Sure, so? If he wants to criticise the Christian God on moral matters, then he should take the moral framework that Christians hold to, not one that he has invented. — Agustino
Did you get high marks at school just because you had a long time to answer the questions? — Agustino
In some regards yes, but not in all of them. With regards to morality - at least the morality we speak about - yes. — Agustino
No, you don't control the general tendencies you or your mind has. But you can still choose to give in to them or resist them. For example, if you're a person who is very tormented by lust, you may not choose that, but you certainly do choose whether you give in to it or not. — Agustino
No. Looking (actively) after a woman with lust is an action, not just a desire or an inclination.But didnt Jesus condemn not only the actions but the inclinations towards an action too? — Beebert
That's a strawman though.Critizicing free will as a concept is part of nu critique against christianity's "moral framework", Because if fails to tell the truth already there. — Beebert
No, but I don't make claims about who the greatest mystic is.No I have not read all mystics. So? Have you? — Beebert
I do believe in the Trinity, so I'm not sure what you meant :sThen you should adhere to trinitarian theology, heretic. — Heister Eggcart
I'm not very familiar with bipolar so I won't comment. But narcissists CAN choose whether to lie or not. They have a tendency towards lying, meaning that's the first thing that comes to their minds, but that doesn't mean they cannot oppose that tendency and not act on it.Let me guess, you also think that narcissists choose whether to lie or not, or that someone suffering from bipolar disorder can pause right before a manic episode whether or not they're going to lose their mind. Sure. Makes total sense, (Y) — Heister Eggcart
Thanks, that looks quite detailed, will have a look soon!Anyway, despite having said that, there may actually be moral agents in involved. An idea I have found intriguing is that Satan and his fallen angels are behind what is labeled natural evil. See here: http://reknew.org/2008/01/satan-and-the-corruption-of-nature-seven-arguments/ — Thorongil
DBH?Regardless, there is still a problem here. I would refer you to the DBH quote once again. — Thorongil
Yes I will call all your statements strawmen if you keep strawmanning. That's not under my control what you say or do. But to say for example that you don't decide what you desire, and therefore you don't have free will (in the Christian sense) is a shameless strawman.well of you call ny statements a strawman, then we might as well finish this discussion by saying something obvious: All metaphysical talk is a strawman. — Beebert
Ah okay, I see, thanks for clarifying that. I agree with that quote, but obviously I don't think the actions in themselves of earthquakes, etc. are immoral. Rather they're amoral. But obviously from the POV of humans it's not right to be killed if you are innocent - and volcanoes, earthquakes, etc. take no regard of whether you're innocent or not. So it's a problem in-so-far as it's a harm, but if there is no intention behind it, it cannot be morally evil.David Bentley Hart. I quoted him. — Thorongil
If I believe whether it's possible, then maybe! X-) God doesn't have the limitations of logic, being the source of both logic and illogic.2+2=5 is a logical contradiction, do you believe that, too? >:O — Heister Eggcart
What does creation ex nihilo have to do with free will?To my ears, creation ex nihilo is a mockery of the whole concept of freedom. And of Free will. — Beebert
No I don't say that. You need grace to hear about God, but you've already heard about God. I don't think God withholds grace from anyone.But yet, you as a Christian say that I can not come to God by my free choice without him making me able to through his grace right? — Beebert
Simple. Keep wanting that, but don't act on it. You don't control what you want. So you pray for the strength to resist that urge/temptation, and for God to hopefully lift it away (but this may never be granted - the possibility of not acting on the urge and discovering your own freedom through that is sufficient). Also, if you don't get a miracle for yourself, you may be a miracle for someone else, by showing them that it is possible to live with such a condition!If I want to destroy myself, but I dont want to want that, what shall I then do? Change my Will? — Beebert
God may certainly want this. Resisting the urge/temptation is a great thing - it is finding your own freedom. Your own freedom cannot be found except in the opposition to such urges.So then how can I be sure that is not what God wants? — Beebert
Yeah so what? :s logical possibility tells me jack shit about anything anyway. It's logically possible I'll wake up a duck tomorrow, logically possible the sun won't rise, etc. etc. Logical possibility is such bullshit anyway, might as well get rid of it completely. Utter nonsense this logical possibility, tells me jack shit about the world.Take logic away, and anything is possible. Yet, clearly you don't believe every possibility. — Heister Eggcart
"extend"? I thought we've already clarified eternity isn't infinite temporal duration.Why do you Christians and your God extend that in to all eternity? — Beebert
You're given the opportunity to play a part, do you want to waste it?I am FORCED to play a part in God's mean little muppet show — Beebert
We've already gone through this. Please re-read the corresponding answer. You've never addressed it.Romans 9. Try Reading that with an honest mind. Or all those parts in the "gospel" of John where he talks about how many of the jews not Only did not choose to Believe, But COULD NOT believe because God has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts. — Beebert
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