of the story. — Marchesk

I recommend you put the crack pipe down. I see no resemblance between myself and your villain.

Hate the beach, then? — John

I don't hate it, I just don't go to the beach to see naked people >:O . And even on the beach they're not completely naked.

Why do I give a damn about candour when it's ugly?! Can someone please explain this to me? — Agustino

My dear Agustino, are you suggesting that Serena is "ugly" because she is pregnant?

My dear Agustino, are you suggesting that Serena is "ugly" because she is pregnant? — ArguingWAristotleTiff

I'm suggesting that the pregnant body of a woman isn't meant to be beautiful, and yes, I don't consider that picture of Serena to be beautiful, but rather ugly. Why is it ugly? A combination of factors, including the fact that the pregnant body is used as if it were meant to be beautiful in order to send a political message. I don't consider this to be art at all.

Now there's nothing wrong with the pregnant body, it has its own symbolism and meaning to offer, but it's not in beauty, but rather in nourishment, protection, etc. I think a picture like this just defames that.

The beauty or ugliness of a woman will probably have at least something to do with her racial make up. Would one be a racist for saying so? Or a sexist? — Bitter Crank

I'm not sure I understand. Judging beauty by reference to race seems obviously racist to me. How can you avoid the racism in a statement like, "that woman is ugly because of her nappy hair and big butt typical of black women"?

I'm suggesting that the pregnant body of a woman isn't meant to be beautiful — Agustino

Do you know the difference between beauty and sexual appeal?

Do you know the difference between beauty and sexual appeal? — geospiza

Yes, beauty is more general than sexual appeal. Also sexual appeal can be elicited in ways that are independent of beauty, but rather dependent on social standards.

Yes, beauty is more general than sexual appeal. Also sexual appeal can be elicited in ways that are independent of beauty, but rather dependent on social standards. — Agustino

Then what is behind your assertion that "the pregnant body of a woman isn't meant to be beautiful"?

Then what is behind your assertion that "the pregnant body of a woman isn't meant to be beautiful"? — geospiza

Exactly what it says? :s

Exactly what it says? :s — Agustino

But it doesn't say. What is the teleology directing a woman's beauty?

What is the teleology directing a woman's beauty? — geospiza

Are you talking about physical beauty, moral beauty, intellectual beauty or what? :s