Maybe the trouble is expecting grammar to be logical in the first place, when mostly what matters is what’s conventional, i.e., standard. — Jamal

That doesn't mean it stops annoying me. I expect songs to have a tune and lyrics and it annoys me when they don't (Oh, man, does it ever!) even though the standard convention is to repeat the same two-note, three-word loop with several overlaid tracks of the same thing.

I wouldn’t criticize you merely for preferring try to; it’s the implied criticism of my way of speaking and writing that I cannot take — Jamal

Isn't every expression of annoyance an overt criticism of something and thus an implied criticism of those who, knowingly or otherwise, cause that annoyance?
If the criticized persons are injured by this, I petition to have this thread locked and erased forthwith. Know any sympathetic mods?

That doesn't mean it stops annoying me. I expect songs to have a tune and lyrics and it annoys me when they don't (Oh, man, does it ever!) even though the standard convention is to repeat the same two-note, three-word loop with several overlaid tracks of the same thing. — Vera Mont

Speculation forthcoming…

I put it to you that you are quite happy with many illogicalities of grammar (and spelling, which is especially illogical in English), simply because they are now standard and unquestioned, whereas try and offends you because try to remains as another standard option. Similarly, you are familiar with better ways of making a song than to “repeat the same two-note, three-word loop with several overlaid tracks of the same thing.” The latter might be popular but not everyone does it that way.

There is a big difference though: I don’t think try to is any more logical than try and, whereas I do think that some songs are better than others.

However, personally I think try and is better than try to, but I won’t be offended by your use of the latter.

Isn't every expression of annoyance an overt criticism of something and thus an implied criticism of those who, knowingly or otherwise, cause that annoyance? — Vera Mont

Yep. There is a small distance between “I hate it when people do X” and “I hate people who do X”.

If the criticized persons are injured by this, I petition to have this thread locked and erased forthwith. Know any sympathetic mods? — Vera Mont

I was personally injured by the comments about vaping, but I’m a big boy, I can take it :strong:

It is the first thing that came to my mind when I thought about annoyances. But, I didn't want to post it because my intention was not to disrespect the smokers of this forum (if there are actually any). It is literally a waste of money and toxicity for the environment. You know, it is bollocks how the state makes advertisements against smoke addiction, but at the end of the day they collect a lot of money in taxes thanks to all sold cigarette packages.

My mother is a smoker. I always give my best to help her to get rid of smoking. It is not an easy task. We have already reduced the consumption of packages and she "only" smokes half of the cigarette. I will be pushing forward until she definitely stops smoking. — javi2541997

Vaping wasn't my initial thought.
But it seems to be increasing - and I'm more aware of it.
Yesterday, a young man vaped his way across the junction before me.
He was shrouded in steam, leaving a trail of smelly stuff behind.
I chose to walk in the other direction, to breathe relatively cleaner air. Good to have a choice.

I wondered what the mist contained. And more:

Vaping is when you use a handheld electronic device to breathe a mist (“vapor”) into your lungs. An e-cigarette, vape pen or other electronic nicotine delivery system (ENDS) heats a liquid of nicotine, flavoring, propylene glycol and other additives into an aerosol that you inhale through a mouthpiece. Vaping can cause breathing problems, organ damage, addiction and other conditions. — Vaping - cleveland clinic

It's good that you are helping your Mum quit smoking and that she is willing to try.
This article and BTL comments might be of help:

A friend who I considered to be almost as serious a vaper as me had managed 86 days off hers. Another friend told me how she had given up cigarettes for 18 months by reading Allen Carr’s book Easy Way to Quit Smoking.

I dared to believe that I could, perhaps, quit nicotine. I bought the vaping version of the book and read it in a couple of days. It works by dismantling any belief you have that vaping is a pleasurable or helpful activity – for example, the notion that it helps you concentrate or that it calms you in stressful situations. Quitting is reframed as a purely positive no-brainer and, what’s more, an easy thing to do, instead of the torturous deprivation that I feared.

The book was boring and repetitive but it worked some kind of sorcery because I obediently puffed my last vape – you are encouraged to vape as you read – threw it in the bin, and somehow I have been nicotine-free for an astounding 402 days. This is the first time in 20 years that I have not been ingesting some form of nicotine on a daily basis.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/sep/18/addicted-nicotine-20-years-quit-vaping

Best wishes!

I was personally injured by the comments about vaping, but I’m a big boy, I can take it — Jamal

Did I read that you own a vape shop - or was that another part of my TPF hallucination?

I have never knowingly owned a vape shop, but I have set foot in many. I can’t comment on the contents of your acid trips or whatever it is.

Ah, so you are a vape-guy, then?

I use a vape but I don’t want to be a “vape guy”. Vape guys are into vaping like it’s a hobby, and for some reason endeavour to produce as much vapour as possible, gathering with their vape guy friends to talk about vaping and compete to produce the biggest clouds.

I use a vape but I don’t want to be a “vape guy” — Jamal

It started with a vape. A want becomes a need. It's addictive and harmful. And it's not only guys. There's been an increase in young females vaping. Marketed as cool and comes in cute flavours like pink lemonade, bubblegum and watermelon ice. There is more availability of disposable vapes.

Data released by the Office for National Statistics (ONS) showed that one in 15 women (6.7%) aged 16-24 vaped daily in 2022 – up from fewer than one in 50 (1.9%) in 2021 – with young women overtaking their male counterparts for e-cigarette usage.

The rise in young women vaping mirrors findings in an NHS survey of school-aged children last year, which showed more than one in five 15-year-old girls using e-cigarettes – hugely outstripping their male counterparts. — Number of young women vaping daily more than triples - the Guardian

To me, vaping was a good way to stop smoking. No doubt it has helped many people that way, and this is a good thing. I don’t advocate vaping for people who are not addicted to nicotine, and I can understand the concern with that, but at least it’s better than smoking.

To me, vaping was a good way to stop smoking. No doubt it has helped many people that way, and this is a good thing. — Jamal

Fantastic. Well done you! But it's still nothing more than a dummy tit. An addictive comforter.
The original sugar tit:

It was made by placing a spoonful of sugar, or honey, in a small patch of clean cloth, then gathering the cloth around the sugar and twisting it to form a bulb. The bulb was then secured by twine or a rubber band. The baby's saliva would slowly dissolve the sugar in the bulb.

In use the exposed outfolded fabric could give the appearance of a flower in the baby's mouth. David Ransel quotes a Russian study by Dr. N. E. Kushev while discussing a similar home-made cloth-and-food pacifier called a soska (со́ска); there, the term "flower", as used colloquially by mothers, refers to a bloom of mold in the child's mouth caused by decay of the contents.

As early as 1802 a German physician, Christian Struve, described the sugar tit as "one of the most revolting customs". — Sugar tit- wiki

The problem for others is in the secondary inhalation of these chemicals.
Secondhand smoke and vaping is more than just a 'revolting custom' or an 'intense annoyance'...

I believe your complaint about vaping is an irrational moral judgment more than a concern for public health, and that you’re in the grip of a moral panic. But that’s the interesting premise of this thread: in sharing what you find to be obnoxious, some readers will find you obnoxious.

Next:

Pedestrians on cycle paths when I’m cycling, especially those who jump left or right at the last moment, when they realize there’s a bike coming. I want to say this is idiotic, because it really is the worst thing they could do, but my reasonable self tells my intensely annoyed self that it’s just a natural response and that I might do the same myself.

I believe your complaint about vaping is an irrational moral judgment more than a concern for public health, and that you’re in the grip of a moral panic. But that’s the interesting premise of this thread: in sharing what you find to be obnoxious, some readers will find you obnoxious. — Jamal

Ah, now you're smokin'!

Pedestrians on cycle paths when I’m cycling, especially those who jump left or right at the last moment, when they realize there’s a bike coming. I want to say this is idiotic, because it really is the worst thing they could do, but my reasonable self tells my intensely annoyed self that it’s just a natural response and that I might do the same myself. — Jamal

Like many walkers on a multi-purpose recreational path, I have to keep my wits about me.
One wrong move or stumble and I might be hurt. Along with damage to bike, scooter or others.

When I am aware of other users, I generally stop and pull into the side when necessary.
I was pleased and so thanked passing cyclists - a couple and then a single - when they gave sufficient and early warning. In addition to ringing a bell, one even called out "Cyclist coming!"

I don't know if there is specific training; rules or guide-lines for cyclists or any other path users.
The best way to warn others; to reduce the potential for harm for all concerned?

I don’t currently have a bell on my bike so I sometimes shout “excuse me” or similar, in the appropriate language. But if the pedestrians are walking on bike-specific paths, I am entitled to run them over without warning.

bike-specific paths — Jamal

This is interesting. A number of roads now have wide paths alongside. I think there are signs on some that say 'Cyclists' but they are clearly the only paths available for walkers, joggers etc.
And cyclists still use ordinary pavements to cycle on...

I'd been wondering why more cyclists weren't using bells. I thought they used to be compulsory.

Whilst bike bells are not a legal requirement, unless you live in the most rural parts of the UK it is strongly recommended that you use one. At under £5.00 bike bells are incredibly affordable and easy to replace.

Pedestrians, other cyclists and drivers all need to be aware of your presence and you never know, you could just save your own life or someone else’s. — Do bikes have to have a bell?

Bicycle Bell Law UK
Rule 66 of the Highway Code states that cyclists must let others know where they are when necessary. For example ‘by ringing your bell if you have one’. The if is key here; having or using a bicycle bell is therefore not a mandatory legal requirement in the UK.

It is recommended that cyclists equip a bicycle bell, and all UK stores will are required to equip one upon sale, but it is up to you whether you choose to use it or not. — Discerning cyclist

I know you are a great guy, safety conscious and wouldn't hurt a fly.
This thread's great. The things I've learned!

I know you are a great guy, safety conscious and wouldn't hurt a fly. — Amity

I wonder why I’m mildly offended by this. Anyway thanks.

No mild offence intended. You're welcome.

Try and get along guys. No need to loose the plot.

?

Just being silly. Thought it was obvious— perhaps it wasn’t.

Oh I see what happened. Didn’t mean to tag you @Amity. Corrected.

OK, it's been a long day and I'm tired. Loosing my mind...
G'night!

Didn’t mean to tag you Amity. Corrected. — Mikie

Ta, now I won't loose sleep over it! Stopping now.

The use of "impact" as a verb.

The use of "impact" as a verb. — Paine

I'm okay with that, as long it refers to meteorite or cannonball. When it's used to replace 'affect' or 'influence', it drives me me buggy.

What bugs me is that it got its form as a past participle so that one could cogently refer to things "having an impact".
But then it started getting used as an active verb. That has an Orwellian Newspeak feel of replacing better English.

That has an Orwellian Newspeak feel of replacing better English — Paine

So do very many other fashionable words and phrases. You'd almost suspect a conspiracy... when really, it's just an epidemic of imitation.

Referring to pure fiction, like Orwellian Newspeak, as though it were something real.

I just finished reading 1984 and according to the story, words that imply individuality, rebellion, or independent thought are systematically eliminated. The word "impact" would not exist at all in Newspeak because it can convey a sense of influence, significance, or change, which could be seen as promoting independent thought or analysis. Words like "impact" would be replaced with more simplified or controlled language that serves the purposes of the Party and reduces the potential for dissent.

The point is to control thought, not to degrade language.

The point is to control thought, not to degrade language. — praxis

It still is. They just became a little more subtle and tech-savvy since 1948.

If you believe that can you explain how they do it? And who are they?

If you believe that can you explain how they do it? And who are they? — praxis

Who: They are the modern aristocracy.

How: mass communications: media social networking platforms; news sources

Through their communication networks, they have been able to convey subliminal messages for nearl a century now. The themes, the slant, the language used, the very tenor of advertisements all affect how the public hears and speaks and thinks. Thus, through waves of fear-mongery (the red menace, the evil weed, terrorists under the bed) alternating with reassurance, (our valiant troops triumph; our spies are smarter then their spies, the incorruptible police thwart crime) embedded in an endless banquet of palatable entertainments and distracting graphic images, words are perverted, perceptions are altered, ideas are planted and consolidated.