But I am 100000 percent sure that Trump will not solve the problems But cause more. — Beebert

Sure, if he attacks it will not be nice.

The Nazis loved Romans 13. That is what I talked about. — Beebert

Proof?

"That's not what you said the first time. So what happened, did you change your mind, or?"
What time? — Beebert

This one:

If you Believe that this sick evangelical pastor is right (because he pretends to be christian or what? How biased and dishonest if so), something is seriously wrong. You would like it if Trump started war? Brilliant... You think these statements are smart? My... The question isnt what God has or hasn't endowed people with, you answer to something completely different than the spirit of my post intended to say. The question was: Do you see what Paul 's sentences lead to? What has that to do with God now? "Because God wrote the bible"? Please, not YET... Now regarding fighting evil with force ... Doesnt sound very enlightened does it? I think both Buddha and Jesus would disagree with you. Wasn't it Jesus who said "Do not resist evil"? — Beebert

So you decide what discussion we have? I say that we have completely different motives here. To me, the most important question is: Why christianity and not Another religion?

Will you Hate the burglar or feel compassion? — Beebert

Of course I will hate the burglar - that's why I'd cut his head off and save my wife!

So you decide what discussion we have? I say that we have completely different motives here. To me, the most important question is: Why christianity and not Another religion? — Beebert

No that's what you say the most important question is now - I'm not willing to address it here. You certainly didn't think so at the beginning of this discussion.

Now there's a lot of stuff YOU haven't addressed, so I find it quite unbelievable that you claim I decide what discussions we have

What is it in that post where I Change my mind? :S you know what, this is pointless. We cant keep on wasting time like this. Let us either choose a direction or drop it all

What is it in that post where I Change my mind? — Beebert

I didn't claim you changed your mind.

That's not what you said the first time. So what happened, did you change your mind, or? — Agustino

"Of course I will hate the burglar - that's why I'd cut his head off and save my wife!"
You are not enlightened. You are not Christian. You dont love your enemies. You are exactly what Nietzsche blamed Christians for being and that is Why you dislike him. Discussion over.

You are not enlightened. You are not Christian. You dont love your enemies. You are exactly what Nietzsche blamed Christians for being and that is Why you dislike him. Discussion over. — Beebert

If that's what being enlightened means, then I certainly don't want to be enlightened. Do you? I love my wife, so I hate the burglar. You can't have both.

You are exactly what Nietzsche blamed Christians for being — Beebert

Yeah, the Nietzsche who wrote:

What belongs to greatness. Who will attain anything great if he does not find in himself the strength and the will to inflict great suffering? Being able to suffer is the least thing; weak women and even slaves often achieve virtuosity in that. But not to perish of internal distress and uncertainty when one inflicts great suffering and hears the cry of the suffering -- that is great, that belongs to greatness

Good, and if enlightened means what you claim; then I dont want that. I wonder who of us is right about the Words of Christ though.
Regarding Nietzsche; at least he was honest, you seem to be the opposite of that

Regarding Nietzsche; at least he was honest, you seem to be the opposite of that — Beebert

That's precisely the point, he wasn't. He was a coward himself.

As for me, I was very honest that I'd cut the burglar's head off and save my wife, why are you saying that I'm not honest?

And to say Nietzsche was honest misses the entire point. If he was honest, then even worse! For I have the right to hate him because he's advocating immorality, not because he says some "ugly" truth about me and Christianity as you fallaciously suppose.

Because you call yourself Christian and blame me because I oppose things in the bible. And you also debate for this methaphysical morality where God will punish evil But you are too blind to see that repaying evil with evil is according to your faith in itself evil. And not Only that : You want not Only to repay evil with evil; You also Hate the evildoer. I am really done now. I dont want to talk to someone with as unsophisticated views as yours.

Regarding Nazis and Romans 13:
http://theopoet4camp.blogspot.se/2010/03/hitler-and-nazis-use-of-romans-13_12.html?m=1

"For I have the right to hate him because he's advocating immorality"

I choke! I choke! A ressentimental hater in the house! Please! Fresh air! Hypocrite...

Because you call yourself Christian and blame me because I oppose things in the bible. And you also debate for this methaphysical morality where God will punish evil But you are too blind to see that repaying evil with evil is according to your faith in itself evil. And not Only that : You want not Only to repay evil with evil; You also Hate the evildoer. I am really done now. I dont want to talk to someone with as unsophisticated views as yours. — Beebert

You provide the best answer for yourself:

I choke! I choke! A ressentimental hater in the house! Please! Fresh air! Hypocrite... — Beebert

Because you call yourself Christian and blame me because I oppose things in the bible. And you also debate for this methaphysical morality where God will punish evil But you are too blind to see that repaying evil with evil is according to your faith in itself evil. And not Only that : You want not Only to repay evil with evil; You also Hate the evildoer. I am really done now. I dont want to talk to someone with as unsophisticated views as yours. — Beebert

I see nothing in here about dishonesty, sorry.

Havent you read the Sermon on the Mount? Or even Paul when he tells Christians not to repay evil with evil and hate? The dishonest thing is that you pretend that you are a Christian and love Christ. Nothing else.

Havent you read the Sermon on the Mount? Or even Paul when he tells Christians not to repay evil with evil and hate? The dishonest thing is that you pretend that you are a Christian and love Christ. Nothing else. — Beebert

Yes, nowhere in what you cite is there something about "loving" the burglar who is trying to kill my wife. Quite the opposite, there is something about loving my wife and having to protect her even if it means sacrificing myself to do so.

And even if God predetermined them, He could still hold them responsible so long as they have free will. God predetermined them to have free will too. — Agustino

Except that the idea of one's actions being predetermined contradicts the idea of having free will. The having (as opposed to the use) of faculties (such as free will) being predetermined is a different matter.

Except that the idea of one's actions being predetermined contradicts the idea of having free will. The having (as opposed to the use) of faculties (such as free will) being predetermined is a different matter. — Janus

So do you claim that the Bible teaches that God controls our actions?

So you once again havent understood the spirit behind the words about loving you enemies etc? Well... I say this for the last time: The discussion is over.

So you once again havent understood the spirit behind the words about loving you enemies etc? Well... I say this for the last time: The discussion is over. — Beebert

No, YOU haven't understood that correctly.

Quite the opposite, there is something about loving my wife and having to protect her even if it means sacrificing myself to do so. — Agustino

I'm not claiming anything about the Bible. I was just responding to your statement that appeared to be saying that people's actions could be predetermined by God and yet be freely-willed. If that is not what you were saying then there would be no disagreement.

I'm not claiming anything about the Bible. I was just responding to your statement that appeared to be saying that people's actions could be predetermined by God and yet be freely-willed. If that is not what you were saying then there would be no disagreement. — Janus

Nope, that's not what it says in those passages. You cannot cite even one single instance of a man doing what he does because God predetermines him to do so. And even if God predetermined them, He could still hold them responsible so long as they have free will. God predetermined them to have free will too. — Agustino

In this passage, what I had in mind by God "predetermining" them to something is, if, say, they are born in a certain family, certain time period, etc. - this does give them a set of options that are pre-determined and wouldn't be available for them if they were born in a different place, to different parents, in different times, in different nations, etc. So because God determines the options they have available, in this sense they are predetermined to act in one of those ways.

Your Will to power really makes you insist on having the last Word doesnt it?
"Quite the opposite, there is something about loving my wife and having to protect her even if it means sacrificing myself to do so."

Huh? Where the hell did that come from? What does that have to do with the spirit of the written Word in the Sermon on the Mount? What does hating a burglur have to do with protecting your wife? I dont have a problem with you protecting her as a christian, I have a problem with claiming to hate a burglur and wanting to slice his head off(and probably rejoicing over thinking about his misfortunate fate in the afterlife.) NOW I really Will not answer you more in this discussion. But I Will be kind and let you have the oppurtunity to have your will to power satisfied by having the last Word if you wish.

One last thing you can ponder on in silence:
Let us say that the burglur actually kills your wife. Perhaps you werent there. Will you hate him, perhaps even look him up and take revenge? Or will you forgive him, as your savior demands?

OK, in the second sentence you deny that God predetermines what a man does, and then in the third when you say " And even if God predetermined them": I took that to mean, in reference to the second sentence: 'even if God did predetermine what a man does". If you were only meaning 'if God predetermines a man's situation, capacities, preferences, options' and so on, then I would agree that that would not be incompatible with free will.

I took that to mean, in reference to the second sentence: 'even if God did predetermine what a man does" — Janus

I did actually intend to say this, because there is a sense in which God does predetermine what a man does. By, say, determining the total number of choices I can take into A B C, the choices of D E F G H etc. are excluded because they are not available to me because of my situation, faculties, etc. So in that case, God does predetermine me to do either A or B or C. I didn't mean to say that God would make me do A out of those three, for in that case, I agree with you, that I would have no free will.

But you are right perhaps I was a bit sloppy with language there. Should've explained better.

It's absolutely the failure of unbelievers, but that's the problem. Someone concerned for overcoming with overcoming human weakness of death and suffering of the world despises such failure.

With respect to the question you asked in your other thread, a successful solution to human weakness would remove the failure of the unbeliever. It's the weakness of death and it's suffering of the world. A weakness the Christian God is incapable of removing by God's own intention. God is no great solution to human weakness.

A great solution to human weakness would eliminate the failure of unbelievers too, for it would mean less people are caught in the suffering and death of the world. Christianity is only for the self-satisfied who want themselves to be better than everyone else, who want the weakness of unbelievers.

Exactly. That's my point precisely. Christianity cannot remove human weakness from the unbeliever. It is a failure at overcoming human weakness for large numbers of people.

I wasn't suggesting Christianity claimed or needed to do otherwise, only pointing out it doesn't meet the rehtoric of "grand solution to everyone worldy death and suffering." It cannot save the unbeliever. It advocates that human weakness.