By the way, Israel does not represent Jews globally. It doesn't even represent all Jews within its borders. Many are adamantly opposed to Israel's malpractices. — Tzeentch
:up: :up:By the way, Israel does not represent Jews globally. It doesn't even represent all Jews within its borders. Many are adamantly opposed to Israel's malpractices. — Tzeentch
i.e. ethnonationalist colonizer-settler apartheid regimeJewish nation-state — schopenhauer1
So perhaps Israel is uniquely barbaric in the modern day and age. — Tzeentch
As far as "apartheid".. There has to be a peace movement amongst the Palestinians. That means controlling people like Hamas. Until that is solved, Israel has to defend itself. — schopenhauer1
In 1967 it was Israel who decided to illegally occupy the West Bank and Gaza (among other territories).
Its base territorial greed cannot excuse "controlling people like Hamas" which in practice means the brutal oppression of millions. Israel can't even legally claim self-defense in these regions, because as the belligerent occupier, it is by definition in the wrong. — Tzeentch
In reality, there isn't even an onus on the Palestinians to negotiate. The 1967 expansion of Israel was illegal, period. It has no legitimate claim whatsoever on the West Bank and Gaza. — Tzeentch
Those pesky Palestinians, refusing to simply acknowledge Israel's illegal occupation and just leave, eh? — Tzeentch
Load whatever premise to get the conclusion you need. — schopenhauer1
Rather, the Arab/Islamic states surrounding Israel were immanently going to try to conquer it.. — schopenhauer1
If "not acknowledging" means non-violence, then sure, that. — schopenhauer1
The premise has all the support it needs: decades upon decades of UN Security Council resolutions. — Tzeentch
There are few things as set in stone as the fact that Israel is the belligerent occupier and has been in the wrong ever since it made that ill-fated decision. — Tzeentch
A "massive" threat I'm sure, considering Israel clobbered all of its neighbors simultaneously and doubled its own territory in the span of six days. :lol: — Tzeentch
It's a bit rich to expect non-violence from a people who have been subjected to a brutal occupation, apartheid and other crimes of humanity for decades.
When will Israel try its hand at non-violence? — Tzeentch
I never get this kind of point. If an enemy is bested militarily, even easily, does it make it any less threatening? — schopenhauer1
If Germany had excused its invasion of France under the pretense that France was oh-so threatening, would we take it very seriously? — Tzeentch
Israel took an opportunity to double its territory, thinking it would get away with it. And then the world didn't let it. — Tzeentch
Except France wasn't threatening. If anything, they were intractably in a defensive posture, even when the situation did not call for it. — schopenhauer1
Someone else I am sure will bring up the 3 No's and whatnot, and that there was room for negotiation if the Arab states had made an agreement after its disastrous loss. This didn't happen though. — schopenhauer1
Except that the Maginot Line was most definitely built to accomodate a counter-offensive into Germany. — Tzeentch
Why do you keep suggesting Israel should be accomodated in its illegal actions? — Tzeentch
decades upon decades of UN Security Council resolutions.
— Tzeentch
Already addressed this, — schopenhauer1
Illegal action to defend themselves? Nah not buying that argument. — schopenhauer1
Huh? The point was France did little to jack shit when Hitler was violating the Versailles treaty, opting to build a wall over taking any military or other measures to “head it off at the pass”. Essentially, they just put their head in the sand from looming threats..so in a way, Israel is the France here, but did the opposite strategy and didn’t wait to be taken over by surrounding armies. — schopenhauer1
Illegal action to defend themselves? — schopenhauer1
France was actually preparing for a new conflict with Germany, and it was preparing to fight that conflict on German soil. — Tzeentch
So occupying territory illegally now becomes "self-defense"? — Tzeentch
Yeah, the state we happen to like for whatever reason did it, so it must be defensive. The US didn’t invade Vietnam— it was defending Vietnam. Israel is committing a genocide — it’s sending itself. — Mikie
Now aggressive action is self-defense. I'm sure oppression and apartheid are self-defense, etc. — Tzeentch
There's simply no way you can condemn Hamas while apologizing for Israel without being an utter hypocrite. — Tzeentch
Just like stopping Hitler before 1940 would have been justified and needed to stop an actual aggressor. — schopenhauer1
Yes, sending rockets, and then actually invading and brutally targeting civilians and capturing hostages rather than peace talks would make me condemn Hamas. — schopenhauer1
and wasn't bullied over the span of six days after which Israel doubled its own territory. — Tzeentch
Why? They are simply reacting to Israeli aggression with the few tools at their disposal.
There's nothing you have said so far that disqualifies that from being an act of self-defense. — Tzeentch
[...] dismembering and killing civilians doesn't disqualify them? — schopenhauer1
That's unfortunately what Israel has been - a bully. — Tzeentch
This is what Israel is doing 'round the clock, and you're still calling that self-defense, aren't you? — Tzeentch
Right. I'm the one that is confused.
Nevermind the fact that any brutality perpetrated by Hamas you may point at has been repeated by Israel tenfold. — Tzeentch
But it is true, isn't it?
Israel has inflicted over ten times as many civilian casualties as Hamas did.
Nothing screams "moral high ground" more than resorting to the same barbarism as your enemy and outdoing him ten times over. — Tzeentch
immanently threatening your existence as a country. — schopenhauer1
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