"In making this statement Huxley has stepped outside the province of science, for a scientist can neither assert nor deny the existence of purpose in nature (...)" — Andrew4Handel
Yes, natural selection, while selecting remarkably well for attributes that increase reproductive success (actually reproduction, successful child-rearing and protection), — Michael Ossipoff
These identity cards formed part of the later Genocide. — Andrew4Handel
"Yes, natural selection, while selecting remarkably well for attributes that increase reproductive success (actually reproduction, successful child-rearing and protection)," — Michael Ossipoff
Are you suggesting that natural selection will be weeding out Gay people? This type of reasoning, perpetuated by science, is as least as distasteful as any religious teaching along the same lines. Nazism was fed by this type of scientism. — Rich
Natural selection suggests that gay-ness must have an environmental component. — Michael Ossipoff
And no, the suggestion of an environmental component to gay-ness doesn't feed Nazism. But anti-science advocacy does.
And no, the suggestion of an environmental component to gay-ness doesn't feed Nazism. But anti-science advocacy does. — Michael Ossipoff
Why is it that you can't answer a simple question? You avoiding it just shows that you aren't being intellectually honest. I've addressed and answered your questions, yet you cannot do the same. It's getting to the point where you are insulting my intelligence and wasting my time.There is no reason for minds to exist. The only valid explanation is an explanation of how consciousness is produced. — Andrew4Handel
Okay, finally. Some of these have to do with surviving in the social environment (composing symphonies, language, etc.) and some have to do with filtering behavior (sexual pleasure, pain, etc.). What about learning new skills and filtering your instinctual behavior in social environments? When learning something new, your attention (consciousness) is focused on the task at hand. Only after you have acquired the instructions (stored them in long term memory) can you then perform the task without much attention to it. Why would consciousness be fully focused on a new task but then relegate it to a background task (on auto pilot) once you are able to repeat the skill without much attention to it?Consciousness is involved in numerous things, composing symphonies, language, doing math, reading books, sexual pleasure, pain, concept formation, thought, dreaming ad infinitum. — Andrew4Handel
And I asked about how natural selection has molded the brain, which is a biochemical organ, and how that isn't selection for fitter brains and minds. All you do is repeat yourself without answering the pointed questions that I pose.The explanation for biology is biochemical and refers to specific biochemical behaviours,it is not "evolutionary". Natural selection can only select something after it begins to exist it can't produce consciousness (or gills) on demand. conscious has to begin to exist before it can be of any use. — Andrew4Handel
I have proposed an argument - that the mind has evolved as a result of environmental selection pressures and that consciousness improves evolutionary fitness. How else can you explain how human beings have spread across the planet and manipulates his environment and the complex social environment (which is really just a kind of natural environment)? So you haven't taken the time to watch any of the videos?You haven't really proposed any argument apart from telling people watch this etc I have a degree in psychology and philosophy. I know how neurons work and about different brain structures, I know about fMRI etc (I had to write a critical essay on brain scanning techniques) etc and studied the search for neural correlates. I had to read seven books on the philosophy of mind for my course and I have also read Dennets Consciousness explained. — Andrew4Handel
We do think in images. We are visual creatures. Most of our terms that we use are visual terms. I don't know how many times I've posted the story of the Man with No Words:I watched a video by Stephen Pinker where he claimed "We think in images" But I don't I think in words. That to me is poor quality broadcasting that youtubers are liking unreflectively. — Andrew4Handel
Camouflage is a solution as long as any hungry predator in the vicinity uses vision to locate prey. I never said that they would be perfect or final.Something is only a solution if the environment is consistent day in day out. — Andrew4Handel
It seems like Evolutionary psychology is trying to be deterministic and predict what behaviours we ought to automatically exhibit. So that all behaviour must subsume under an evolutionary paradox even if there is no plausible reason linking it to whatever model of evolution they are using.
Heterosexuality is not explained yet it is taken for granted because of it obvious benefits to gene transmission/reproduction. — Andrew4Handel
We do think in images — Harry Hindu
..
And we've now reached a point where natural selection pretty much no longer applies to humans. The 'weak' humans end up being raised into adulthood, with just as much opportunity to reproduce as the 'strong' ones. Unless we start picking and choosing who can have children, I don't foresee any further advancement of our physical and mental abilities.
.I don't understand how natural selection can select something if it doesn't already exist. Hence we are left with the issue of how these emergent properties come to exist.
.People seem to be conflating the benefit of a trait with a causal explanation.
.This is another abuse of "hierarchies"
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"1920s, Belgian ethnologists analysed (measured skulls, etc.) thousands of Rwandans on analogous racial criteria, such as which would be used later by the Nazis. In 1931, an ethnic identity was officially mandated and administrative documents systematically detailed each person's "ethnicity,". Each Rwandan had an ethnic identity card.[11"
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These identity cards formed part of the later Genocide.
.Since Evolution is indistinguishable from other Western religions…
.…, it would make sense that adherents would draw the same conclusions, e.g. being Gay (or any other target minority group) is unnatural and is a target for extinction.
.This the Nazis could justify the murder of tens of millions of people by simply suggesting that they were agents of the natural universe. Similarly, the Inquisition could be justified as the adherents being agents of The Lord.
.We can thus view Evolution and religion as a battle for the hearts and souls of fatalists (determinists) who embrace the concept of an outside force directing the Universe.
“Natural selection suggests that gay-ness must have an environmental component.” — Michael Ossipoff
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The discussion is about the all-powerful force called Natural Selection which was totally concocted by science
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Science didn’t concoct evolution; it discovered evolution.
.and which seems to be obsessed with reproduction
(something Freudian going on here)
.. Apparently, according to this reproduction obsession, Natural Selection is weeding out all those that aren't equally obsessed.
.It's all about procreation? Sounds very strange to me.
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“And no, the suggestion of an environmental component to gay-ness doesn't feed Nazism. But anti-science advocacy does. “—Michael Ossipoff
If theres an environmental aspect to Gayness that can make one Gay, there has to be one that can make one straight.
., but theres neither.
.“And no, the suggestion of an environmental component to gay-ness doesn't feed Nazism. But anti-science advocacy does.” — Michael Ossipoff
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Nazism was entirely technology driven, and after the war the U.S. used many Nazi for our missile program.
As far as ideology was concerned, the concept of the survival of the fittest race was music to their ears. They actually set up labs that experimented on humans (in the most barbaric ways) trying to figure out ways to exterminated faster. It was all about Natural Selection and the survival of the fittest.
.Natural selection can only select something after it begins to exist. it can't produce consciousness (or gills) on demand. conscious has to begin to exist before it can be of any use. — Andrew4Handel
.You haven't really proposed any argument apart from telling people watch this etc I have a degree in psychology and philosophy. I know how neurons work and about different brain structures, I know about fMRI etc (I had to write a critical essay on brain scanning techniques) etc and studied the search for neural correlates. I had to read seven books on the philosophy of mind for my course and I have also read Dennets Consciousness explained. — Andrew4Handel
.I have proposed an argument - that the mind has evolved as a result of environmental selection pressures and that consciousness improves evolutionary fitness.
Heterosexuality is not explained yet it is taken for granted because of it obvious benefits to gene transmission/reproduction. — Andrew4Handel
You say that it isn’t explained, and then you give its obvious explanation.
.Alright, enough troll-engaging, evolution-defending, and science-defending.
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As I said, I’m at this forum to discuss metaphysics.
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Michael Ossipoff
Heterosexuality is not explained yet it is taken for granted because of it obvious benefits to gene transmission/reproduction. — Andrew4Handel
“And no, the suggestion of an environmental component to gay-ness doesn't feed Nazism. But anti-science advocacy does. “—Michael Ossipoff
If theres an environmental aspect to Gayness that can make one Gay, there has to be one that can make one straight.
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Of course. But there’s also a blatantly-obvious natural-selection influence too.
, "but theres neither."
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That’s your scientific pronouncement?I stated an obvious reason why, in view of natural-selection, a strong environmental influence is needed to explain gay-ness.
If theres an environmental aspect to Gayness that can make one Gay, there has to be one that can make one straight, but theres neither. Gay people mostly come out and mostly have come out of predominantly Straight communities and most of the children raised by Gay parents have turned out straight.
Consciousness is used as an obfuscatory way to refer to the fact that animals react to their surroundings. — Michael Ossipoff
And we've now reached a point where natural selection pretty much no longer applies to humans. The 'weak' humans end up being raised into adulthood, with just as much opportunity to reproduce as the 'strong' ones. Unless we start picking and choosing who can have children, I don't foresee any further advancement of our physical and mental abilities. — CasKev
Heterosexuality is obviously the normal instinct, as it is essentially required for continuation of the species. — CasKev
Is it possible that homosexuality is just a bug in the human reproductive program, rather than an emergent trait with evolutionary implications? Heterosexuality is obviously the normal instinct, as it is essentially required for continuation of the species. Homosexuality may just be a flaw in the system that occurs when a human is first forming, where a male brain gets paired with female sex organs, or vice versa. There is no hereditary component other than continuation of the chance of the flaw occurring, because there are no homosexual sex organs, only mismatched bodies and brains. — CasKev
Is it possible that homosexuality is just a bug in the human reproductive program, rather than an emergent trait with evolutionary implications? Heterosexuality is obviously the normal instinct, as it is essentially required for continuation of the species. Homosexuality may just be a flaw in the system that occurs when a human is first forming, where a male brain gets paired with female sex organs, or vice versa. There is no hereditary component other than continuation of the chance of the flaw occurring, because there are no homosexual sex organs, only mismatched bodies and brains.
— CasKev
Michael Ossipoff
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"That’s your scientific pronouncement?I stated an obvious reason why, in view of natural-selection, a strong environmental influence is needed to explain gay-ness."--Michael Ossipoff
You did nothing of the kind; your reason was neither obvious nor correct. — Thanatos Sand
And it's really lame to reduce my statement to three words from the middle statement and treat it like my complete one. If you have faith in your incorrect view, at least address my entire statement. You have failed to do so, so far. Here it is:
If theres an environmental aspect to Gayness that can make one Gay, there has to be one that can make one straight, but theres neither. Gay people mostly come out and mostly have come out of predominantly Straight communities and most of the children raised by Gay parents have turned out straight.
I hasten to add that no one is implying a value-judgement. Just a mechanism.
Michael Ossipoff
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