Ignoring that it didn't come close.... that's a fucking insane move on day one.

An insanity which is the new normal. Or so we are to believe. Trump is now protected by the Supreme Court ruling which gives him total immunity from prosecution for official acts. God knows what he'll do with it. Anyway I'm not going to let him live in my head, I have to fight the urge to vent.

It's possible I'm misinterpreting or taking too seriously what you're saying but I don't think I have any views here.

Some people think T is an existential threat. Some think he isn't.
SOme think Biden was a threat (though, not many have said existential in the way they have for T).

I don't care. What will happen will happen, and there's literally fuck all anything I do could possibly change about it. I enjoy my life and choose not to fall into the kind of paddling pool arguments being had here.

Definitely a good move!

I admittedly can't be bothered to read those 174 pages myself:

READ: Jack Smith's final report on Trump's Jan. 6 case
^{— Avery Lotz · Axios · Jan 14, 2025}
Jack Smith’s Final Report on Trump Investigations (2025)
^{— John R Vile · The Free Speech Center, Middle Tennessee State University · Jan 17, 2025}

Guilty (or not) probably wouldn't have made much difference to his die-hard followers and their apparatuses. About as futile as deconverting a Pentecostal and for similar reasons. Might have made a difference to the election though. A different kind of rigging?

Biden won the rigged election. He was inaugurated, after all. — NOS4A2

Why do you think it was rigged?

fwiw, I think these types really mean something a lot more nuanced that amounts to "the election was unfairly influenced by XYZ..." which I think is fair, and probably true of many elections. Thems the breaks bucko.

So the amnesty for Jan 6th rioters amounts to sanctioning Trump’s right-wing militia partners, straight out of the Authoritarian Playbook, as Rachel Maddow explains (and I wonder how long it is before she gets a knock on the door at midnight?) Meanwhile, the NY Times observes:

the mass pardon sends a message to the country and the world that violating the law in support of Mr. Trump and his movement will be rewarded, especially when considered alongside his previous pardons of his advisers. It loudly proclaims, from the nation’s highest office, that the rioters did nothing wrong, that violence is a perfectly legitimate form of political expression and that no price need be paid by those who seek to disrupt a sacred constitutional transfer of power.

This forum is turning into a clownshow with all the adults whinging over a lost election. Jesus.

What is 'quite telling' is that in light of this you're still trying to give Biden credit, while unwilling to acknowledge Trump did a good thing. — Tzeentch

I'm not a great fan of Biden, never have been after the disaster in Afghanistan. And with Ukraine, the nuke scare worked like a charm on Biden. Even if the guy had been long around during the Cold War.

But let's see what Trump does with Ukraine. At least Kellog is reasonable.

This forum is turning into a clownshow with all the adults whinging over a lost election. Jesus. — Tzeentch

That's what the Trump supporter hope or see through their orange tinted glasses.

And the philosophical, not any political or present day commenting, has never been a clown show.

This forum is turning into a clownshow with all the adults whinging over a lost election. Jesus. — Tzeentch

So talking about the policies and what Trump is doing while in power is whining about a lost election? Or is it about talking about Trump and what he does as what this thread is about?

What's interesting is that some on this forum seem to be turning to Twitter rhetoric; using the same Trump-defense as all his other cultists.

The latest T proposals speak of sending U.S. military down to the border before figuring out how that fits in with the other federal, state, and county jurisdictions.

As a citizen here, that promotes the expansion of federal power above that of local communities. It hurts the brain to have self-identified Libertarians support such measures. — Paine

Sending the military in has a look that the President is "really doing the most" to tackle an issue. Trump doesn't give a shit about federal, state and country jurisdictions and / or military readiness, as once the troops are on the border, well, they sit there.

Of course closing a border is totally possible. We've had to do it and I can assure you it's absolutely devastating for the border region. And this is where it goes from just rhetoric to reality. Naturally Trump doesn't want to close the Mexican border altogether. Mexico is a larger trading partner than China and there's far more of those who legal migrants. And Trump doesn't want the economy to stall. But since he's for raising tariff's with everybody, some kind of trade war can indeed happen. Hence it's going to be combination of trade and migration policies that will effect the economy. And that's why many are anticipating stagflation: inflation with weak or even negative growth. Yet as Trump is a "transactional" president and not ideological, he can change the most economically disastrous promises, if he understands the actual effects.

More important than that is the proposed abandonment of regulation in all its forms. The efficacy of the anti-regulation movement will produce the most immediate outcomes for life in our nation. The environment, levels of education, standards of police behavior, acceptance of chosen forms of identity, equal rights under the law, national responses to health threats, etcetera. — Paine

You can aptly talk about the power of the American oligarchs increasing with Trump. Never underestimate the power of Elon Musk. If it's between Elon and some Steven Bannon, it's the Bannon-type Trumpsters that will be the hangaround fans outside the circle of power telling themselves that Trump stands for them and their important.

Even with the double talk of "draining the swamp" or going after "the deep state". Well, the "Deep State" in Trumpland are only his political rivals and government employee that he is disappointed at. And not of course the "Deep State" he would like to have around to do his bidding.

Whatever bad and good we may have done for others, the dissolution of our infrastructure is what will consume the next decade. — Paine

This likely will continue regardless would it be a Trump or a Harris administration starting. The US is such a huge economy that the idea that infrastructure doesn't need federal aid, but the market forces will take care of it will continue. There are enough cities and municipalities that are prosperous enough to take care of their infrastructure, so why waste money? That some cannot do this, that they have severe economical problems usually suffering the opioid epidemic doesn't matter. The "Rust Belt" is there to give a base ground for populists like Trump promising that things will change with them.

So talking about the policies and what Trump is doing while in power is whining about a lost election? — Christoffer

Talking critically about the policies and what Trump is doing while in power is whining about a lost election.

Actually, any negative or critical talk of God Emperor Trump is a sign of the person suffering from Trump derangement syndrome, at least in the eyes of the cult members. Actually, anything that isn't supportive of Trump is a sign of that.

The pretense that Trump is somehow uniquely bad, while categorically ignoring that the Biden administration was objectively an unmitigated trainwreck and probably among the worst of all time, is childish and suggests a delusional view of reality that is unbecoming of adults, let alone philosophically-inclined, intelligent people.

And these people simultaneously fail to understand that they are part of the problem. America (and large parts of the world, for that matter) are done with them, and people like them, the ideas they uphold and their hypocrisy.

The total lack of self-reflection amidst the moral whinging makes this collective mental breakdown even harder to watch.

It's like watching children getting confronted with reality. But they throw a tantrum and there is no adult around to spank them.

The pretense that Trump is somehow uniquely bad — Tzeentch

He isn't uniquely bad? Regardless of how bad others are, this is undoubtedly an odd statement about Trump.

while categorically ignoring that the Biden administration was objectively an unmitigated trainwreck and probably among the worst of all time, is childish and suggests a delusional view of reality that is unbecoming of adults, let alone philosophically-inclined, intelligent people. — Tzeentch

Why is it that people like you seem to defend Trump by just trying to flip things towards Biden every time? It's like you are unable to discuss Trump and criticism against him without adhering to whataboutism and trying to change the narrative to be about Biden. This thread is about Trump and so the defense against any criticism of Trump is not "but Biden also bad and badder than Trump".

Talk about childish level of attempt at philosophical intelligence on top of an such ad hominem answer.

America (and large parts of the world, for that matter) are done with them, and people like them, the ideas they uphold and their hypocrisy. — Tzeentch

Which people? What ideas specifically?

The total lack of self-reflection amidst the moral whinging makes this collective mental breakdown even harder to watch. — Tzeentch

If you mean supporters of democrats, then compared to the conservative right wing I seem to see a lot of self-reflection. There's a lot of attempts at figuring out why democrats didn't gained votes among working class people. I've yet to see much self-reflection among the conservative republicans though. Or do you mean they're infallible and don't have to?

It's like watching children getting confronted with reality. But they throw a tantrum and there is no adult around to spank them. — Tzeentch

Are you really defending Trump and his followers with that? Really? Trump, Musk etc.? They're the adults in the room? Give me a fucking break

Are you really defending Trump and his followers with that? — Christoffer

I'm defending no one. I'm scolding you lot.

I didn’t know that the country’s largest and most bloated employer, the US government, still had half of its workforce working from home. Working from home is fine, but it’s unbefitting for a government and bureaucracy still paying for empty offices with tax-payer funds. Trump ended that and froze the hiring of bureaucrats.

https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2025/01/20/donald-trump-inauguration-day-news-updates-analysis/a-government-hiring-freeze-and-end-to-remote-work-00199548

Remember this when an anti-Trumper speaks of the “rule of law” or “democracy” in a somber tone.

I'm defending no one. I'm scolding you lot. — Tzeentch

Neither gives the impression that you are anything more than what you are yourself criticizing. You may want to turn that self-reflection back on yourself before you embarrass yourself any further.

Good riddance!

What is the Paris Agreement? Trump pulled the US out — again

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/climate/what-is-the-paris-agreement

Some sweet justice on this one. Those 50 or so intelligence officials who lied about Hunter’s laptop in order to influence the 2020 election all just got their security clearances revoked. Oh, so did John R. Bolton.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/holding-former-government-officials-accountablefor-election-interference-and-improper-disclosure-of-sensitive-governmental-information/

:lol:

To all: NOS4A2 has made outrageous remarks and refused to reply to questions about his remarks. I request no one interact with him until/unless he replies. My own feeling is that while the lounge is a place for very informal discussion, it is unacceptable to refuse response to civil questions and yet still participate in the discussion. His is the behaviour of a troll, and I request we shun him while he behaves that way.

:lol: — Tzeentch

The use of that emoji as a response just further cements how you follow the same rhetorical pattern as any other Twitter warrior.

To all: NOS4A2 has made outrageous remarks and refused to reply to questions about his remarks. I request no one interact with him until/unless he replies. My own feeling is that while the lounge is a place for very informal discussion, it is unacceptable to refuse response to civil questions and yet still participate in the discussion. His is the behaviour of a troll, and I request we shun him while he behaves that way. — tim wood

I've asked and wondered why he's constantly allowed this behavior. Some have been banned for less, but the constant spamming in this thread of his Trump propaganda-level of discourse is surprising that it keeps getting allowed. And it seems it's all he ever does on this forum; pushing these narratives like an evangelical servant of the MAGA cult.

It's rather impossible to have a proper discussion about Trump, MAGA and the impact of them that's also elevated from the normal discourse online when we have people like that just constantly spamming bullshit and twitter crap-level rage baits.

I'm asking mods (@Jamal?) again... why? Isn't there at least some kind of level principle the lounge should be existing on as well? Or is the lounge just basically the trash heap of the forum? Then how would we ever be able to discuss news-related topics if it's basically "anything goes" and most threads get hijacked by single individuals who just spam threads to death as their main contribution to the forum? There has to be some level of proper discourse principles even for the lounge, no?

If it's how things go, fine, but I find it interesting to discuss these topics on a more elevated level that doesn't need to be full blown philosophical essays. Only, there's a fly in the soup.

Christoffer's posts are filled with anti-American bigotry and the hatred of others due to their political beliefs.

Good. They’ve already been to around 1500 years in prison. I would wonder if we could compare that with the treatment of the arsonists and urine-chucking rioters of 2020.

The problem with the little J6 riot in comparison to the countless riots of the previous years was that J6 was imprinted on the anti-Trump psyche with record levels of propaganda, for instance the Hollywood-produced J6 inquiry. Hardly anyone remembers that rioters stormed the Whitehouse months earlier, indicted of crimes ranging from "attempted murder, assaulting a law enforcement officer, arson, burglary of a federally-licensed firearms dealer, damaging federal property, malicious destruction of property using fire or explosives, felon in possession of a firearm and ammunition, unlawful possession of a destructive device, inciting a riot, felony civil disorder, and others".

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/over-300-people-facing-federal-charges-crimes-committed-during-nationwide-demonstrations

:up:

objectively an unmitigated trainwreck — Tzeentch

↑ tweet; such magnificent exaggeration that "objectively" seems like a joke :)

Good riddance! — NOS4A2

... because screw the environment!

.. because screw the environment!

More like "screw useless performative boondoggles".

:100: :up:

An unmitigated trainwreck is the only proper name for the Biden administration.

It completely mishandled Ukraine and Gaza, and estranged half the world causing US power in the Persian Gulf and much of South-East Asia to all but collapse. It pushed Russia into the arms of the Chinese, and it pushed various influential countries to join the BRICS.

It did all of this by exhibiting the same sense of self-importance and estrangement from reality as the people who are having a breakdown over Trump's second term.

In this American political era, whoever has the best story (fiction or non-fiction) wins. Period. Facts, other than who's giving the most money to who, are irrelevant in politics. In 2020, the story of the overbearing rich taking advantage of middle America won. In 2024, the story of overbearing liberal progressives destroying America won. — alleybear

You’re right— but why some stupid stories and explanations are even accepted depends largely on evened people are afraid or unhappy. Biden and democrats could have done a lot more to help the majority of Americans instead of taking baby steps.

True, a lot of things were blocked by the reactionary courts or thwarted by Sinema and Manchin— but that’s only some of the story. He could have pushed as much as Trump is pushing now— and he didn’t. He half-assed it. So he lost.

The right is great at solving problems that they fabricated — like the emergency on the border that doesn’t exist, or the energy emergency that doesn’t exist, or guys playing in women sports that doesn’t exist. Maybe tomorrow jaywalking will be whipped up to be the problem of our time. Sounds ridiculous- but give it 3 months on Fox News, and we’ll all be talking about it. Like the “stolen election” bullshit.

So stories matter, but mostly vulnerable people fall for them. Social media have helped this process along.