Hamas doesn't care about the Palestinian civilians. Name one thing Hamas has done to help children or civilians in the Gaza Strip since they took power 15 years ago. — GRWelsh

I just wanted to acknowledge this. Unlike Israel who at least gives a shit about its own population, I see no fucks about human life for Hamas.

My guess is that everything is going according to Hamas' plan. They knew Israel would react with overwhelming force and hoped that would create a new humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Hamas doesn't care about the Palestinian civilians. Name one thing Hamas has done to help children or civilians in the Gaza Strip since they took power 15 years ago — GRWelsh

It does look like that. Everything is going according to the plans of Hamas, and also the plans of the Nettanyahu government, which a former Prime Minster of Israel called 'thugs', right now, at least. It remains to be seen if the powers that be in Israel allowed this to happen in order to be able to have a reason for destroying Hamas, but to me it seems likely. Everything is going according to the plans of Hamas, they may have done some things for the Palestinian civilians, but in their minds, they may feel this is the best thing they have ever done. Given what they are, one needs to look at who funded them and propped them up. A terrorist organization.

It may not be clear what side I am on, or whom I stand with: so here I am: I am on the side of the civilians. I am on the side of the citizens. Their existing governments have let them down, one by failing to protect, the other for organizing a terror attack that would further the ends of the their organization: to draw Israel into a conflict, and attempt to 'exhaust' Israel. Of course..um..people have to die,but it is all worth it for Hamas. I call it a failure in intelligence on both sides in this sense: these are unintelligent plans, and more plainly, stupid plans.

These are colossal failures of government in its truest sense.

What is the role of government anyway?

In all modern states, governmental functions have greatly expanded with the emergence of government as an active force in guiding social and economic development — Britannica

"active force in guiding social and economic development"

While that statement stands as the understatement of the century, in this context, judge for yourselves how the respective governments have fared.

To bear the brunt of this all are the citizens, the Israeli soldiers now asked to go and fight, again, because the last fight did not achieve their objectives. The Hamas terrorists - did not exist in a vacuum, but were created by the leadership, using the inexperience of the young Palestinian men (some reports say that their families are paid large sums of money from a 'Martyrs fund'). Hamas was, according to other sources, funded by the Israeli government at that time.

All this reminds me more and more of a game of chess. Pawns outnumber the elites, but pawns are to be sacrificed, all the same, faceless, soulless minions, discarded as soon as they are used in order that the Players may win the game. Who are the Players here? It is certainly not the pawns. It is certainly not the citizens. Another thing about pawns: they have no eyes.

It is all going to plan: Attacking Israeli civilians, getting Palestinians bombed. What of the plans of the innocent people of that country - men, women children? The plans of the ordinary human beings (not the extraordinary human beings in power)? Plans for a relaxing Saturday afternoon, a music festival. And on the other side, even simpler plans, plans for drinking water, electricity, free access to supplies without having to crawl through tunnels on hands and knees to bring sugar and refrigerators in.

The least we can do is refuse to be pawns in a manufactured conflict.

"What luck for rulers that men do not think"

Do you know who said that?

Iran has used Hamas to set the trap and Israel must take the bait in Gaza. The US-NATO hegemon will eventually extract Israel from the trap of razing Gaza while (maybe) deterring Iran et al from opening up secondary fronts (e.g. Hezbollah). NYC, Paris and/or London might become tertiary fronts (TBD).

They may detract Iran, but Hezbollah? That's looking tougher by the day. The didn't go in today, or yesterday because of the "weather".

The issue is, how long will they starve the people of Gaza?

And the US better start really pressuring Israel to take it easy on the civilians, they're not listening.

If Iran does get involved, oh boy....

I hope you are right.

Iran has used Hamas to set the trap and Israel must take the bait in Gaza. — 180 Proof

That looks like the plan to me but very cold-blooded, don't you think?

I am against any loss of life on any side (civilian or otherwise).

The statement by the Chinese government very closely matched my sentiments. You can't get much further from this than China.

In a brief statement Sunday, China’s Foreign Ministry called on “relevant parties to remain calm, exercise restraint and immediately end the hostilities.” It repeated Beijing’s support for a “two-state solution” to establish an independent State of Palestine as a way out of the conflict.

How about a dose of Psychology Today?

The standard response of antiterrorism units throughout the world has consisted of a surgical version of “shock and awe.” After a terrorist act occurs, find out who and where the perpetrators are, hit them soon, hit them hard, and thereby teach a lesson to any other miscreants who may be thinking of hatching and executing similar plots. However, systematic analysis shows that this unitary retaliatory approach to terrorism frequently not only fails to deter and discourage it but may in fact only perpetuate endless cycles of retribution.

Repeat post deleted.

Oh poor Benkei. You are too far gone in this one it seems. You plant ice, you are going to harvest wind, and all that.

For the record, you are supporting/justifying an organization such as Hamas. And I can see you are unbiased. I would just like to juxtapose this with Baden's response which recognized and condemned such an organization. — schopenhauer1

You have reading comprehension problems. There's a clear difference between "Hamas can be made peace with" and "I think Hamas did the right thing". But yes, your totally unbiased position is very good at picking up on nuance. :chin:

In any case, I'm certainly not unbiased and anybody with moral clarity shouldn't be. Every same person should be pro-Palestinian. The "existential threat" card with the best trained and equipped army is nonsense, especially in light of the limited means the Palestinians have. Meanwhile, Israel continously commits humanitarian crimes against the Palestinians and illegally settles land. All this is well documented.

For those illiterate on what Hamas is: https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-hamas

At the very least very popular. And if Fatah hadn't ousted them in the West Bank, they would be the see facto representation of the Palestinians. People underestimate what Hamas has also done to help Palestinians, which is why they are so popular and continue to be, even in the West Bank. When people complain Hamas doesn't allow voting in Gaza, they forget their favourite Fatah does exactly the same (but since it keeps out the party nobody wants to see, mum's the word).

And now I'm going on holidays and ignore every electronic device for a week.

Good luck with finding a moral compass for those who don't have one.

There's a clear difference between "Hamas can be made peace with" and "I think Hamas did the right thing". — Benkei

I think they’ve proven very thoroughly they can’t be, and odd that you’d want to reward it because “settlements”. One can be against settlements and not barbarism. In fact, if barbarism is justified, who cares- they’re all violent, right. It’s using people for causes. One can be so theoretical as to lose sight of the point of any of it. Perhaps Hamas can rule an empire of rubble and death. But it seems, you’d be satisfied with that. It’s either naïveté or blind hatred. A righteous cause gone sour. if you think Hamas gives a shit about its own people, you don’t seem to have paid attention to that side of the whole equation.

The "existential threat" card with the best trained and equipped army is nonsense, especially in light of the limited means the Palestinians have. Meanwhile, Israel continously commits humanitarian crimes against the Palestinians and illegally settles land. All this is well documented. — Benkei

It can be argued (and is) that Israel existing in the first place was the problem. If my history is correct, it started from Israel accepting the terms of the 1947 UN partition and Arabs rejecting it. This stated the subsequent wars that allows for the perpetual cycle of grievances.

You can put your lawyer coat on and spectacles and try to find the exact point at which you think that justice is defined, but you will always have prior grievances to fall back on to nullify that as too much compromise. You said yourself that the Oslo Accords were not just, but don’t worry YOU know the definition of the actual just position. Benkei! Benkei! Let us pull a page from the holy writ of the all just and knowing Benkei.

systematic analysis shows that this unitary retaliatory approach to terrorism frequently not only fails to deter and discourage it but may in fact only perpetuate endless cycles of retribution

Psychology Today is a fake science journal written by journalists whose opinions are as whimsical as the requests of their editors. Where are their references to alleged systematic analysis to unitary retaliatory approach? Perhaps personal surveys of news clippings from Pravda?

Is there anything that has been said in this thread which would make you exclaim: "I exactly see how this helps for this situation here"? — neomac


Nope.

But there is the issue of relevance to the ongoing issue, talking about say, Hezbollah potentially getting involved or Israel proceeding with the ground invasion raises more relevant and immediate moral issues than taking about a better moral situation. At least, that's how I see the issue, others may not see it that way — Manuel

.

Unless it’s still a good occasion to question convictions about “more relevant and immediate moral issues”, right?

Why aren't a war in Israel or in Ukraine a good occasion to do so? — neomac


I believe each of us is sincerely attempting to deal with complex moral issues. — Manuel

If the moral issues are so complex, I would expect more nuanced views on assessing evil and blame. Especially in a philosophy forum.
That’s not what I read, especially from the moderators of this philosophy forum.

For many, in this thread, "acting on moral intuitions" seems nothing more than broadcasting moral condemnations and blame attributions AS IF thinking that a peaceful foundation of nations is morally desirable, then it must absolutely be also possible. What if it is not possible as it seems it never ever was? — neomac


Well, at least where I live, there is nothing I can do to help alleviate the situation - there aren't even protests here, we have other issues so the Gaza situation does not arise, outside of headlines.

It's a topic I've followed closely since college, so it is somewhat more impactful to me than another conflict, due to time investment. A lot of this is also venting frustration, which is not necessarily bad. — Manuel

It can be bad though if it can be instrumental to politicians in a malign way. And that’s especially the case for protests since they do not seem the bestest occasion to question our deepest moral convictions nor to show nuances on complex moral issues. Unlike a philosophy forum, I dare to shamelessly suggest. Inshallah.

Kuwait also expelled 400,000+ Palestinians in the 90s. In Lebanon, there was ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, although this was in the context of the broader civil war and Palestinian massacres of Lebanese civilians as well, making it less one sided. — Count Timothy von Icarus

Yes, when the Palestinians were ardently in favour of Saddam Hussein, they could have anticipated what would be the result when Kuwait and Kuwaitis were liberated.

When Israel launched it's operation "Peace for Galilee", you have footage of local Lebanese civilian clapping there hands and cheering when Israeli tanks roll into Lebanon. So unwelcome the PLO had made itself in Lebanon. However, the IDF would quickly show it's disregard towards the Lebanese and hence we are in the situation we are in now.

I think the real problem is that the mutual hatred is quite persistent and basically something that is nearly part of the people's identity. It's rather telling to hear the stories of Finnish peacekeepers that have been in deployed to Lebanon (for a long time, not anymore). One fellow student in my university had been as a peacekeeper in Lebanon and firmly held the view that there will never be any peace, ever, and there will be certainly more wars. And he was correct as this happened in the 1990's. Peacekeepers from my country usually truly don't have any prior attitudes towards the conflict and tell a sober and honest view of the conflict. He wasn't alone with that conviction.

One story I remember is quite typical:

As IDF want to prevent from being ambushed, in any potential ambush locations (or basically place with limited visibility due to foliage or trees), the patrols simply drove through while shooting their machine guns wildly at the bushes and trees. In one unfortunate case a five year old girl was playing in her home's orchard and was killed due to machine gun fire. Later the IDF claimed that they had killed a terrorist that day in Southern Lebanon.

Of course, many people simply cannot fathom the fact that in this conflict both sides are victims and perpetrators. As if one as an outsider one has to choose one side, support them and denounce the other one.

If there is someone to blame it's the politicians on both side that do think that the only solution is war, because the other side is what it is.

Any news on the liberation of any of the hostages? And would that give space for deescalation if those would be freed? — Benkei

Really? So you are assuming that Hamas would give space for deescalation? Or you think IDF liberating hostages would mean deescalation?

At the very least very popular. And if Fatah hadn't ousted them in the West Bank, they would be the see facto representation of the Palestinians. People underestimate what Hamas has also done to help Palestinians, which is why they are so popular and continue to be, even in the West Bank. — Benkei

At least the Likud is also very popular in Israel. Benjamin Netanyahu has been the most successful Israeli Prime Minister ever and is the longest serving one. Isn't it the third time he's in office?

And actually coming back to the "two state" solution that you talked about with Hamas. Your argument was that they don't accept Israel because it would recognize the present borders, yet somehow would be open to a two state solution. I don't think really there is no "two state" solution as it stands in the Charter of Hamas:

The position toward Occupation and Political Solutions:

18. The following are considered null and void: the Balfour Declaration, the British Mandate Document, the UN Palestine Partition Resolution, and whatever resolutions and measures that derive from them or are similar to them. The establishment of “Israel” is entirely illegal and contravenes the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and goes against their will and the will of the Ummah; it is also in violation of human rights that are guaranteed by international conventions, foremost among them is the right to self-determination.

19. There shall be no recognition of the legitimacy of the Zionist entity. Whatever has befallen the land of Palestine in terms of occupation, settlement building, Judaization or changes to its features or falsification of facts is illegitimate. Rights never lapse.

20. Hamas believes that no part of the land of Palestine shall be compromised or conceded, irrespective of the causes, the circumstances and the pressures and no matter how long the occupation lasts. Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea. However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus.

21. Hamas affirms that the Oslo Accords and their addenda contravene the governing rules of international law in that they generate commitments that violate the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people. Therefore, the Movement rejects these agreements and all that flows from them, such as the obligations that are detrimental to the interests of our people, especially security coordination (collaboration).

22. Hamas rejects all the agreements, initiatives and settlement projects that are aimed at undermining the Palestinian cause and the rights of our Palestinian people. In this regard, any stance, initiative or political programme must not in any way violate these rights and should not contravene them or contradict them.

23. Hamas stresses that transgression against the Palestinian people, usurping their land and banishing them from their homeland cannot be called peace. Any settlements reached on this basis will not lead to peace. Resistance and jihad for the liberation of Palestine will remain a legitimate right, a duty and an honour for all the sons and daughters of our people and our Ummah.

Resistance and Liberation:

24. The liberation of Palestine is the duty of the Palestinian people in particular and the duty of the Arab and Islamic Ummah in general. It is also a humanitarian obligation as necessitated by the dictates of truth and justice. The agencies working for Palestine, whether national, Arab, Islamic or humanitarian, complement each other and are harmonious and not in conflict with each other.

25. Resisting the occupation with all means and methods is a legitimate right guaranteed by divine laws and by international norms and laws. At the heart of these lies armed resistance, which is regarded as the strategic choice for protecting the principles and the rights of the Palestinian people.

26. Hamas rejects any attempt to undermine the resistance and its arms. It also affirms the right of our people to develop the means and mechanisms of resistance. Managing resistance, in terms of escalation or de-escalation, or in terms of diversifying the means and methods, is an integral part of the process of managing the conflict and should not be at the expense of the principle of resistance.

Perhaps Hamas is open for a two state solution where Israel is transfered somewhere else? Perhaps to North America? Canada and the US have room...

This is CNN's humanitarian aid link if you want to donate some cash

Given the long delay on Israel's invasion, it is starting to look like the Israelis are realising they can't get it done diplomatically. They're smart enough to know that to rely solely on their military will create a catastrophe that might end Israel as we know it.

We'll have to see, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a diplomatic initiative coming from the BRICS that seeks to cement this new diplomatic reality in the Middle-East by finally allowing Palestinians statehood. (China has now officially stated it believes that to be the solution)

Even if that were to succeed, I'm unsure whether that would create positive change in the long run. My fear is that it would critically compromise Israel's already precarious position in the region. But it would certainly be another geopolitical bombshell.

Thanks frank!

:up:

I don't think so. They're going to squash the hell out of Gaza. Hamas will be gone. They have nuclear weapons. They don't care about Iran's bullshit.

At least the Likud is also very popular in Israel. Benjamin Netanyahu has been the most successful Israeli Prime Minister ever and is the longest serving one. Isn't it the third time he's in office?

It isn't though. It needed an alliance with Haredim parties to eek out a government. You need 61 seats and they have 64 in their alliance. But then they tried to use this narrow majority to drastically change the Israeli courts, precipitating a "constitutional crisis" of sorts. That's partly why Israel was so vulnerable to this attack.

Support for Likud has absolutely imploded. Polls show them winning a bit over half the seats they currently hold. Netanyahu compromised some core values for the current alliance, in part it seems, because he wants to hold office to avoid prosecution for corruption charges. In any event, post attack his approval rating has tanked to 29%. Gantz is up 20+ points on him now. It seems like, when the crisis is over, the centrist and liberal alliance is going to absolutely sweep. You can't campaign on strength and then deliver the worst attacks in decades. And unlike Bush during 9/11, this is clearly the fruit of Netanyahu's own policies as he's had ample time to shape Israeli security policy.

Well...

From Reuters:

Iran says 'preemptive action' by resistance front expected in coming hours

Iran's top envoy said that a "preemptive action" could be expected in the coming hours, state TV reported on Monday, adding that Israel will not be allowed to take any action in the Gaza Strip without facing consequences.

"Leaders of the Resistance will not allow the Zionist regime to take any action in Gaza. ... All options are open and we cannot be indifferent to the war crimes committed against the people of Gaza," Foreign Minister Hossein Amirabdollahian, told state TV.

I wonder what they have in mind. Haven't seen any preemptive action yet.

Benjamin Netanyahu has been the most successful Israeli Prime Minister ever and is the longest serving one

Yuval Noah Harari has something to say about that in a Washington Post OpEd. Addressing why the country was caught so utterly unprepared for the Hamas onslaught, he says

The real explanation for Israel’s dysfunction is populism rather than any alleged immorality. For many years, Israel has been governed by a populist strongman, Benjamin Netanyahu, who is a public-relations genius but an incompetent prime minister. He has repeatedly preferred his personal interests over the national interest and has built his career on dividing the nation against itself. He has appointed people to key positions based on loyalty more than qualifications, took credit for every success while never taking responsibility for failures, and seemed to give little importance to either telling or hearing the truth.

The coalition Netanyahu established in December 2022 has been by far the worst. It is an alliance of messianic zealots and shameless opportunists, who ignored Israel’s many problems — including the deteriorating security situation — and focused instead on grabbing unlimited power for themselves. In pursuit of this goal, they adopted extremely divisive policies, spread outrageous conspiracy theories about state institutions that oppose their policies, and labeled the country’s serving elites as “deep state” traitors.

The government was repeatedly warned by its own security forces and by numerous experts that its policies were endangering Israel and eroding Israeli deterrence at a time of mounting external threats. Yet when the IDF’s chief of staff asked for a meeting with Netanyahu to warn him about the security implications of the government’s policies, Netanyahu refused to meet him. When Defense Minister Yoav Gallant nevertheless raised the alarm, Netanyahu fired him. He was then forced to reinstate Gallant only because of an outbreak of popular outrage. Such behavior over many years enabled a calamity to strike Israel.

As an outsider to Israeli politics, albeit aware of the huge controversy sorrounding Netanyahu's attempt to castrate the judiciary, this OpEd was helpful in understanding his weaknesses.

They are being nebulous, they of course don't want to be destroyed, but they have issued several warnings. So far, Israel has not relented on not letting food or medicine in Gaza, the water they opened in the South of Gaza, is subject to verification - it could be PR.

It could be nothing- the Iran warning, hopefully. We will find out in a few hours.

In any case, I don't see the situation in Gaza not leading Hezbollah to act, unless Egypt and Israel agree to open the Rafah crossing, just by allowing basic necessities, would make the situation in Gaza a smidgen better. They should do it, looks unlikely.

Thank's for posting Harari's observations.

In any case, I don't see the situation in Gaza not leading Hezbollah to act, unless Egypt and Israel agree to open the Rafah crossing, just by allowing basic necessities, would make the situation in Gaza a smidgen better. They should do it, looks unlikely. — Manuel

I think they'll have to do that soon.

:up: Helped me make sense of it.

What I'm reading is that the biggest inhibitor to Hezbollah's involvement is that Lebanon is already totally economically f***ed. What with the aftermath of the Beirut port explosion, the collapse of the currency and banking system, sky-rocketing inflation and huge unemployment - much of which Hezbollah's blatant corruption and nepotism are responsible for! - there is absolutely zero appetite amongst the actual Lebanese citizenry for war with Israel. It's the very last thing anyone wants, even if the mullahs and jihadis are all chomping at the bit. (Although it's also true that the constraints of reason often mean nothing to fanatics.)

. You can't campaign on strength and then deliver the worst attacks in decades. And unlike Bush during 9/11, this is clearly the fruit of Netanyahu's own policies as he's had ample time to shape Israeli security policy. — Count Timothy von Icarus

I think that is an accurate description of the situation however going back to causes, this is the fruit of failure in conflict resolution. Is this more difficult than splitting the atom, or landing on the moon? Support for Israel does not mean support for any government for the policies of any one government. Other Israeli governments have shown themselves to approach the situation differently. Peaceful, sensible governments should be supported. It makes no sense to antagonize armed terrorists. There are more 'peaceful', ( though illegal ) methods of dealing with them. So there are options. The children will be safe. Maybe.

It is difficult to accurately describe both camps as 'Israelis' and 'Palestinians'. There are different perspectives on each side. I hope that I make specific references to, for example, the current Hamas military wing and its leadership, and the current Netanyahu government, whose faults are listed above . This is because they are not all the same, there are different perspective, personalities and opinions on each side. Anti - Zionists. Pro-Zionist Palestians. See here: (we don't know the motivation, but here it is)

On the willingness of Sheikh As'ad Shukair of Acre (a senior clergyman and oppositionist, father of the future PLO chairman Ahmad Shukairy) to write pro-Zionist articles, see his letter to Kalvariski, 15 January, 1925, CZA, S25 file 517. The Board of Deputies’ intelligence files are kept at the CZA, Division L4 (as well as Z4) and include reports from throughout the country, especially about remarks made at rallies of the national organizations.

Scanning the online newspapers and news sites out there, it seems that not everyone has the mind and language of an 'animal', I think we can all agree. I have been very impressed and inspired by the sheer humanity of some of these people. We have to realize they are not all the same. Maybe the respective governments should cage (or tame) whoever the 'animals' are, and let the rest live free.

For example, a Rabbi in Montreal, 3 days ago: (we must live in peace etc, anti-Zionist)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8queaGlpm8A&t=17s

Israeli armed forces: (search term "israeli pilot and bomb civilians")

'Every civilian casualty is tragic': Israeli pilot on Gaza ...

Sky News
https://news.sky.com › story › every-civilian-casualty-...
28-05-2021 — An Israeli fighter pilot who operated against Palestinian militants in Gaza this month has said all civilian deaths in the conflict were tragic ...

27 Israeli Reserve Pilots Say They Refuse to Bomb Civilians

The New York Times
https://www.nytimes.com › 2003/09/25 › world › 27-isra...
25-09-2003 — Twenty-seven reserve pilots in Israeli Air Force present signed petition to air force head Maj Gen Dan Halutz, saying they will not take ...

The myth of Israel's 'most moral army'

Al Jazeera
https://www.aljazeera.com › opinions › 2023/10/16 › t...
13 hours ago — ... civilians. In other words, Israeli pilots, like Etting, know that they kill children when dropping massive bombs on city centres, but since ...

Civilians trapped in Gaza can't escape Israel's siege

CNBC
https://www.cnbc.com › 2023/10/13 › civilians-trapped-i...
3 days ago — Israel on Monday ordered a total siege of Gaza, cutting off the water, food and electricity for its 2.2 million residents, which is a ...

Israeli pilots refuse to fly assassination missions

The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com › world › sep › israel
24-09-2003 — A group of Israeli airforce pilots declared yesterday that they would refuse to fly missions which could endanger civilians in the West Bank ...

IDF bombed Gaza's high-rises to vent frustration: Israeli pilot

Anadolu Ajansı
https://www.aa.com.tr › middle-east › idf-bombed-gaz...
22-05-2021 — Israel's bombardment of high-rise buildings in the Gaza Strip was a way to vent frustration caused by the failure to stop rocket fire from Gaza, ...

Israeli pilots 'deliberately miss' targets | World news

The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com › world › aug › israel
05-08-2006 — Sources say the pilots were worried that targets had been wrongly identified as Hizbollah facilities.

The newspapers such as the Times of Israel, for example, are remarkably restrained and thoughtful after these terrible atrocities have been committed. Even the the Hamas spokesperson tacitly acknowledges the sheer horror of these acts "We do not kill civilians" etc . If it was such a good thing, how is it you are not proud to proclaim it, then?

Middle East and Africa | An interview with Moussa Abu Marzouk
A Hamas leader refuses to admit his group planned to kill civilians — The Economist

We all have a thread of common humanity, thought for some it flickers, for some it has been snuffed out.

I do not think Iran will get directly involved. The Iran - Iraq war was started by Iraq, and Iraq has too much to lose. Iran can channel their efforts through Hezbollah, though.

Who is Hezbello

What I'm reading is that the biggest inhibitor to Hezbollah's involvement is that Lebanon is already totally economically — Wayfarer

Looks like you are right. I had no idea that they were facing opposition in Lebanon. They have to tread very carefully here.

Military experience gained from fighting in Syria’s civil war and decades of clashes with Israel has strengthened the Iran-backed group, but politically, its clout among Lebanon’s populace may be waning. — CFR

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-hezbollah

Psychology Today is a fake science journal written by journalists whose opinions are as whimsical as the requests of their editors. Where are their references to alleged systematic analysis to unitary retaliatory approach? Perhaps personal surveys of news clippings from Pravda? — magritte

What PT says makes sense to me.

The question to ask is, is this mass hysteria or mass schizophrenia, or is is there a cause - by cause I mean a reason, right or wrong - for their actions?

In fact, the few studies that have directly examined the mental status of captured terrorists have failed to disclose significant signs of intellectual impairment or serious mental disorder. What these individuals do show is a heightened ability to rationalize and compartmentalize their violent motives and activities, believing that these are necessary actions in fighting for their cause: Evil transformed into nobility. But ideology is not psychopathology, so these individuals fully know what they’re doing and willfully, indeed enthusiastically, do it. — Psychology Today

Apparently all you need is a cause. There are enough causes today, given that human beings are what they are. Anyone attacks a community, for example, here the Israelis, and some of them, now the people in power, but someone at any rate, will respond with force. You cannot do anything about the demographics of a society, there are always those, and you will find them among your friends and relatives, who see responding with violence as a right thing to do. I do not see the other side as any different.

The function of the government is to keep the peace, and stop violence from breaking out. To stop anything that may snowball into a armed conflict before it is too late. It is as important as clean water and food and electricity.

I know of people who have joined the armed forces. I have spoken to people who support armed forces, and army personnel have spoken to terrorist supporters. (not in the this region, though). Did they join to commit atrocities? Were they ordered to? Did their compatriots attack people while they did nothing? How do you know the group you join is not going to violate human rights either individually or collectively?

I remember what it was like when I was a young man. I thought nothing could ever hurt me, and even if it did, it was worth it. One does not think about the legitimacy of the cause, or more importantly, what orders you will be given, will they be 'legal' orders or not? It is all the glory of war. Of course the Hamas terrorists knew they will be killing civilians. All I am saying is that in any society there are people willing to go this far. I have seen this. Stop them before they start.

What these individuals do show is a heightened ability to rationalize and compartmentalize their violent motives and activities, believing that these are necessary actions in fighting for their cause:

Plenty of causes out there. Remove the causes.