No, not voting for Biden and voting for Cornel West is voting for Cornel West, just like not voting for Cornel West is not the equivalent of not voting for Trump — Jack Rogozhin
Biden is a worse authoritarian than Trump.
Do you understand the concept of a someone running as a third party splitting the vote which ends up helping the opposition to win? It's the same concept here. If I voted for Cornel West in the general election, that is a vote that could have helped Biden win against Trump. If it is close, enough votes for Cornel West (or someone else) could result in a Trump victory. That is what I mean. — GRWelsh
No, Trump is worse by orders of magnitude. Trump wanted to make millions of votes for Biden not count in the 2020 election. That is Putin-level authoritarianism. — GRWelsh
What does a vote against Putin do in Russia? I feel bad for Russians. They don't... — GRWelsh
but indicative of a Russophobia that our media and the Democrats (and many Republicans) have fomented in the last six years — Jack Rogozhin
Why are you parroting Putinist propaganda? — jorndoe
Putin has managed to create much hate (May 26, 2023; Aug 1, 2023) etc, not the least in Ukraine (Aug 9, 2023). FYI, it's come up a few times before. — jorndoe
Confusing Russophobia and anti-authoritarianism/anti-Putinism verges on accusing everyone of racism. — jorndoe
I'm not. — Jack Rogozhin
Why are you a Russophobe? — Jack Rogozhin
I'm not.
— Jack Rogozhin
Yeah, you are. Just about verbatim. — jorndoe
Why are you a Russophobe?
— Jack Rogozhin
I'm not. So, bare racism accusation. Tu quoque style at that. — jorndoe
By all means, investigate the Bidens. If they're guilty of any crimes, let the evidence come out. Unlike many Trump supporters, I'm not going to deny Joe Biden is guilty of any wrongdoing without even looking at the evidence or reading the indictments. But the irony right now is that Republicans seems so concerned about family grift and Hunter allegedly making 5 million without a peep about Jared and Ivanka making 2 billion. Oh, grift and nepotism bothers you? Now, it bothers you a lot, but in 2016-2020 not so much.
right now that best option is the Green party and Cornel West — Jack Rogozhin
In the sad state of American political duopoly, it's going to be a Biden/Trump rematch. Those, unfortunately, are most likely going to be the choices. I prefer Biden in office -- not because I like Biden, but because I like a lot of his administrators and more of his policies than Trump's. — Mikie
The environment is a good example: would we have the IRA with Trump in office? Of course not. That's not to say it was what it should have been -- we needed much more than that. But it's better than going backwards. — Mikie
I think the problem is that too much is made about voting, as if that's our sole political power. So people, understandably, want to vote their conscience. — Mikie
Yes, Cornell West is the best candidate. I wish he would become president and I hope he gains momentum. But if it comes to a Biden/Trump rematch, I don't see how voting for Cornell, however noble, doesn't simply give Trump (by far the worst of all three) a better chance at winning. — Mikie
Sure, but we also have the choice to vote against both, work towards building a progressive third party — Jack Rogozhin
We went backwards with Biden as he drilled more than trump, gave out more drilling licenses than Trump, pushed the horrendous Willow Project, and committed the worst act of eco-terrorism by OKing the sabotaging of the Nordstream pipeline — Jack Rogozhin
If this is true, then you shouldn't worrry about people voting their conscience. — Jack Rogozhin
It doesn't give Trump a better chance as neither Biden nor Trump own West voters' votes, — Jack Rogozhin
↪RogueAI Have you ever thought of joining the Azov Nazis? — Jack Rogozhin
Sure, but we also have the choice to vote against both, work towards building a progressive third party
— Jack Rogozhin
At the cost of electing Trump, I’m not sure it’s worth it. There’s ways to build a progressive movement beyond just voting. It starts in each state, and builds from there.
While Biden as a man might be repugnant and unacceptable, his appointments aren’t. In fact some are quite good. — Mikie
We went backwards with Biden as he drilled more than trump, gave out more drilling licenses than Trump, pushed the horrendous Willow Project, and committed the worst act of eco-terrorism by OKing the sabotaging of the Nordstream pipeline
— Jack Rogozhin
But in the last two years, they also passed the IRA and canceled the Keystone XL pipeline, strengthened car emission standards, etc. Actions at the SEC, EPA, energy, and interior have all been much better than under Trump — by any metric.
That’s not to say it’s perfect or satisfactory— just better than the prior administration. I think that’s obvious. — Mikie
I think the problem is that too much is made about voting, as if that's our sole political power. — Mikie
If this is true, then you shouldn't worrry about people voting their conscience.
— Jack Rogozhin
Why? I didn’t say it isn’t important. It’s just not our sole political action. We should make sure we’re voting against the worst, ensuring the greatest impediment to our goals isn’t in office—then continue on with our work. — Mikie
It doesn't give Trump a better chance as neither Biden nor Trump own West voters' votes,
— Jack Rogozhin
Not owned, but most voting for West will have values and goals that will be much more likely to be obstructed (and in fact actively fought against) under a Trump administration than a Biden one. If we had ranked choice voting, I think Biden would come before Trump, in most cases.
That being said, these votes going to West (or staying home) simply gives Trump a better chance to win — at least in swing states. In Mass, it doesn’t matter much. In NH, it matters a great deal. — Mikie
It doesn't give Trump a better chance as neither Biden nor Trump own West voters' votes, and a vote for West is a vote against Biden AND Trump — Jack Rogozhin
So I care about climate change. The IRA will help my neighbors and I get solar panels and heat pumps. That’s a good thing. Trump and the Republicans are literally running on dismantling all of that. If my voting for West just because it makes me feel better, ignoring the reality of a two-party system, comes at the real cost of electing Trump— I’ve shot myself in the foot. — Mikie
↪RogueAI Have you ever thought of joining the Azov Nazis?
— Jack Rogozhin
Those people that went to Israel for an official get-together? Mossad must have blundered royally. (incidentally Aug 2, 2023) The Nazi thing is straight out of Putinist newspeak. No, Ukraine ain't ruled by a Nazi regime as they propagandize. Old. You know, answering a question with a question like so is kind of rude (deflection, dodging). — jorndoe
Of course it is as Biden has proven to be as bad, if not worse than Trump. — Jack Rogozhin
But in the last two years, they also passed the IRA and canceled the Keystone XL pipeline, strengthened car emission standards, etc. Actions at the SEC, EPA, energy, and interior have all been much better than under Trump — by any metric.
That’s not to say it’s perfect or satisfactory— just better than the prior administration. I think that’s obvious.
— Mikie
Sorry, but none of those vague, unspecific suppositions counter what I showed above: Biden has been worse on the environment than Trump — Jack Rogozhin
Because you just said too much is made about it. And now you are making too much about it, actually worrying about my vote, even — Jack Rogozhin
And as I showed, votes going to West simply do not give a better chance to either Biden or Trump. — Jack Rogozhin
even more anti-progressive than Trump. — Jack Rogozhin
You clearly don't care enough about the environment as you are fine with Bidens' terrible environmental record, which is worse than Trump's — Jack Rogozhin
Sorry, but none of those vague, unspecific suppositions counter what I showed above: Biden has been worse on the environment than Trump
— Jack Rogozhin
Canceling the XL and passing the IRA is hardly “unspecific suppositions.” They’re facts.
As far as the actions of the departments I mentioned— I can get into that more.
They exactly counter the claim that Biden is worse than Trump on the environment. — Mikie
Actions at the SEC, EPA, energy, and interior have all been much better than under Trump — by any metric. — Mikie
In the sense that it’s not our only political move. I’ve now repeated that three times. Why is it not clear?
Voting is important. But it’s not the only thing we have. — Mikie
And as I showed, votes going to West simply do not give a better chance to either Biden or Trump.
— Jack Rogozhin
Simply declaring you “showed” things is meaningless. You haven’t once showed that. You’ve made statements that it isn’t true. And I see no serious reason to believe it. — Mikie
So you’re actually arguing that the Biden administration is worse than the Trump administration in terms of progressive values.
That’s insane to me. — Mikie
You really should educate yourself on the environmental record of the Trump administration. Your assessment is just ridiculous. — Mikie
And neither they, nor your mention of XL and IRA counter the claim Biden was worse than Trump on the environment in any way. — Jack Rogozhin
My claim still stands true — Jack Rogozhin
I do lots of political and social work outside voting. — Jack Rogozhin
Simply declaring you “showed” things is meaningless. You haven’t once showed that. You’ve made statements that it isn’t true. And I see no serious reason to believe it.
— Mikie
I have showed it and showed I did. — Jack Rogozhin
And I see no serious reason to believe it. — Mikie
I have no reason to believe them. — Jack Rogozhin
That’s insane to me. — Mikie
Your thinking otherwise is insane to me. — Jack Rogozhin
Your assessment is just ridiculous. — Mikie
Your assessments have been ridiclous, not mine — Jack Rogozhin
Biden has been worse on the environment than Trump — Jack Rogozhin
Biden has been worse on the environment than Trump
— Jack Rogozhin
Demonstrable bullshit, although I’m not going to press the point as you’re obviously trolling. — Quixodian
The Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 is the most significant climate legislation in U.S. history, offering funding, programs, and incentives to accelerate the transition to a clean energy economy and will likely drive significant deployment of new clean electricity resources.
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