I have been reading Republic Book 10 for the sake of the Fooloso4 thread and came across a positively Dantean passage... — Paine
In Dante, of course, there is no return. The location of the placards on the front or back sends a chill down my spine. — Paine
I decided rather than continue with Fooloso4' Book 10 discussion that I need to read the whole Republic. — Amity
I'll add that those involved in the dialogue do not know where it will go or how it will end. We can imagine ourselves to be participants of the dialogue and add our responses to what is being said. — Fooloso4
SOCRATES: Well, it is not an Alcinous-story I am going to tell you, but that of a brave man called Er, the son of Armenias, by race a Pamphylian.
Once upon a time, he was killed in battle. On the tenth day, when the rest of the dead were picked up, they were already putrefying, but he was picked up still quite sound. When he had been taken home and was lying on the pyre before his funeral on the twelfth day, he revived and, after reviving, told what he had seen in the other world. — The Republic - trans. C.D.C. Reeve
Just wanted to say I respect C.D.C Reeve's translations. I prefer others for different reasons, but he is very consistent in his use of phrases. — Paine
The resort to music in place of angry, provocative rhetoric was not without its ironies. A long list of musical artists – including Celine Dion, Abba, Neil Young and Bruce Springsteen – have denounced or taken legal steps to stop the Trump campaign playing their songs at rallies.
On Tuesday, Rufus Wainright responded to Trump’s use at the Philadelphia rally of Wainwight’s cover of Leonard Cohen’s Hallelujah by posting on Instagram that he was “mortified”, adding: “I’ve been supremely honored over the years to be connected with this ode to tolerance.
Witnessing Trump and his supporters commune with this music last night was the height of blasphemy.” Wainwright said before the 2016 election that he would not sing the song again unless Trump lost. — Guardian - Trump 'Let's Listen to Music' during campaign rally
Coinciding with the 30th anniversary of the tragic events at Mt. Carmel that began on February 28, 1993, WACO: THE AFTERMATH focuses on the fallout of the Waco disaster: the trials of the surviving members of the Branch Davidian sect and the rise of homegrown terrorist, Timothy McVeigh. The five-episode limited series also provides a broader context for the escalation of the American militia movement, which foreshadows the infamous attacks of the Oklahoma City bombing and the storming of the U.S. Capitol on January 6.
The Proud Boys is a North American all-male, far-right, neo-fascist militant organization that promotes and engages in political violence.
You say I took the name in vain
I don't even know the name
But if I did, well, really, what's it to you?
There's a blaze of light in every word
It doesn't matter which you heard
The holy or the broken Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah
After being asked about Mr. Trump’s suggestion of turning the military against Americans, Mr. Youngkin replied that he didn’t believe that was what the president was saying. The network, he said, was “misinterpreting and misrepresenting his thoughts.”
"I’m literally reading his quotes to you,” Mr. Tapper replied. — The New York Times
I hear you, friend of mine. — Paine
6November24
Yesterday more Americans chose rather than rejected tyranny. To wit:
make Apartheid great again
make Antisemitism great again
make Anti-women great again
make Anti-immigrants great again
make Anti-labor great again
make Anti-intellect great again
make Anti-democracy great again
make Above-the-Law great again
make Assholery great again ... — 180 Proof
Sunk by Keir Starmer’s sycophantic words of congratulation to Donald Trump
‘Shoulder to shoulder’ | Time to abandon X | The Great Dictator | Lessons for the Democrats | Civil war averted | On otter pages
Thirteen pages in Wednesday’s print edition on the US election, and then that delightful story on page 17 (Otter’s bond with Shetland man features in documentary, 6 November) restored my faith in humanity.
Rhys Harrison — Guardian - Sycophantic Starmer - Letters US Election 2024
I am presently fixing a hole where the rain gets in. — Paine
[emphasis added]As artists we have to bang the drum, we have to keep going,” he said in an interview with the Guardian. “We mustn’t put up with it. That’s why I admire people like Mark Ruffalo [a longtime advocate for social justice].
“I’m not going to give up on my criticism of Trump. I think it behoves artists to not give up, to keep the flag of truth flying, because it’s been so abused in recent years.”
“I look at the US and think it’s a fucking mess,” Cox said. “It doesn’t know who or where it is. Trump’s vitriol towards Harris during the campaign was unbelievable. [...]
What’s happening in Gaza is a genocide, there’s no question about it. It’s horrific. But it’s not going to get any better under Trump, because he’s a great friend of Netanyahu, so who’s going to be saying ‘stop it’ now, ‘behave yourself’?” He added: “I think the world has never been in a more dangerous place than it is at the moment.”
Cox also spoke about other crises he believed Americans would be facing, including reproductive rights and the climate crisis. “Women are being treated as second-class citizens in America and it has to stop, it’s gone on for far too long,” he said. “Nobody should be discussing what a woman should do with her body, only they should advocate for what happens to their body. How dare we make that assumption? It’s so retrograde.”
He added: “I can’t believe I’m living in the 21st century, because we don’t seem to progress as human beings. We seem to make the same mistake time and time again.
“The world’s in deep shit like never before. Trump’s not going to do anything about the climate crisis because he doesn’t believe it, no matter the evidence.
Cox was also insistent that he would “never play Trump”. He said: “I couldn’t play him for all the tea in China, there’s no virtue in him.” — Guardian - US Elections 2024
[emphasis added]6November24
Yesterday more Americans chose rather than rejected tyranny. To wit:
make Apartheid great again
make Antisemitism great again
make Anti-women great again
make Anti-immigrants great again
make Anti-labor great again
make Anti-intellect great again
make Anti-democracy great again
make Above-the-Law great again
make Assholery great again ... — 180 Proof
I think you don’t win votes if you’re not fighting for them. And the Democrats didn’t really fight very hard for the votes of young men. But they could have said:
“There are so many progressive young women who are worried about the mental health of their boyfriend or brother. There are so many progressive women who wanted a party that would support their reproductive rights and do a better job of educating their son.” [...]
Democrats benched themselves from the argument about men
Instead, at the very last gasp, they started to say to men: “Well, if you care about the women in your life, you should vote for us. Or maybe the reason you’re not voting for us is because you’re secretly a little bit sexist?” Trying to either shame or guilt trip or scare men into voting Democrat was spectacularly unsuccessful.
What do the Democrats need to learn from this?
The danger is that they just say all these men became sexist, that they were lured by misogyny. The danger is Democrats believe they just need to double down on attacks on patriarchy and toxic masculinity. That would be disastrous.
Instead, they should show young men that they’ve got an agenda that’s more up their street. Instead of going on and on about cancelling student debt, which is not a popular policy among men, they should talk more about trade schools and manufacturing jobs. I hope that they’ll conclude that they need to win men back by explicitly pitching them, rather than trying to recruit them as allies to the cause of women, which is a political theory that they just tested to destruction.
— Guardian- Young men and the Election
I don't agree. Imo, Trump won because too many Democratic voters preferred not to vote rather than vote for a woman president just like in 2016. Biden won 15 million more votes in 2020 than Clinton won in 2016 and 13 million more votes than Harris won this year; however, Trump received about 1 million less than he did in 2020, so the election turnout drop-off was on the Dems side. As far as I can tell, too many Americans are still not "ready" for a woman president. :brow:A question for 180 Proof and any others - how much would you agree that there was too much emphasis and reliance on women votes re abortion? — Amity
As far as I can tell, too many Americans are still not "ready" for a woman presiden — 180 Proof
I spent hours trying to persuade US voters to choose Harris not Trump. I know why she lost - Oliver Hall
As a phone bank volunteer, I hoped to counter the Republican attacks and half-truths, but people really believed them.
Time and again, voters, very often women themselves, told me that they just didn’t think that “America is ready for a female president”. People said they couldn’t “see her in the chair” and asked if I “really thought a woman could run the country”. One person memorably told me that she couldn’t vote for Harris because “you don’t see women building skyscrapers”. Sometimes, these people would be persuaded, but more often than not it was a red line. Many conversations would start with positive discussions on policy and then end on Harris and her gender. That is an extraordinary and uncomfortable truth.
You should know what I didn’t hear during the hours speaking to US voters. I can only think of one occasion when someone mentioned stricter taxes on billionaires or any similar policies. The atrocities being committed by Israel in Gaza only came up six times in more than 1,000 calls.
After all those conversations, I think the main reason that Harris and Walz lost this campaign is simple: Trump. Ultimately, he was simply too much of a pull again. Despite the gaffes, despite his views on women, despite his distaste for democracy and despite an insurrection, voters just didn’t care.
For reasons that I’m sure will be studied for decades, when he speaks, people listen. When he speaks, people believe him. After all those calls, I can be shocked at this result, but hardly surprised.
— Guardian - Opinion - Kamala Harris
I've just read an article by masculinity researcher, Richard Reeves, which seems to shed more light on the gender issues. And how the Democrats miscalculated. — Amity
would have helped. The first reaction from the rightward press would be :"Are they calling all young men crazy?" I shudder to think what the Trump campaign would have made of that approach.“There are so many progressive young women who are worried about the mental health of their boyfriend or brother. There are so many progressive women who wanted a party that would support their reproductive rights and do a better job of educating their son.” — Guardian- Young men and the Election
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