↪Arcane Sandwich
My interpretation is that it is pointing to the inadequacy of spoken language to convey the depth of meaning that is inherent in 'the Way'. — Wayfarer
Arguments about it, 'it means this', 'no it doesn't, it means that', and so forth, have already missed the mark. — Wayfarer
The true way or eternal Tao is not a verbal expression or description or anything that can be said. — Wayfarer
Like I said every time you asked me: there is something you find in Eastern philosophies, 'the Unconditioned'. It's not God, or not like a 'sky-father' figure. But then as soon as we ask 'well what is it then?' then we've missed the mark again. — Wayfarer
If everything that can be said misses the mark then there is no point discussing it. On the other hand how could you know if the mark has been missed if you don't know what it is?Yes, they have. (Missed the mark) — Arcane Sandwich
The preceding verse has nothing to do with Nature, nor with what is natural. It is speaking about Tao (Greatness). — Arcane Sandwich
Nature = what is natural.
Tao follows what is natural.
Tao follows only itself.
The Nature (Tao) that can be told is not the eternal Nature (Tao). — Arcane Sandwich
If everything that can be said misses the mark then there is no point discussing it. — Janus
On the other hand how could you know if the mark has been missed if you don't know what it is? — Janus
The preceding verse has nothing to do with Nature, nor with what is natural. It is speaking about Tao (Greatness). — Arcane Sandwich
Nature = what is natural.
Tao follows what is natural.
Tao follows only itself.
The Nature (Tao) that can be told is not the eternal Nature (Tao). — Arcane Sandwich
You contradict yourself or the text or both. — Janus
Tao follows what is natural. — Lao Tzu (Laozi)
The Tao follows only itself. — Translated by Stephen Mitchell, 1988
If you don't understand the language the text was written in, how do you know that the translator avoids a mistake? — Janus
If you don't understand the language the text was written in, how do you know that the translator avoids a mistake? — Janus
Ok, I will cite another English version of chapter 25, because it is the best that I can do, under these circumstances, which I cannot transcend unless I learn Mandarin (at the very least). — Arcane Sandwich
Are you sure about that? It sounds to me that one can speak "around" it, one can allude to it, indirectly. — Arcane Sandwich
Because it reveals itself to you, in a non-linguistic way. — Arcane Sandwich
Because I am attempting to combine two translations of the Tao Te Ching that contradict each other. See:
Tao follows what is natural.
— Lao Tzu (Laozi)
The Tao follows only itself.
— Translated by Stephen Mitchell, 1988
Why am I doing such a thing? Because you made that specific request when you said the following:
If you don't understand the language the text was written in, how do you know that the translator avoids a mistake? — Arcane Sandwich
I am trying to be as charitable as I can towards your intentions, Janus. Are you trying to be as charitable as you can towards my intentions, yes or no? — Arcane Sandwich
I'm not sure if you are referring to the Tao as literally the quantum vacuum or as a metaphor. I think taking it literally is mixing up metaphysics and physics. — T Clark
So, it's just poetry then? I have no argument with that. — Janus
It seems to me that something that can only be apprehended non-linguistically cannot be spoken about except poetically or allusively. — Janus
Poetry is always a matter of interpretation with no detreminate meaning, so there cannot be any detreminable "missing of the mark". — Janus
OK, so the translations contradict one another. How do you know which is correct, or considering what I said just above, how can there be a correct and incorrect at all? — Janus
I am not concerned with your intentions. I don't know them, I know what you say, and I respond to that with my own questions and ideas and as much on its own terms (that is without distorting it) as I can. Isn't that what we do (or should be doing) here? — Janus
What is the source of the poem you included. Is it your own? What can you tell us about it? — T Clark
Please explain the following song from the POV of your Theory about the Universe: — Arcane Sandwich
Please explain the following song from the POV of your Theory about the Universe: — Arcane Sandwich
Anything can become of the temporaries formed by the Permanent. — PoeticUniverse
What is the source of the poem you included. Is it your own? What can you tell us about it? — T Clark
The first stanza, in italics, is Edward FitzGerald's transmogrification of Omar Khayyam. The rest are my own, as extensions of the idea of The Eternal Saki. — PoeticUniverse
What do you think of Timbuktu? — Arcane Sandwich
Too hot and dry. — PoeticUniverse
If everything that can be said misses the mark then there is no point discussing it. On the other hand how could you know if the mark has been missed if you don't know what it is? — Janus
It seems to me that something that can only be apprehended non-linguistically cannot be spoken about except poetically or allusively. Poetry is always a matter of interpretation with no detreminate meaning, so there cannot be any detreminable "missing of the mark". — Janus
OK, so the translations contradict one another. How do you know which is correct, or considering what I said just above, how can there be a correct and incorrect at all? — Janus
Are you invoking the phenomenon/ noumenon distinction? — Janus
If you don't understand the language the text was written in, how do you know that the translator avoids a mistake? — Janus
The first stanza, in italics, is Edward FitzGerald's transmogrification of Omar Khayyam. The rest are my own, as extensions of the idea of The Eternal Saki. — PoeticUniverse
Thanks. — T Clark
Jane English, born 1942 in Massachusetts, is a photographer, artist, and author who holds a doctorate in particle physics.
English received her B.A. in physics from Mount Holyoke College in 1964 and Ph.D. from the University of Wisconsin–Madison for her work in high energy particle physics. She taught courses in Oriental thought and modern physics at Colorado College.[1]
English collaborated on a translation of the Tao Te Ching of Laozi which she illustrated through photography, in collaboration with her spouse Gia-Fu Feng. — Wiki - Jane English
Who says that it's just poetry? It can be science instead. Be cooperative, instead of intentionally trying to cause a disturbance in this Thread. I am the author of the OP and I am formally requesting you to be less disruptive. In other words, I'm giving you a "yellow card", a "warning", if you will. — Arcane Sandwich
Therefore, "Tao is great;
Heaven is great;
Earth is great;
The king is also great."
These are the four great powers of the universe,
And the king is one of them.
— Lao Tzu (Laozi)
The King is one of them. Who is to say that the King is not the Great Chinggis Khaan? — Arcane Sandwich
Who is to say that the King is not instead Haile Selassie, Emperor of Ethiopia, the Second Incarnation of Christ, the Lion of Judah, who will unify all the peoples of Africa and all of the peoples of the African diaspora? — Arcane Sandwich
Therefore, “Tao is great;
Heaven is great;
Earth is great;
The human being is also great.”
These are the four great powers of the universe,
And the human being is one of them.
The human being follows the earth.
Earth follows heaven.
Heaven follows the Tao.
Tao follows what is natural. — Amity
Now Jane English and her long-time editor, Toinette Lippe, have refreshed and revised the translation, so that it more faithfully reflects the Classical Chinese in which it was first written, while taking into account changes in our own language and eliminating any lingering infelicities. [...] Also included is an introduction by the well-known writer and scholar of philosophy and comparative religion, Jacob Needleman. — Amazon - Tao Te Ching: Illustrated Edition: With Over 150 Photographs
It's about the fact that around 6th-3rd centuries B.C.E. a number of prophets and sages were active, including Pythagoras, Lao Tsu, the Buddha, and others, who set the wheels in motion for what were to become the great cultural formations of India, China and the West. — Wayfarer
what does the following phrase mean: "The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao." — Arcane Sandwich
Who says that it's just poetry? It can be science instead. Be cooperative, instead of intentionally trying to cause a disturbance in this Thread. I am the author of the OP and I am formally requesting you to be less disruptive. In other words, I'm giving you a "yellow card", a "warning", if you will. — Arcane Sandwich
Who is to say that the King is not instead Haile Selassie — Arcane Sandwich
It’s not so much coincidence as parallel development. — Wayfarer
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