:rofl:

I'm talking about your outrage towards Biden not me. And once again, I don't need to show another definition of fascism when yours doesn't conform with any of the definitions I already shared earlier. To summarise:

"you cherry-picked your definition"
"no I didn't"
"proceeds to give a list of 10+ other definitions none of which conform to the original"
"you must give a definition"
"I just gave 10+"
"you cannot criticize mine without picking one"

:up:

To be fair, while the US obviously isn't fascist, it shares an uncomfortable number of features commonly attributed to fascism.

Nationalism, militarism, belief in American supremacy, interwovenness of state and economy, growing authoritarian tendencies, etc.

I see where people get the idea from.

No, not voting for Biden and voting for Cornel West is voting for Cornel West, just like not voting for Cornel West is not the equivalent of not voting for Trump — Jack Rogozhin

Do you understand the concept of a someone running as a third party splitting the vote which ends up helping the opposition to win? It's the same concept here. If I voted for Cornel West in the general election, that is a vote that could have helped Biden win against Trump. If it is close, enough votes for Cornel West (or someone else) could result in a Trump victory. That is what I mean.

Biden is a worse authoritarian than Trump.

No, Trump is worse by orders of magnitude. Trump wanted to make millions of votes for Biden not count in the 2020 election. That is Putin-level authoritarianism. What does a vote against Putin do in Russia? I feel bad for Russians. They don't have a legal means of getting Putin out of power. He's a dictator in all but name. The Russians have a veneer of democracy and hold elections, but they are a farce. You can't speak out against Putin, or criticize him. How are you supposed to run against him? Russians get imprisoned or pushed off of high buildings if they are too critical of Putin. I don't want that for the USA.

Definitely.

In other countries the parties promote younger politicians. The older politicians don't take the top jobs, but are OK once their stint on the political cutting edge is over. In my country the previous administration was a perfect example of this. By perhaps coincidence, the leftist parties along with the centrist party wanted to look young and feminine, and they all put as their party bosses fairly young women. The end result was a coalition administration of them that looked like this:


Those four are all leaders of their political parties. Of course, the parties are still male dominated and party activists are as old as anywhere, but it's the image that counts, I guess.

Yet it seems in America the dual-party system is so entrenched, that there seems to be a culture of older guys getting finally the top jobs after a long, loyal career for the party.

I mean, just look at them:

Do you understand the concept of a someone running as a third party splitting the vote which ends up helping the opposition to win? It's the same concept here. If I voted for Cornel West in the general election, that is a vote that could have helped Biden win against Trump. If it is close, enough votes for Cornel West (or someone else) could result in a Trump victory. That is what I mean. — GRWelsh

Yes, it is an erroneous concept. The vote is nobody's to spoil and nobody owns any vots. Also, if you voted for Cornel West in a general, that is a vote that could have helped Trump win against Biden.

No, Trump is worse by orders of magnitude. Trump wanted to make millions of votes for Biden not count in the 2020 election. That is Putin-level authoritarianism. — GRWelsh

I already showed Trump isn't worse than Biden, and Biden is worse in many ways than Trump. Biden and other Democrats spread the Russiagate lie to try to get Trump overthrown and make millions of Trump votes be negated

What does a vote against Putin do in Russia? I feel bad for Russians. They don't... — GRWelsh

This is irrelevant to our discussion, but indicative of a Russophobia that our media and the Democrats (and many Republicans) have fomented in the last six years


.

It's not Russophobia. I like Russians. I greatly admire the likes of Glazunov, Borodin, Rimsky-Korsakov, Glière, Doesteyevksi, Tolstoy and many others. A great people of many great artists. I don't fear Russians, I feel bad for them, because they are under the boot of a terrible man. Putin came to power in a dirty deal with Yeltsin. Putin's FSB planted bombs in Russian apartment buildings and blamed it on Chechen "terrorists." The fear he caused cemented his hold on the country, and all of the elections in Russia since then have been shams. This is relevant because Russia is now an authoritarian regime, and we all know it. It's exactly the sort of government we in the USA could end up with if we aren't careful, and let Trump win in 2024.

but indicative of a Russophobia that our media and the Democrats (and many Republicans) have fomented in the last six years — Jack Rogozhin

Why are you parroting Putinist propaganda? :roll:

Putin has managed to create much hate ^{(May 26, 2023; Aug 1, 2023)} etc, not the least in Ukraine ^{(Aug 9, 2023)}. FYI, it's come up a few times before.

Confusing Russophobia and anti-authoritarianism/anti-Putinism verges on accusing everyone of racism.

Why are you parroting Putinist propaganda? — jorndoe

I'm not. Why are you parroting CIA/MSM propaganda....remember Russiagate?

Putin has managed to create much hate (May 26, 2023; Aug 1, 2023) etc, not the least in Ukraine (Aug 9, 2023). FYI, it's come up a few times before. — jorndoe

More CIA/MSM propaganda...remember "Russian bounties"

Confusing Russophobia and anti-authoritarianism/anti-Putinism verges on accusing everyone of racism. — jorndoe

And I didn't do that. Why are you a Russophobe?

I'm not. — Jack Rogozhin

Yeah, you are. Just about verbatim.

Why are you a Russophobe? — Jack Rogozhin

I'm not. So, bare racism accusation. Tu quoque style at that.

I'm not.
— Jack Rogozhin

Yeah, you are. Just about verbatim. — jorndoe

No, I'm not, not in any way

Why are you a Russophobe?
— Jack Rogozhin

I'm not. So, bare racism accusation. Tu quoque style at that. — jorndoe

Yeah you are. Verbatim. And i made no racism accusation and you misused Tu Quoque

You can do better than this...or can you?

What country do you live in?

By all means, investigate the Bidens. If they're guilty of any crimes, let the evidence come out. Unlike many Trump supporters, I'm not going to deny Joe Biden is guilty of any wrongdoing without even looking at the evidence or reading the indictments. But the irony right now is that Republicans seems so concerned about family grift and Hunter allegedly making 5 million without a peep about Jared and Ivanka making 2 billion. Oh, grift and nepotism bothers you? Now, it bothers you a lot, but in 2016-2020 not so much.

Kushner’s investment firm got that 2 billion from the Saudis in 2021, after stepping away from politics and after Trump left office. I guess you got the dates wrong. Such a minor but illuminating detail.

According to Affinity Partners, Kushner’s company, the money is going to be invested in Isreali startups in a bid to normalize business relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel. I’m going to assume you know how investment works. The Saudis are likely aiming for a return on their investment, meaning they will get the money back and then some. Unlike Biden, there is no indication this money is going into Kushner’s pocket or to fund hookers and cocaine, or to curry favor from daddy, maybe by getting the government to fire prosecutors investigating the company. There is no indication Trump is involved at all.

My guess is they will investigate Kushner, just like they said they would back in 2022, and will do again in 2024. At any rate, the media sure made a big deal out of it, unlike the reticence towards their preferred candidate. But this isn’t because there is evidence of any impropriety on Kushner’s part. It’s to distract from Biden’s corruption.

Read my bio, champ

Who pays your salary?

Have you ever thought of emigrating to Russia?

Have you ever thought of joining the Azov Nazis?

right now that best option is the Green party and Cornel West — Jack Rogozhin

I like Cornell West too. Of all the candidates so far, he's my favorite.

In the sad state of American political duopoly, it's going to be a Biden/Trump rematch. Those, unfortunately, are most likely going to be the choices. I prefer Biden in office -- not because I like Biden, but because I like a lot of his administrators and more of his policies than Trump's.

The environment is a good example: would we have the IRA with Trump in office? Of course not. That's not to say it was what it should have been -- we needed much more than that. But it's better than going backwards.

I think the problem is that too much is made about voting, as if that's our sole political power. So people, understandably, want to vote their conscience. I used to think along these lines myself. But once I saw the real, everyday impacts of having, for example, a reasonable and sympathetic secretary of labor, or a competent NLRB, or a head of the EPA that isn't an oil lobbyist -- to say nothing of the money allocated for state and local site cleanups, solar and wind subsidies, etc., I think being pragmatic is more important.

Yes, Cornell West is the best candidate. I wish he would become president and I hope he gains momentum. But if it comes to a Biden/Trump rematch, I don't see how voting for Cornell, however noble, doesn't simply give Trump (by far the worst of all three) a better chance at winning.

In the sad state of American political duopoly, it's going to be a Biden/Trump rematch. Those, unfortunately, are most likely going to be the choices. I prefer Biden in office -- not because I like Biden, but because I like a lot of his administrators and more of his policies than Trump's. — Mikie

Sure, but we also have the choice to vote against both, work towards building a progressive third party, and get across progressive messaging neither duopoly candidate share. Since I find both Biden and Trump to be loathsome and unacceptable, doing that and voting Cornel West is the obvious choice

The environment is a good example: would we have the IRA with Trump in office? Of course not. That's not to say it was what it should have been -- we needed much more than that. But it's better than going backwards. — Mikie

We went backwards with Biden as he drilled more than trump, gave out more drilling licenses than Trump, pushed the horrendous Willow Project, and committed the worst act of eco-terrorism by OKing the sabotaging of the Nordstream pipeline

I think the problem is that too much is made about voting, as if that's our sole political power. So people, understandably, want to vote their conscience. — Mikie

If this is true, then you shouldn't worrry about people voting their conscience. Everyone should vote their conscience

Yes, Cornell West is the best candidate. I wish he would become president and I hope he gains momentum. But if it comes to a Biden/Trump rematch, I don't see how voting for Cornell, however noble, doesn't simply give Trump (by far the worst of all three) a better chance at winning. — Mikie

It doesn't give Trump a better chance as neither Biden nor Trump own West voters' votes, and a vote for West is a vote against Biden AND Trump

Sure, but we also have the choice to vote against both, work towards building a progressive third party — Jack Rogozhin

At the cost of electing Trump, I’m not sure it’s worth it. There’s ways to build a progressive movement beyond just voting. It starts in each state, and builds from there.

While Biden as a man might be repugnant and unacceptable, his appointments aren’t. In fact some are quite good.

We went backwards with Biden as he drilled more than trump, gave out more drilling licenses than Trump, pushed the horrendous Willow Project, and committed the worst act of eco-terrorism by OKing the sabotaging of the Nordstream pipeline — Jack Rogozhin

But in the last two years, they also passed the IRA and canceled the Keystone XL pipeline, strengthened car emission standards, etc. Actions at the SEC, EPA, energy, and interior have all been much better than under Trump — by any metric.

That’s not to say it’s perfect or satisfactory— just better than the prior administration. I think that’s obvious.

If this is true, then you shouldn't worrry about people voting their conscience. — Jack Rogozhin

Why? I didn’t say it isn’t important. It’s just not our sole political action. We should make sure we’re voting against the worst, ensuring the greatest impediment to our goals isn’t in office—then continue on with our work.

It doesn't give Trump a better chance as neither Biden nor Trump own West voters' votes, — Jack Rogozhin

Not owned, but most voting for West will have values and goals that will be much more likely to be obstructed (and in fact actively fought against) under a Trump administration than a Biden one. If we had ranked choice voting, I think Biden would come before Trump, in most cases.

That being said, these votes going to West (or staying home) simply gives Trump a better chance to win — at least in swing states. In Mass, it doesn’t matter much. In NH, it matters a great deal.

So I care about climate change. The IRA will help my neighbors and I get solar panels and heat pumps. That’s a good thing. Trump and the Republicans are literally running on dismantling all of that. If my voting for West just because it makes me feel better, ignoring the reality of a two-party system, comes at the real cost of electing Trump— I’ve shot myself in the foot.

Kind of touchy, aren't you? It was a serious question. You seem to like Russia a lot.

↪RogueAI Have you ever thought of joining the Azov Nazis? — Jack Rogozhin

Those people that went to Israel for an official get-together? Mossad must have blundered royally. (incidentally Aug 2, 2023) The Nazi thing is straight out of Putinist newspeak. No, Ukraine ain't ruled by a Nazi regime as they propagandize. Old. You know, answering a question with a question like so is kind of rude (deflection, dodging).

Sure, but we also have the choice to vote against both, work towards building a progressive third party
— Jack Rogozhin

At the cost of electing Trump, I’m not sure it’s worth it. There’s ways to build a progressive movement beyond just voting. It starts in each state, and builds from there.

While Biden as a man might be repugnant and unacceptable, his appointments aren’t. In fact some are quite good. — Mikie

Of course it is as Biden has proven to be as bad, if not worse than Trump. And Biden's appointments: Blinken, Austen, Abrams, Tanden have been awful and awful human beings

We went backwards with Biden as he drilled more than trump, gave out more drilling licenses than Trump, pushed the horrendous Willow Project, and committed the worst act of eco-terrorism by OKing the sabotaging of the Nordstream pipeline
— Jack Rogozhin

But in the last two years, they also passed the IRA and canceled the Keystone XL pipeline, strengthened car emission standards, etc. Actions at the SEC, EPA, energy, and interior have all been much better than under Trump — by any metric.

That’s not to say it’s perfect or satisfactory— just better than the prior administration. I think that’s obvious. — Mikie

Sorry, but none of those vague, unspecific suppositions counter what I showed above: Biden has been worse on the environment than Trump

I think the problem is that too much is made about voting, as if that's our sole political power. — Mikie

If this is true, then you shouldn't worrry about people voting their conscience.
— Jack Rogozhin

Why? I didn’t say it isn’t important. It’s just not our sole political action. We should make sure we’re voting against the worst, ensuring the greatest impediment to our goals isn’t in office—then continue on with our work. — Mikie

Because you just said too much is made about it. And now you are making too much about it, actually worrying about my vote, even

It doesn't give Trump a better chance as neither Biden nor Trump own West voters' votes,
— Jack Rogozhin

Not owned, but most voting for West will have values and goals that will be much more likely to be obstructed (and in fact actively fought against) under a Trump administration than a Biden one. If we had ranked choice voting, I think Biden would come before Trump, in most cases.

That being said, these votes going to West (or staying home) simply gives Trump a better chance to win — at least in swing states. In Mass, it doesn’t matter much. In NH, it matters a great deal. — Mikie

It doesn't give Trump a better chance as neither Biden nor Trump own West voters' votes, and a vote for West is a vote against Biden AND Trump — Jack Rogozhin

Nonsense. As I showed, the strike-breaking, pro-cop, censoring, warmonger has been even more anti-progressive than Trump. So if you think voting West hurts Bidens chances, that's a good thing for West voters

And as I showed, votes going to West simply do not give a better chance to either Biden or Trump. You can keep erroneously saying otherwise, but it doesn't make it right

So I care about climate change. The IRA will help my neighbors and I get solar panels and heat pumps. That’s a good thing. Trump and the Republicans are literally running on dismantling all of that. If my voting for West just because it makes me feel better, ignoring the reality of a two-party system, comes at the real cost of electing Trump— I’ve shot myself in the foot. — Mikie

You clearly don't care enough about the environment as you are fine with Bidens' terrible environmental record, which is worse than Trump's

Only touchy one here is you. I asked a serious question. You seem to like the Azov Nazis a lot

No

↪RogueAI Have you ever thought of joining the Azov Nazis?
— Jack Rogozhin

Those people that went to Israel for an official get-together? Mossad must have blundered royally. (incidentally Aug 2, 2023) The Nazi thing is straight out of Putinist newspeak. No, Ukraine ain't ruled by a Nazi regime as they propagandize. Old. You know, answering a question with a question like so is kind of rude (deflection, dodging). — jorndoe

No, Ukraine's official Nazi battalion. And the Nazi thing is just truth; your denial of it is straight out of CIA and Banderite newsspeak

Here you go, Stepan. Educate yourself for once...and brush up on your courtesies:

https://multipolarista.com/2022/02/23/nato-atlantic-council-ukraine-nazi-azov/

https://thehill.com/opinion/international/359609-the-reality-of-neo-nazis-in-the-ukraine-is-far-from-kremlin-propaganda

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hundreds-of-ukrainian-nationalists-march-in-in-honor-of-nazi-collaborator/

Of course it is as Biden has proven to be as bad, if not worse than Trump. — Jack Rogozhin

Not on the environment— which is what I was talking about.

But in the last two years, they also passed the IRA and canceled the Keystone XL pipeline, strengthened car emission standards, etc. Actions at the SEC, EPA, energy, and interior have all been much better than under Trump — by any metric.

That’s not to say it’s perfect or satisfactory— just better than the prior administration. I think that’s obvious.
— Mikie

Sorry, but none of those vague, unspecific suppositions counter what I showed above: Biden has been worse on the environment than Trump — Jack Rogozhin

Canceling the XL and passing the IRA is hardly “unspecific suppositions.” They’re facts.

As far as the actions of the departments I mentioned— I can get into that more.

They exactly counter the claim that Biden is worse than Trump on the environment.

Because you just said too much is made about it. And now you are making too much about it, actually worrying about my vote, even — Jack Rogozhin

In the sense that it’s not our only political move. I’ve now repeated that three times. Why is it not clear?

Voting is important. But it’s not the only thing we have.

And as I showed, votes going to West simply do not give a better chance to either Biden or Trump. — Jack Rogozhin

Simply declaring you “showed” things is meaningless. You haven’t once showed that. You’ve made statements that it isn’t true. And I see no serious reason to believe it.

even more anti-progressive than Trump. — Jack Rogozhin

So you’re actually arguing that the Biden administration is worse than the Trump administration in terms of progressive values.

That’s insane to me.

Sorry — I prefer Michael Regan as EPA administrator, not Scott Pruitt. Call me crazy. But you do you.

You clearly don't care enough about the environment as you are fine with Bidens' terrible environmental record, which is worse than Trump's — Jack Rogozhin

You really should educate yourself on the environmental record of the Trump administration. Your assessment is just ridiculous, I’m afraid.

Anyone pretending to care should progressive goals has the minimal moral responsibility to examine the real world impacts of government policy.

Sorry, but none of those vague, unspecific suppositions counter what I showed above: Biden has been worse on the environment than Trump
— Jack Rogozhin

Canceling the XL and passing the IRA is hardly “unspecific suppositions.” They’re facts.

As far as the actions of the departments I mentioned— I can get into that more.

They exactly counter the claim that Biden is worse than Trump on the environment. — Mikie

Actions at the SEC, EPA, energy, and interior have all been much better than under Trump — by any metric. — Mikie

Your quote above was all opinion and suppositions; that's what I was talking about. And neither they, nor your mention of XL and IRA counter the claim Biden was worse than Trump on the environment in any way. My claim still stands true

In the sense that it’s not our only political move. I’ve now repeated that three times. Why is it not clear?

Voting is important. But it’s not the only thing we have. — Mikie

You have not made that clear and stop whining about it. Voting is important; so stop worrying about other peoples votes and stop voting for corrupt anti-environment, Zionist, pro-cop warmongers like Biden. And you don't have to tell me voting isnt all we have; it's presumptious of you to do so. I do lots of political and social work outside voting. What do you do?

And as I showed, votes going to West simply do not give a better chance to either Biden or Trump.
— Jack Rogozhin

Simply declaring you “showed” things is meaningless. You haven’t once showed that. You’ve made statements that it isn’t true. And I see no serious reason to believe it. — Mikie

I have showed it and showed I did. Your simply saying didn't doesn't change that. You're the one who has made untrue statements and I have no reason to believe them.

So you’re actually arguing that the Biden administration is worse than the Trump administration in terms of progressive values.

That’s insane to me. — Mikie

Yes I am, and I am correct. Your thinking otherwise is insane to me.

You really should educate yourself on the environmental record of the Trump administration. Your assessment is just ridiculous. — Mikie

No, you should really educate yourself on the environmental record of both trump and Biden. Your assessments have been ridiclous, not mine

Anyway, since you're now getting upset and being rude, we're done. Have a good evening and relax a bit

And neither they, nor your mention of XL and IRA counter the claim Biden was worse than Trump on the environment in any way. — Jack Rogozhin

It does exactly that, in fact.

My claim still stands true — Jack Rogozhin

No, it doesn't. It's ridiculously uninformed.

The passing of the IRA alone is better than anything Trump did on the environmental -- which was to dig more coal, pull out of the Paris Accords, and destroy hundreds of regulations. There's plenty of information on it with a google search.

I do lots of political and social work outside voting. — Jack Rogozhin

And yet you want to actively make this work harder.

Your false equivalency of Trump and Biden is your problem, really. But that's yours to solve.

Simply declaring you “showed” things is meaningless. You haven’t once showed that. You’ve made statements that it isn’t true. And I see no serious reason to believe it.
— Mikie

I have showed it and showed I did. — Jack Rogozhin

I guess that proves it.

And I see no serious reason to believe it. — Mikie

I have no reason to believe them. — Jack Rogozhin

That’s insane to me. — Mikie

Your thinking otherwise is insane to me. — Jack Rogozhin

Your assessment is just ridiculous. — Mikie

Your assessments have been ridiclous, not mine — Jack Rogozhin

Forgive me. At first I thought I was communicating with an adult.

I can see you won't last long on this forum. But nice talking to you.

Biden has been worse on the environment than Trump — Jack Rogozhin

Demonstrable bullshit, although I’m not going to press the point as you’re obviously trolling.

Biden has been worse on the environment than Trump
— Jack Rogozhin

Demonstrable bullshit, although I’m not going to press the point as you’re obviously trolling. — Quixodian

Clearly it isn't, as you fail to counter my point; so the one trolling is you

And this is a philosophical forum. So show it some respect by remaining adult and civil...instead of spewing childish vulgarities

You show zero interest in discussing philosophy, all your posts are on Ukraine and US politics and bear no relation to anything cited on your profile page.

The Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 is the most significant climate legislation in U.S. history, offering funding, programs, and incentives to accelerate the transition to a clean energy economy and will likely drive significant deployment of new clean electricity resources.

The GOP is determined to roll back all of this. Trump showed no interest in the environment, calling global warming a hoax.