Yes, I see. I would agree with you (and with the argument), but an atheist wouldn't grant it, and it seems Feser seems to suggest just about the same towards the end, that it wouldn't be very effective granted the presuppositions of most of today's atheists.
Furthermore, the obvious weakness - an atheist would claim that the desire for God isn't in vain - indeed the desire for God has a reason for its existence (likely to do with increase in fitness/survival) but it has no object since God is an illusion. But then you could structure the argument around this objection. — Agustino
I've read these two.Beyond Good and Evil or the Genealogy of Morals — Beebert
I've never finished The Gay Science.The Gay Science — Beebert
Perhaps you can enlighten me then, what a splendid opportunity for both of us! You can teach me and get joy out of sharing your knowledge, and I can learn something new!I dont mean to be rude, but you have, it seems to me, either misunderstood the real depth behind his thought or you just dont like what you read and judge it by that. — Beebert
But you told me before that that's what he NEEDS God for. But if he doesn't need to blame anyone, then he doesn't need God, so it seems that you're now contradicting what you first said.He does not NEED to, but most people blame their screw ups on someone or something.
Bad luck, god's displeasure with them, allah's will, Murphy' law all get the blame. — Sir2u
In many cases that's absolutely true. I have no clue how some situations quickly and out of nowhere turned from hopeless to my favour. What am I supposed to say? It was due to me? I know it wasn't...They also seem quite willing to let them take the credit for the things that happen in their lives.
I was lucky, god has been good to me, it was allah's will. — Sir2u
Right, but what does this have to do with your weakness? You're weak, you don't want to be weak, therefore your only real hope is God - no other hope can even be conceived.I don't need to blame anyone for the problems in life, unless I know that someone actually caused them.
So I don't need a god, no contradiction at all. — Sir2u
Was his "will to health" helpful in achieving health? In other words how is "willing" something helpful at all? Maybe I "will" to have 10 billion dollars... where are they?! :shis will to health — Beebert
How shall we handle this then?One of his most important concepts is Amor Fati. He knew in a sense man's powerlessness, he wasn't stupid. I find that quite obvious. He spoke about how to handle this situation, one's attitude to life. — Beebert
Yes, I disagree with that. If life is will-to-power then we can never be happy, because we can never achieve power.And regarding the will to power, the most important thing there is his Conviction that it was basically what life was. — Beebert
You are. Any day you could become a bed-ridden person. ALS, a stroke, a car accident - who knows man, who knows. You can't control it.Who says I am weak? — Sir2u
If He proved that He exists, then you would have no free will, for you would be forced to believe. The whole point is that there should be enough light for those who want to believe and enough darkness for those who don't - that was Pascal's point.If my only hope is a god that refuses to even prove it exists — Sir2u
Was his "will to health" helpful in achieving health? In other words how is "willing" something helpful at all? — Agustino
How shall we handle this then? — Agustino
Right, so you don't have any goods to sell then, why should I be interested?Yes and probably, we can never be happy — Beebert
:s - quite the contrary, suffering for God is good in Christianity, why do you think Christianity has all the martyrs that it does?And also that it Said "Suffering is bad and its opposite good". — Beebert
Yes, N was incapable to do this. He had no means.One shall affirm life despite suffering. — Beebert
A childish and stupid idea in the end, for no one can re-live his life anyway.The test of whether he succeded or not is if he would have embraced the idea of re-living this life and fate of his time and time again in all eternity. — Beebert
Yes, he did want, but he never could.Life was, in a sense, just because of his physical health, horrible for him If he would value it in terms of "This is the amount of power I have if I equal power with complete Control over my material physical health and pleasure", but he yet wanted to embrace life. — Beebert
Nietzsche wanted to know the Truth apart from Christ, but there is no such Truth. That is why he concluded that truth is ugly. Yes, the truth of the human condition is ugly, that's exactly why we need the Truth. Instead, he abandoned the Truth for truth - whereas Dostoyevsky would abandon the truth for Christ if he had to (his own statement). This was interesting.He refused other-worldliness because it was for him a Sign of giving up embracing his life despite all his suffering. Him Walking around in his physical pain and waiting for something better Beyond was for him equal to nihilism. — Beebert
Calling it human does not change its wretchedness.None of that makes me weak, it just makes me human. You are going in circles with that. — Sir2u
How could you choose to not believe if God fully revealed Himself? If you cannot choose to not believe (except in bad faith), then on this question you wouldn't have free will.So it doesn't reveal itself so that I will think I have free will, but because it exists and is hidden I don't have freewill? Or does my freewill expire when it reveals itself to me? — Sir2u
Yes, I certainly think he was.But is Pascal's point correct? Does what he say actually apply to everyone? — Sir2u
I would think that D differentiated between truth, and Truth. So yes, D would reject the truth of this world for the Truth of Christ. The will-to-power can be thought of as the truth of this world, and that is rejected for the Truth of Christ, like Alyosha and Fr. Zossima.but her comment on Dostoevsky's statement was that he committed blasphemy when he said he wanted Christ more than truth. — Beebert
This doesn't necessarily mean that they need God. They simply need power - which can come from different sources, like science discovering ways in which to prolong your life and improve your health.So if one cannot rely on their own power for their own happiness, clearly one is in NEED of God. — Agustino
Regardless of what science discovers, it's not enough. We'll always be at the mercy of things that are outside of our control.They simply need power - which can come from different sources, like science discovering ways in which to prolong your life and improve your health. — Harry Hindu
I don't get it. Why would a man lying on his death bed desire God when God, if it exists, created the circumstances of him being on his death bed in the first place as part of God's plan? This is what believers do - they try to separate God from the way things are, as if God can save them from the universe yet God created the universe and our limited power in it. When we starkly feel our lack of power in the face of natural events, why turn to the one being that created those circumstances in the first place? It would seem to me that one would want to turn away from God, not turn to it.So if one cannot rely on their own power for their own happiness, clearly one is in NEED of God. Indeed, a man sitting in a hospital bed unable to move would be a fool to say that he doesn't at least desire that God exists. — Agustino
Man doesn't deserve anything, so why would he turn away? God doesn't HAVE TO give him what he wants. You're talking as if the man in question believes he deserves something from God. But prayer would be just speaking one's heart to God, for God is one's Creator.I don't get it. Why would a man lying on his death bed desire God when God, if it exists, created the circumstances of him being on his death bed in the first place as part of God's plan? This is what believers do - they try to separate God from the way things are, as if God can save them from the universe yet God created the universe and our limited power in it. When we starkly feel our lack of power in the face of natural events, why turn to the one being that created those circumstances in the first — Harry Hindu
You're talking as if the man's plea for God to change his plan isn't part of God's plan. God, if it exists and is omniscient (and if he isn't then he shouldn't be ascribed the label, "God"), already knows that the man will make a plea to God to prolong his life and already knows what God's answer will be. Because God's plan is predetermined, praying and the answer to prayers are already laid out in the plan.Man doesn't deserve anything, so why would he turn away? God doesn't HAVE TO give him what he wants. You're talking as if the man in question believes he deserves something from God. But prayer would be just speaking one's heart to God, for God is one's Creator. — Agustino
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.