↪tim wood I feel your pain, like half of America and about 90% of Australia, I'm vastly dissappointed by the re-election of DJT
— Wayfarer
You may want to think twice about that percentage. — Joshs
Simply make the detection/diagnose of a "post-truth" person and then treat him or her accordingly. Understand that he or she will tell the truth only if it suits his or her objectives and agenda. It just a power game, so get over the stupid fascination about truth and falsehood. The are playing a role and they want to give everything to that role. Assume he or she is pushing an agenda irrelevant of the facts. That's it.Bottom line, the lie itself can become a deadly tool, the liar a deadly danger. Like a virulent cancer. As with cancer, the earlier detected, usually the gentler the cure. Doctors of TPF, your suggestions? — tim wood
What does your nonsense even mean? And the trouble with your nonsense is that it seems to both mean and imply something. So let's be clear: truth involves facts. Facts and truth are not "enforced." And the association of facts and truth with "the most evil regimes in history" is vicious perversion.Imagine a state enforcing historical and scientific truth and you’ll be imagining the most evil regimes in history. — NOS4A2
And thus the problem. Truth v. power. In a true society, law. In a power society, war. And the mistake - the lesson history large and small teaches repeatedly - is that the liar and his lies require immediate strong response. That, or they just get stronger and bolder. Trump was a criminal from his beginnings: imagine how the world would differ if he had simply been jailed for his crimes then.Simply make the detection/diagnose of a "post-truth" person and then treat him or her accordingly. Understand that he or she will tell the truth only if it suits his or her objectives and agenda.It's just a power game — ssu
I think you're confusing things that in your own life you likely are not at all confused about. Which for brevity's sake I'll characterize as the difference between facts and "facts" and between truth and "truth." "Facts" of course not being facts, and "truth" not being true; both "facts" and "truth" being lies of one or another kind.This isn't to dispense with the idea that there is Truth, but it is to suggest we've always found Truth/God on our side. We're just frustrated because we don't worship a common god. — Hanover
Both. Education for the ignorant (which includes all of us), and appropriate penalties for liars. "Appropriate" meaning penalties that will strongly disincentivize lying.and as such we won't get rid of them by treating the symptom itself...
...we need to treat the sickness. — Christoffer
You shall have to decide whether there is any such tig as a truth or a fact. Admittedly some that are claimed to be are not, quite. But that is not to categorically equivocate them as a class.sn't distrust just a symptom of polarization of viewpoints as opposed to something new? — Hanover
Both. Education for the ignorant (which includes all of us), and appropriate penalties for liars. "Appropriate" meaning penalties that will strongly disincentivize lying. — tim wood
Most - I think all - lies are soluble in appropriate analysis. — tim wood
I invite you to consider that while fighting is itself hard, that the difficulty is not the fighting with the cults, but making the decision to fight them, and how to fight them. That's their head-start on the rest of us. They act; we react - and for lots of things, that is how it must be. But I would like to see laws that make the reaction time shorter and more direct and explicit.It's very hard to fight against cults. — Manuel
Trump, apparently one of many, is post-truth. His - their - lies should not be, cannot be, accepted. — tim wood
Two "narratives," neither factual. And neither true. And that leaves open and untouched the question of what the truth is - what the facts are. That information readily available from various sources. Mainly, the US team were a select, experienced, highly trained, very highly motivated group of young players. The Soviet team being then merely a very good professional team. Herb Brooks understood that the Russians were beatable, but they had to be beaten at their own game. Which is what he selected and trained his players to do. Some luck? Sure.What fit my narrative.... — Hanover
How much Kool-Aid have you drunk? You must have a very high tensile strength, being so twisted and stretched without shattering. Look at the history, man! Let's start with a first lie: whose inauguration was bigger, Obama's first or Trump's? Answer! And we can play this game for years, because that is how many lies Trump has told - or forever because he is still lying. And if you repeat and maintain them, then you're a liar as well. Just look at the history.It seems to me that the Trump narrative, that things used to be good and have gone to shit is fundamentally true and agrees with the experience of middle America. So the only lie is the promise to make it great again. — unenlightened
On education, agreed. Let's call that the carrot. Your opinions on the stick?
As to education, I have direct experience with the USA version, indirect with the "British" system. The general verdict seems to be that the British, though not itself perfect, is wa-ay better than the US. Best in my opinion, would be a lot of British, tempered with some American. What do you say? — tim wood
Obama's first or Trump's? Answer! And we can play this game for years, because that is how many lies Trump has told - or forever because he is still lying. And if you repeat and maintain them, then you're a liar as well. Just look at the history. — tim wood
Responding as succinctly and concisely as I can (I looked them up): in many respects Democrats are the messenger, and the stupid shot them.To people who are suffering, happy-clappy looks plain stupid. — unenlightened
But to the extent that any party controls the better and the worse, which do you think has in the US governed for the worse, since, say, Hoover? — tim wood
Democracy or a Republic works only if the citizens uphold the values. Even in school I remember my philosophy teacher reminding us that there's no limit to what a Parliament can decide: it can jail redheads if it wants as it can change the constitution (with 3/4 majority votes, but still). Even for the US Constitution there have been 27 amendments.Trump was a criminal from his beginnings: imagine how the world would differ if he had simply been jailed for his crimes then.
And that leaves the question of what to do when law fails? — tim wood
Nothing says nuance like using a punt gun on a flock of pigeons. May I recommend a double charge?you're all a bunch of incompetent greedy lying buggers, — unenlightened
The original ten, leaving seventeen. Many administrative, two foolish, and six substantive as to rights. Not bad for 230+ years. As to citizens upholding values, they - we - spoke, and God help us all! Trump is a welsher par excellence on promises, guarantees, obligations, debts, and contracts. And a flouter of laws and judgments.Even for the US Constitution there have been 27 amendments. — ssu
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