I gotta go with Vera Mont, here. — tim wood

Of course, you're obnoxiously wrong, as usual.

Of course, you're obnoxiously wrong, as usual. — Jamal

Great! How? In what way, exactly?

Eliza Doolittle.

Would it be obnoxious to refer back to the logic of a much earlier pet peeve?
"Try to [e.g. climb that ladder]" means an attempt is made wherein the subject either overcomes his fear of heights or admits defeat.
"Try and [e.g. climb that ladder]" means that an attempt is made and the speaker presumes that the subject will then arrive at the top.
I know most people hear the same thing either way it's phrased - but I can't.

There are many other logical reasons for grammar. Most of them are aimed at clarity of meaning, the avoidance of ambiguity. And perhaps the possibility of subtlety, nuance, shades and degrees of meaning.
Some are mere conventions, and those change over time. Language is supposed to be alive and change over time, according to the needs and caprice of its users. But rapid, purposeful change is what happened at Babel.
The less attention is given to what communication actually means, the more misunderstanding, bias, deception and psychological manipulation can be introduced.

None in particular. But neither is Jamal wrong — besides the condescendence in his message. You are talking about different things.
Besides that fortay is not how Italian forte is pronounced, it is not just that misusage can exclude the speaker from some memberships, but that misusage may undermine communication. Some patterns (which eventually become rules) in a language may develop to remove ambiguity or unneeded specification, settling for a golden mean. If speakers err towards not attending the rule that removes ambiguity, it becomes obvious how they may undermine communication (if they err towards the unneeded specification, they are, for one, seen as pedantic).
Wouldn't it be wonderful if Kant wrote in a way that would not allow for significantly different interpretations of his work and that his usage of terminology was fully regular? So much time and effort would have been saved.
Obviously, one does not need to attend to rules when speaking to friends in the same as they do as writing a textbook for university studies (pedantic), but one must also be careful not to excessively help popularise mistakes that may degenerate communication. At the end of the day, it is an ethical issue, and by that fact alone it requires common sense — no definitive catch-all answer can be ever given.

Shitty ass modern pop (that is, modern pop)
People blarting their shitty ass modern pop in public places (Beach, park) or next door, implicitly demanding I either enjoy or endure their shitty ass modern pop, or gtfo

I'm inclined to agree. I long for the stone age when songs had melody and lyrics.
(Although, I do recall that in 1966 another roomer in the house had her little heart broken and kept playing the Barbara Streisand recording of 'Autumn Leaves', over and over and over and over, for a week. It annoyed me very nearly to the brink of homicide.)

That is an interesting perception. I think there is no lack of melody in todays pop, and certainly, they have lyrics. It's just that they are maddening, obnoxious drivel.

Gen-Z gets an undeserved bad rap, yet somehow to me their music embodies some the worst traits attributed to them: smug, narcissistic self satisfaction and self aggrandizement. The overall loss of quality compared to earlier generations (including ones I feel no special connection to) is stark.

Shitty ass modern pop (that is, modern pop)
People blarting their shitty ass modern pop in public places (Beach, park) or next door, implicitly demanding I either enjoy or endure their shitty ass modern pop, or gtfo — hypericin

:up: I don't go out without earphones. I listen to stuff like the following which is a very effective blocker and (to me) is also good music.

I may be pretty extreme though. E.g. If I could get a free meal at the most expensive restaurant in the world, I definitely wouldn't take it if I had to listen to ambient pop music or someone at the next table with their phone on a video or whatever.

Philosophers.

Just kidding. Just thought that'd be funny to someone. Somewhere. :meh:

But yes getting notifications of replies to posts I made hours ago when I was actually in the mood to debate, in betwixt states of sobriety when I'm not really in the mood to engage or formulate new thoughts. A personal problem, assuredly.

Other than that, probably Hanover's goats. He's got to be up to something off with them. No one is that consistently witty and knowledgeable of their own accord.

Just kidding. Just thought that'd be funny to someone. Somewhere — Outlander

I did laugh. I feel like it's the artist, not philosopher, in me whose stomach turns at such auditory assaults. But that may be conceit.

That's interesting. I'm not a fan of excessive nearly offensive decibel level myself. It's almost as if someone is trying to hide something that would otherwise be obvious.

Perhaps that's just my introvert-ish desire to maintain situational awareness wherever I may go. The more I can determine about a situation, the more I can plan, and the more secure and comfortable I am. Noise disrupts this, I notice.

Yes, for me ambient music, particularly pop, disrupts my intuitive feeling for a place, replacing it with a candied consumerised cadence that I find repulsive and emotionally disruptive. I need my intuitive feel for a place to feel like I properly am myself.

...I am a princess. Do not put a pea under my mattress, bitch. :smile:

I feel like it's the artist, not philosopher, in me whose stomach turns at such auditory assaults. But that may be conceit. — Baden

Death metal eh? I think it is the metalheads that can least abide the ear-vomit that passes for music these days.

I used to be a black metal exclusive, I even wrote it, but I've been expanding my horizons to include goth, quality pop, punk, thrash and death metal. I'm mostly an old school guy, been playing this one quite a bit lately:

Death metal eh? — hypericin

Officially grindcore, but pretty close.

I'm mostly an old school guy, — hypericin

Same here. Came across "Full of Hell" quite recently.

been playing this one quite a bit lately: — hypericin

Solid stuff. :death:

Yes, for me ambient music, particularly pop, disrupts my intuitive feeling for a place, replacing it with a candied consumerised cadence that I find repulsive and emotionally disruptive. — Baden

Well, keep in mind, while you're the most valuable, you're also the most infrequently or leastly present. The employees reside there as well. You know, the people who make everything happen? It's about their consideration and preference as well. Many of whom benefit more than nominally, on tips, tips that scientifically evidenced to be brought about by the "candied consumersed cadence" you so haughtily talk down upon as if it were you stocking their fridge and fulfilling their dreams, which you in fact, are not! So riddle yourself that for a spell.

Please, gtfo. The music is not there to somehow induce tipping (show me this "scientific evidence"). It's there because management decided the shopping public wants to hang out in a place playing music they presumably like. The poor employees have to endure the literal torture of being force fed this drek 8 hours a day. It is cruel as fuck.

And, "most valuable"??

disrupts my intuitive feeling for a place, replacing it with a candied consumerised cadence that I find repulsive and emotionally disruptive. — Baden

Spot on.

The music is not there to somehow induce tipping (show me this "scientific evidence"). It's there because management decided the shopping public wants to hang out in a place playing music they presumably like. — hypericin

Gladly. It's so beneath my effort I require a few sips to simply fit the role, naturally.

Oh "they decided" you mean, they noticed the fact of the reality that, I see fact and fiction becomes blurred with you. No matter. You're tolerable. Under the right setting.

Gladly. It's so beneath my effort I require a few sips to simply fit the role, naturally. — Outlander

:rofl: yeah...

You're tolerable. — Outlander

Wish I could say the same.

Wish I could say the same. — hypericin

You don't have to wish anything. Act against your fellow man's right to expression, and, oh, let's wish you good fortune, your current existence will end, quickfully, friend.

So, that's the end of that plain and simple.

I think there is no lack of melody in todays pop, — hypericin

I'm not sure what 'today's' pop is. I may be hearing yesterday's over the PAS of stores - granted, not the best audio quality.
If there are melodies, they last about three bars max and are anyway overwhelmed by loud percussion. Experts may find great virtuosity in the arrangements, but I can't hear it.
If there are lyrics, they tend to be an endless repetition of one or two phrases that make no sense to me, by the same one or two voices overlaid several times.
I'm just too old to appreciate the musicality.

The poor employees have to endure the literal torture of being force fed this drek 8 hours a day. — hypericin

They tell me they don't hear it after a while. Every now and then, when some young, healthy, prosperous performer wails overhead about their misery, I look up and say "For heaven's sake, get over yourself and do something useful!" The other aged customers smirk under their beards; the stock-boys stare at me uncomprehending. (It's okay; until quite recently, I was wearing a parrot's beak mask. My family's reputation is safe.)

The poor employees have to endure the literal torture of being force fed this drek 8 hours a day. It is cruel as fuck. — hypericin

In the enlightened future, this type of auditory abuse may be considered like smoking and banned.

and, oh, let's wish you good fortune, your current existence will end, quickfully, friend. — Outlander

This thread is intended for people to talk about their intense annoyances. If that makes you murderously upset, please go elsewhere.

If that makes you murderously upset, please go elsewhere. — Baden

Was that some kind of inept death threat? I couldn't tell, verbal expression is not this guy's strong suit. If so, I have to wonder why he is permitted to stick around.

Act against your fellow man's right to expression, — Outlander

Nobody has! Bitching infringes on on no fellow's right to expression - it is expression.

It's been reported. But as you pointed out, it's difficult to know what to make of that.

If that makes you murderously upset, please go elsewhere. — Baden

I don't see what warrants such a claim or comparison at all, frankly. I simply take a man for his words. "Intolerable" means "fundamentally interrupts one's existence to the point of action". That was his claim, not mine, friend. I simply remind the commenter, perhaps his frame of mind is not without benefit of expansion. Perhaps we have different definitions of the word "intolerable" is all. His is simply dramaticized and I remind him, rubber will inevitably meet the road.

I can assure you, law and order is no stranger to me. In fact, it's something of a religion of mine. Heh.

law and order is no stranger to me. In fact, it's something of a religion of mine. Heh. — Outlander

Good. You won't mind being banned if we deem you go too far then.

I just saw this as a bait thread. That is to say, could be exploited as such. "Think of things that piss you off, go on, it's allowed, in fact, it's the rule. Then to be judged in such a mindset is impervious to rationale", is all. See my reply to fdrake. Go on, I permit you to.