killing members of the group
causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
forcibly transferring children of the group to another group — Benkei
'Ethnic cleansing' seems more apt than genocide. — bert1
Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. — 1 Samuel 15:3
And he took Agag the king of the Amalekites alive, and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword. — 1 Samuel 15:8
That would actually be the least of their problems.For many Western countries the issue of the current conflict is also linked to the presence of an angry Arab/Muslim community which is much larger than the Jewish community (in many European countries at least, not in the US). — neomac
Russia has attacked already two countries and wants to annex large parts of Ukraine. Russia is a threat to EU and NATO member states. It's quite different than a terrorist organization. Hence there is no similar unified response from the EU as there was in this case as there was in the case of Ukraine.France and Germany had and may still have different views from the US on Ukraine, yet this didn’t prevent them from aligning with converging policies and/or narratives when needed. — neomac
I'm sorry, is Israel an ally of NATO? Has Israel committed ever troops or assistance to help any other country than itself? Is it a member of EU? First and foremost, the US is an ally to Israel that is basically the only advance country which the US funds. Only time when foreign countries have gotten more is when a) US has invaded them or b) the Ukraine war.If we agree that a system of alliance is part of the survival kit of any state in the international arena — neomac
As the interview I above posted, yes, lot of that 14 billion weapons aid will go to weapons development.AND a larger alliance is better than a smaller alliance to the extent economic, political and security policies and capacities can converge to maximise efficacy in reaching desired outcomes, then Israel on its side has lots of economic, technological, military, intelligence, geographic and political assets that it’s definitely worth preserving as an ally. — neomac
Yet they have (large) increase in population, so it’s a highly unnsuccessful one? — schopenhauer1
For many Western countries the issue of the current conflict is also linked to the presence of an angry Arab/Muslim community which is much larger than the Jewish community (in many European countries at least, not in the US). — neomac
That would actually be the least of their problems.
The perpetual war in the Middle East simply has had and will have a destabilizing effect and unlike the US, European countries will have to deal with the flow of refugees because the Israel and the Levant is in the Mediterranean and not on the Caribian Sea. What will Bibi afterwards with the 2,2 million Palestinians as Israel likely kill only some tens of thousands of them in this war? Or, Lebanon, which basically is now bankrupt and facing, has already 1,5 million refugees from Syria. Hence if the war escalates into Bibi vowing to destroy Hezbollah, Lebanon turning into a battlefield can cause huge amounts of refugee flight again.
Then the war can destabilize countries like Egypt and not Lebanon, that do have a peace agreement with Israel and does have a population that generally despises what Israel is doing. When Egypt had it's brief encounter with democracy, the only organized opposition group won, which wasn't actually so eager anymore to hold on to the peace agreement in all cases. — ssu
France and Germany had and may still have different views from the US on Ukraine, yet this didn’t prevent them from aligning with converging policies and/or narratives when needed. — neomac
Russia has attacked already two countries and wants to annex large parts of Ukraine. Russia is a threat to EU and NATO member states. It's quite different than a terrorist organization. Hence there is no similar unified response from the EU as there was in this case as there was in the case of Ukraine. — ssu
If we agree that a system of alliance is part of the survival kit of any state in the international arena — neomac
I'm sorry, is Israel an ally of NATO? Has Israel committed ever troops or assistance to help any other country than itself? Is it a member of EU? First and foremost, the US is an ally to Israel that is basically the only advance country which the US funds. — ssu
AND a larger alliance is better than a smaller alliance to the extent economic, political and security policies and capacities can converge to maximise efficacy in reaching desired outcomes, then Israel on its side has lots of economic, technological, military, intelligence, geographic and political assets that it’s definitely worth preserving as an ally. — neomac
As the interview I above posted, yes, lot of that 14 billion weapons aid will go to weapons development.
But why not then do this with the allies that actually come to help the US in it's wars? Why not for example the UK? Give them the aid to make new joint ventures on new weapon systems with the British! They would be very happy if the "special relationship" with the US really would be a special relationship. They have a sound, well function military industrial complex I think better than Israel. Especially after the disaster of Brexit, they need friends. The British have gone with you to into Afghanistan, into Iraq, defended Kuwait alongside the US. Israel has not. Wouldn't it be more reasonable to help and improve the armed forces of your ally that for example can help you all around the World (like with AUKUS), including in the Far East?
Why not the British? They are easier and less problematic than Bibi.
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Oh but I forget: Israel's security and objectives are the objectives of the US. In that order. Because... Judeo-Christian heritage, because Israel is a democracy, etc. — ssu
Reasonable guy that makes good points from someone who was up close with the group. He represents a badly needed moderate position. — schopenhauer1
I agree that the compulsive response will exhaust its impetus. Actually Joe Biden's advice was good on the failures that the US did in 9/11. The Hamas terrorist attack shouldn't be viewed as: Great! Now we can deal with every enemy we have because we will have the support of the traumatized population.My idea is that Nathanyahu’s compulsive response will exhaust its impetus, the US will have the best opportunity for diplomatically pressing his ousting as well as a significant change in Israel political strategy toward the Palestinian issue. — neomac
Please tell me, what just that "strategic cooperation" is in the case of Israel.Right, Israel is a Western ally as much as Japan can be, through the strategic cooperation with the US, the leader of the Western alliance. — neomac
Umm... isn't the US and Egypt in good terms too? Wouldn't geopolitically the stability of Egypt be here more important? The Suez canal is in Egypt. Btw, those gas fields that Israel has aren't so important. And as Israeli is a very wealthy country, I guess it does have a lot of internet cables.To which I would add: the geographic location of Israel (like the proximity to the Suez Canal and its strategic relevance for the traffic of oil, gas, commerce, the internet cables) — neomac
it makes a huge difference, because it's evidence of the claim. — flannel jesus
Evidence? You mean like Israeli politicians admitting intent, and decades of Israeli policy we can fall back on?
It's an open and shut case. — Tzeentch
Ok, if that is the case, then both sides can be considered "genocidal" in their intentions. — schopenhauer1
But if we start throwing around terms that matter because of their intent, ... — schopenhauer1
killing members of the group
causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part — Benkei
:100:Israel has a history of ethnic cleansing, apartheid and other human rights violations that skirt the lines of genocide. We see the intent put into practice on a large scale. — Tzeentch
The Allies certainly committed their share of war crimes (e.g. Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki ...)Did the Allies commit genocide [war crimes] against populations of Axis powers? — RogueAI
Evidence? You mean like Israeli politicians admitting intent, and decades of Israeli policy we can fall back on? — Tzeentch
I'm claiming that Allied war crimes were morally equivalent to Axis war crimes insofar as they were both war crimes. Your special pleading is what's absurd, sir. Inform yourself. — 180 Proof
That question is too vague.Even though the Allies committed war crimes, they were morally superior to the Axis. Is that correct? — RogueAI
That question is too vague. — 180 Proof
Does the committing of Allied war crimes entail a moral equivalence between the Allies and Axis?
— RogueAI
Yes. What makes actions "war crimes" is that, to begin with they are not self-defensive, they are gratuitous, etc. — 180 Proof
I'm claiming that Allied war crimes were morally equivalent to Axis war crimes insofar as they were both war crimes. Your special pleading is what's absurd, sir. Inform yourself.
— 180 Proof
OK, so there is a moral equivalence between Axis and Allies viz-a-viz war crimes, but the war crime moral equivalence does not create an overall moral equivalence between the two? Even though the Allies committed war crimes, they were morally superior to the Axis. Is that correct? — RogueAI
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