"Efram
I won't actively participate in this thread, but I wanted to throw this into the mix: There has been historic slavery of white people. For some reason this gets ignored in favour of a narrative where white people are always and only the oppressors. Anyway, it's something for you to Google."

Oh boy....the "whites were slaves, too" narrative so popular among White supremacists.

I never called you a White supremacist; so you need to improve your reading, too. It's clear the one who was wasting their time was me with you...:)

And the fact we're discussing the enslavement of millions of Blacks in America, and you bring up the comparatively miniscule amount of White slaves says a lot about your priorities

Yes, clearly so. That was perhaps the most uncharitable, and unnecessarily hostile, reading of my posts that I've ever seen in the 15 years or so of posting both here and at the old Philosophy Forum. But apparently I'm the one with questionable reading skills.

I will acknowledge that he (she?) made a few interesting and valid points in previous posts, but it's best the conversation ended quickly with our petty digs at each other.

The only nauseating self-righteousness, and nauseating dishonesty, is yours, as you were clearly emphasizing "anti-White" rhetoric. — Thanatos Sand

That Thanatos would assume that I was ONLY referring to anti-white rhetoric in what I wrote, and 'clearly' so, simply because I interpreted what he said in previous posts as evidence of demonization in general, is IMO crazy. Literally. Here's what I said:

Also, I don't think harboring deep grudges against people of other races automatically leads to taking immediate, violent and retributory action against them. This just isn't a feasible course of action for an individual or a group to take, especially among those socially and politically marginalized, unless of course you're willing to die yourself or be sent to prison for a very long time.I would imagine, however, that the first step in the direction of violence is to demonize or dehumanize your perceived enemy. That much seems obvious, and some of the rhetoric I'm witnessing these days tends in that direction, even yours here which vilifies white people to a certain extent, and perhaps rightly so given our dark history. European Antisemitism predated the Holocaust, for instance, and the latter was only possible once these historical resentments against Jews became aligned with political power capable of acting upon them. — Erik

The topic that interested me was whether racial animus--which I pointed out involved 'both' sides--is increasing or decreasing at present. I even said on a couple occasions that I hope he was right in his estimation that it was decreasing. These and other conciliatory comments were conveniently ignored, as were others such as this:

I'll acknowledge the obvious inhumane treatment that non-whites have been subjected to, I will search out wisdom and excellence form any source, regardless of skin color, and do other things that I feel are consistent with the desire to increase racial harmony and understanding. — Erik

Thoughts such as these (in hindsight somewhat trite, but written in a spirit of sincerity) are, according to the superior wisdom of Thanatos, indicative of my 'troubling views clearly simmering beneath.'

Anyhow that's it for me. Just wanted to expose him for making wild assumptions based upon certain things I said (and didn't say) which he felt implied other, predictably more nefarious things. What's even more upsetting is that he had the nerve to hide behind the 'I never said that' routine when things he IMO clearly implied (e.g. that Efram was a white supremacist) were mentioned.

Except your problem, and its a racist one, is you see Whites fighting for equality and human rights for Blacks as "Black supremacists." — Thanatos Sand

I didn't say that. I don't mean that either. All I'm asking for is the possibility that such a black man/woman may exist. The story I weaved was intended only to provide some background on what I was aiming at. Perhaps its was sloppily written and thought. Sorry.

My question is:

Does a black man who's a white supremacist exist? What can we know if such a man/woman exists?

To support the question's validity rememeber the movie Django in which there's a slave (Samuel L Jackson) who loves his white master (Leornado di Caprio). It's fiction but it asks the same question.

What an absolute farce of a question. — StreetlightX

Can you please read this

Thanks for the reply.

So, you do agree that it's possible for a black person to be a white supremacist. Where is this person? Given the harsh reactions re racial supremacy of any kind, is s/he hiding? Also, how does such a person's worldview adhere to reality? How does s/he the contradiction entailed by such a sentiment viz. being black and wanting equality and being a white supremacist and wanting the contrary?

Yes I agree. There are different shades of meaning and interpretation to the question. Thanks.

However, I'm looking for a black person who's a white supremacist. Either s/he exists or not.

If s/he exists how does s/he deal with the obvious contradiction of such a worldview?

If s/he doesn't exist, why? As you mentioned in your post there are so many hues to race and culture. Surely, in this smorgasbord of possibilities there must be such a person.

Thanks for your post. So, there are black people who, at a very minimum, want to be white. How do they resolve the contradiction in their worldview?

If you want to do your part to end racism, reject the myth of biological race. — WISDOMfromPO-MO

Yes. We're all the same species. Biologically, we all have the same stuff. There are differences though and these are held to be significant by all parties
See here

So, my concern is how does the black person who's a white supremacist make sense of it all. It's a veritable contradiction.

Yes I agree. There are different shades of meaning and interpretation to the question. Thanks.

However, I'm looking for a black person who's a white supremacist. Either s/he exists or not.

If s/he exists how does s/he deal with the obvious contradiction of such a worldview?

If s/he doesn't exist, why? As you mentioned in your post there are so many hues to race and culture. Surely, in this smorgasbord of possibilities there must be such a person. — TheMadFool

Like others, I think I'm having a hard time understanding your question, MadFool. Speaking for myself, I find the notion of white supremacy to be extremely confused. It would obviously involve the belief that white people are superior to non-whites in some way(s). But what would these be?

The very notion of 'whiteness'--which seems so obvious before thinking it through--appears to be a vague and largely artificial concept, which upon further reflection typically leads to more confusion than clarity.

Is whiteness strictly biological? Or, as I conjectured previously, is it more indicative of specific cultural traits? Something like a European civilization which combines elements of ancient Greek philosophy, Judeo-Christian religion, modern science and rationality, etc? Is that what we're referring to when we speak of whiteness? If so that's problematic too, once we consider that the tradition is not a unified and completed whole, but one that's fluid, contradictory, and exhibiting influences (e.g. Christianity) that clearly did not originate with Europeans.

So in the end there's no stable 'white' identity to be found--on any grounds--and therefore the notion of white supremacy doesn't make much sense. Any general notion of whiteness must ignore massive differences in terms of language, culture, region, history, religion, occupation, education, socio-economic status, and many, many other things.

Same goes for the notion of blackness, although a sense of shared identity based upon a common struggle against oppression could ground that racial identity in ways not normally available to white people. Just seems like one aspect of our being is highlighted and elevated to a place of prominence that it may not deserve. That being said, these abstractions have had concrete consequences on peoples' lives, and in that sense have become a part of our shared reality.

But as a white guy from southern California, do I have more in common with a black person who lives nearby and works with me, or a white person from, say, the Deep South who inhabits a world vastly different from mine?

And your example of Django may not be the best one to use, although I'll admit I'm going off your brief description of the relationship between two characters and haven't seen the movie. Does the black slave love his white master as an individual man he's grown close to on a personal level? or rather as a man qua member of a race he perceives to be superior?

Whatever the case, it would appear that the hypothetical black person you're looking for would have to first essentialize whiteness and blackness--in ways that probably won't stand up to scrutiny--before moving on to posit the superiority of the one over the other. He can't identify with the master on biological grounds so there must be something else going on.

Again, I think the only realistic possibility of resolving the contradictory worldview would be to separate the biological from the metaphysical. The 'black white supremacist' could look at his racial makeup as being of little significance, while freely choosing to identify with what he finds to be a superior culture that he associates with people whose skin color normally (but not necessarily) happens to be white. In other words, his identity is grounded in culture rather than race.

In the end it all seems a bit arbitrary and confused. People can and do concoct strange reasons to believe strange things. I'm surely not impervious to this tendency, as much as I'd like to believe otherwise.

But please provide more detailed info regarding what you think whiteness entails, and the possible reasons you could imagine a black person would have for identifying with whites who oppress him and others of similar racial background. Perhaps you have something in mind much simpler than the muddled mess I just created?

Except your problem, and its a racist one, is you see Whites fighting for equality and human rights for Blacks as "Black supremacists."
— Thanatos Sand

I didn't say that. I don't mean that either.

You absolutely did say that in your post below:

And I have no idea if there a Black White supremacist. Why do you ask
— Thanatos Sand

What kind of a worldview would such a person have? It would be self-contradictory at its foundation. Being Black and anti-Black at the same time.

The inquiry is legitmate because the opposite is true. We have white people who are anti-white by supporting racial equality.

If you didn't mean that, you need to define what you mean by "black man who's a white supremacist"

You absolutely did say that in your post below — Thanatos Sand

Sorry. It does read like that. But did you read unenlightened's post? Here it is

You see?

What are your comments about unenlightened's post?

Please read unenlightened's post (above).

It captures the essence of what I mean. You seem to be unable to see the difference between white and black people, although, you do mention the ''struggle against oppression'' that, in a way, unifies black people. Look at the flip side - Nazi Germany. It was based on racial superiority of the Aryan race. Can you find the difference between Black and White somewhere between Nazism and slavery?

Anyway, drawing from unenlightened's post, I think it's reasonable to posit the existence of a black white supremacist. I want to know how s/he deals with the contradiction of being black, wanting equality and endorsing the superiority of the white race.

You absolutely did say that in your post below — Thanatos Sand
Sorry. It does read like that. But did you read unenlightened's post? Here it is

You see?

What are your comments about unenlightened's post? — TheMadFool

Of course it reads that way, and your failure to show how it doesn't after I showed it does helps prove it. The fact you continue to fail to actually define what you mean by "black man whos a white supremacist" helps prove I'm right.

So, since you're just repeating your erroneous, unfounded claims, we're done. I won't be reading or responding to any more of your posts.