Just meditate

These are the 3 stages you will go through during and after death

Wakeful state
Dream state
Dreamless state

Then comes the unconditoned state, which isn't even a state, but it goes beyond all the 3 stages above

You will return to who you were before you were born, bare consciousness. This consciousness is present behind even rocks and trees

Thank you for your advice. I meditate daily but I haven't experienced death yet. How do you know this?

I meditate daily but I haven't experienced death yet. — Truth Seeker

Not even in your dreams?

I don't think imagining or dreaming of one's death is anything like dying. In actual death, the body is involved: most fatal processes are painful. Pain doesn't leave much room in one's mind for any other thoughts. On the verge of actual death, people either struggle to avoid it or surrender to it as a release from suffering.

You end. No consciousness. No continuation. You're dead. Some might think this is terrifying or hurts your feelings. Don't. Understanding what death is, is one of the greatest gifts you can have to live life to its fullest.

If you're sacrificing today for a reward later, don't. Sacrifice because you believe it creates a better world for today and the future.

If you're afraid of trying new things you really want to because it might make life uncomfortable, overcome that fear.

You only live once. No one will ever know what you experience but you. No one will know your story fully but you. The last thing you want in your last dying moments is regret at not having done enough with the time you had.

Love it. Appreciate it. Because eventually it will be gone.

Thank you very much for your advice. I agree with making the most of one's life by doing what matters to one. What matters the most to me is saving and improving lives. So, I save and improve lives daily.

How do you know that there is no consciousness after brain death? What about all the people who have Recalled Experience of Death (RED) and the stories they tell of visiting other places and the beings they meet there?

No, not even in my dreams. I have experienced being close to death but I have never actually died. I nearly died by drowning when I was four years and nine months old. There have been many times when I thought that I would die but I didn't. I have witnessed many deaths.

I agree.

How do you know that there is no consciousness after brain death? — Truth Seeker

Isn't that a self-answering question? Brain>consciousness. Dead brain>no consciousness.
People tell all kinds of stories about things they saw and experienced while other people thought they were dead. My guess is that they were not dead, but hallucinating or dreaming - possibly during the seconds they were regaining consciousness. My reason for that guess is the number of times I've been unconscious due to anesthetic during which I experienced nothing and from which I recall nothing, until I was coming back to awareness. Some of my vivid and bizarre dreams take place just as I'm waking up. These are the dreams one is most likely to remember.

How do you know that the brain causes consciousness? I have met people who believe that the brain, the body, the Earth, and the universe are all parts of an illusion called Maya. According to them, souls reincarnate in Maya according to karma accrued in the previous life. It is impossible to prove or disprove this claim.

I have also met people who believe that souls pilot brains and are judged by God on Judgement Day which will occur sometime in the future. It is impossible to prove or disprove this claim, too.

So, is the brain real? Is the soul real? Are both brains and souls real? Are God or Gods real? Is resurrection real? Is reincarnation real? By the word "real" I mean that they actually exist as opposed to believed to exist.

I have experienced general anaesthesia 11 times so I can relate to what you experienced.

How do you know that there is no consciousness after brain death? What about all the people who have Recalled Experience of Death (RED) and the stories they tell of visiting other places and the beings they meet there? — Truth Seeker

Very simply, there has never been a case of actual death in these scenarios. Coma or unconsciousness sure, but no one has had brain death, come back, and had an experience during that actual death. The brain is still hearing things around itself, and if the eyes are opened during surgery light is still streaming into the brain. Your ability to consciously realize it isn't fully there, but its still being processed.

Have you ever dreamt before? I've encountered giant gorillas, super natural horrors, and realms beyond normal experience. The brain when devoid of full consciousness still functions and sorts experiences. If it thinks its going to die, then its thoughts can become pre-occupied with that as it struggles to live. Ever had an emotional traumatic experience and dream about it in a way that ends well? Vividness of experience does not require full consciousness. So a vivid experience of an unconscious person is not evidence of an actual death experience.

Did you watch the video in the first post on this thread? In that video, Dr Sam Parnia said that those people actually died and then were brought back to life by medical treatment. This is why he called Near-Death Experience (NDE) to be a misnomer and renamed NDE to Recalled Experience of Death (RED).

Yes, I have had many dreams but the kind of experiences the people in the video spoke of are very different from dreams because they have factual information that was verified by others e.g. a patient told the doctor what the doctor did and even what the doctor was thinking!

You may want to read this review: https://awareofaware.co/2023/05/09/rethinking-death/#:~:text=I%20say%20it%20was%20excellent,a%20couple%20of%20the%20NDEs.

"I have a lot of respect for Parnia and everyone else involved in this, but I find it extremely frustrating that there is data from AWARE II that shows EEG activity consistent with consciousness during CA and CPR after up to an hour (something he alluded to in the panel discussion), and yet they have never stated whether or not any of these EEG events were in patients who reported NDEs. They know, they have the data, so why not share that? I suspect that they have no EEG data at all in those patients as only a small percentage of the entire cohort had EEG data, and most of those sadly did not survive. Why not say that?"

Videos are generally not the best ways of learning about science. Stick to papers if you really want good solid answers. So far my above claim is true: There is no case (to my knowledge) of 100% brain death and people returning with REDs.

Thank you very much for the link. I had not read it before. How does this explain the incident where the patient knew what the doctor was thinking?

How do you know that the brain causes consciousness? — Truth Seeker

Alternative organs have been suggested, but they proved inadequate to the task.
Other explanations involve mysticism and magic, in which I'm not a believer.

It is impossible to prove or disprove this claim. — Truth Seeker

It's not my job to disprove implausible claims.

So, is the brain real? — Truth Seeker

Yup. Seen many; touched some; sliced a few.

Is the soul real? — Truth Seeker

I've no seen evidence of it.

Saaaayyy -- is it really truth you are seeking?

It is definitely the truth that I am seeking. I have sliced some human brains, too. I agree that it's not your job to disprove implausible claims. There are so many untestable hypotheses e.g. the immaterial souls that allegedly exist but brain scanners can't see and invisible gods and angels and demons, etc.

These are the 3 stages you will go through during and after death

Wakeful state
Dream state
Dreamless state

Then comes the unconditoned state, which isn't even a state, but it goes beyond all the 3 stages above

You will return to who you were before you were born, bare consciousness. This consciousness is present behind even rocks and trees — Sirius

How do we demonstrate that certain psychological or mental states, which may happen during meditation or during drug use, are anything more than a subjective experience of brain states?

I don't know.

Exactly. The question is a simple one. How do we demonstrate that the subjective experience described points to anything transcendent? If it's just an inference we are making because we have heard some stories or some books say a thing, then this is inadequate.

How do you know that there is no consciousness after brain death?
— Truth Seeker

Isn't that a self-answering question? Brain>consciousness. Dead brain>no consciousness. — Vera Mont

I am not an expert on consciousness by any means, but couldn't there be at least 2 types: consciousness of the body and consciousness of the mind? If the person is near to death, let's say they had a cardiac arrest, then their brain has stopped functioning (I believe after about 20 seconds they lose (body) consciousness and pass out, as their brain cannot function without oxygen) If the person is seeing things at this stage, then I am guessing that must be due to mind consciousness, such as you describe here:

People tell all kinds of stories about things they saw and experienced while other people thought they were dead. My guess is that they were not dead, but hallucinating or dreaming - possibly during the seconds they were regaining consciousness. My reason for that guess is the number of times I've been unconscious due to anesthetic during which I experienced nothing and from which I recall nothing, until I was coming back to awareness. Some of my vivid and bizarre dreams take place just as I'm waking up. These are the dreams one is most likely to remember. — Vera Mont

This would point to evidence for mind consciousness being separate and not dependent on body consciousness because at that stage the brain would not be functioning.

However, there is a difference between brain death and the brain not functioning (body unconsciousness). Brain death is when the brain has died and the person cannot be brought back to life, therefore, of course, we cannot find out if the mind consciousness continues after brain death because we cannot bring them back to ask them.

You will return to who you were before you were born, bare consciousness. This consciousness is present behind even rocks and trees — Sirius

Ooh, I like that :) Can you tell me more? How do rocks and trees have consciousness? I have had a thought about this, but I just wondered what else has been said about it/what you think.

This would point to evidence for mind consciousness being separate and not dependent on body consciousness because at that stage the brain would not be functioning. — Beverley

Are you saying the brain is part of the body and the mind is not? If so, where does the mind reside? What thinks?

Are you saying the brain is part of the body and the mind is not? If so, where does the mind reside? What thinks? — Vera Mont

First of all, I am just playing with ideas here. I do not really know what I believe about this at the moment. I do have lots of ideas streaming in though. Regarding your question, do you think it possible that the mind 'resides' in the brain and grows/develops there, but can also exist outside the brain too when there is no longer a brain? I mean, when the brain has stopped functioning, if people are still seeing/hearing things etc we could say that it is not the brain that is making the 'person' see/hear etc those things, since the brain is no longer working. If it is the mind that is doing that, then the mind does not rely on the brain at that point. Where the mind might go after death, however, is a strange thought, but if we imagine that the mind is a form of energy, then this is perhaps easier to understand. After all, we accept that energy is all around us, and yet it does not seem to 'reside' anywhere specifically since it is not made of matter. These are just ideas though that have just popped into my head. There could be lots of reasons why they are wrong and don't make sense, but i think they kind of make sense... to me at the moment anyway. I am open to hearing other ideas though.

Thank you very much for the link. I had not read it before. How does this explain the incident where the patient knew what the doctor was thinking? — Truth Seeker

I have not watched the video so could not tell you. However, it appears the video is already circumspect and I would question the rigor of the studies. If the doctor was speaking his thoughts out loud and the patient heard when they were not at brain death, this is not remarkable. This field is rife with inaccurate reporting, stories, and unscientific claims, so extraordinary claims need very tight and clear evidence to be considered seriously.

You keep coming back until you learn that chasing idols (e.g., money, fame, power, substances, etc.) won't make you happy.

:fire:

:100:

:up: :up:

Resuscitation is not resurrection (or reincarnation). Death is irreversible brain decomposition. Unless 'dis-embodied subjectivity' (i.e. flat earth) is the case, "NDE" or "RED" cannot be anything but a false memory illusion. And yes, during my twenties while tripping on various hallucinogens, I had occasionally "recalled being dead" like the song says

She said
I know what it's like to be dead
...
And you're making me feel like
I've never been born

:victory: :cool:

You keep coming back until you learn that chasing idols (e.g., money, fame, power, etc.) won't make you happy. — RogueAI

Or maybe, as Freddy suggests, you "keep coming back" unable to do anything else but watch ourselves make the same good and bad decisions again and again and again ... unless you learn while still alive here and now to be happy – to affirm – eternally reliving every moment of this life: the only life you will ever have.

Amor fati, no?! :death: :flower:

I'd suggest you're asking the wrong people by posting here.

How do you know this?

I understand your point. The doctor did not verbalise his thoughts to anyone so it is extraordinary that the patient knew the doctor's thoughts. The anecdote from the doctor begins at 22:03 on the video.

Question for everyone: who among you watched the video and read the research paper in the first post in this thread?

Dr Sam Parnia and his team seem convinced that the patients met the criteria for clinical death and would not have come back to life without their medical intervention.