• Ludwig V
    1.8k
    I don’t think Putin or Russia did anything to cultivate Trump as an asset, but that nevertheless that is what he has become, much to Russia’s surprise and delight. It’s beyond their wildest dreams, something they could never have engineered.Wayfarer
    True, they never could have engineered it. But what Trump is doing was planned in advance in the US. The details are not public, of course, but the direction of travel is well documented. It is hard to believe that Putin was not aware of the possibility. It may even have been what he was waiting for.
  • Wayfarer
    23.8k
    I think Trump is acting spontaneously out of his admiration of Putin. He wants the power Putin has to destroy enemies and have journalists killed. Putin represents Trump’s idealized vision of a strong man, the man that Trump can never be but aspires to be. But Putin is not actually that strong, he’s the cunning and lucky thug that Yeltsin passed the torch to, so even in that Trump is wrong.
  • Benkei
    7.9k
    Trump's relationships are transactional. What's he getting out of it? I think part of the answer is that he's clearing his desk in order to attend to China and another part is that he's trying to peel Russia away from China. Ideally, he would like Putin as an ally, but making him neutral would help too. It's quite likely that he sees Putin as a better ally than Europe.Ludwig V

    Your first two sentences make complete sense to me but your answer to your own question doesn't.

    I don't buy for a minute Trump has a geopolitical agenda - he's never shown any inclination to understanding international relations or find a country on a map. Whatever motivates him has to be much nearer in time, benefit and probably more personal, considering his obvious narcissism.
  • Christoffer
    2.3k
    Trump is acting according to "art of the deal". He's trying to push others because so many others are relying on the US. He can push Europe, Ukraine, everyone at the moment until he gets pushed back.

    The fact of the matter is that the only way to stop Trump internationally is to push back. To not give in to his behavior. If he push hard, others need to push harder, to make sure he realizes he might lose something. In his eyes, he's not losing anything by losing relations with other nations, he's focused on "owning" the deals with these nations. He's behaving as a company in deals with other companies, not as collaborating nations.

    As such, other nations cannot act on diplomacy as usual, they need to adopt the dealmaking behavior of Trump. And if they do it correctly, they will put him in his place.
  • Ludwig V
    1.8k
    I think Trump is acting spontaneously out of his admiration of Putin. He wants the power Putin has to destroy enemies and have journalists killed. Putin represents Trump’s idealized vision of a strong man, the man that Trump can never be but aspires to be. But Putin is not actually that strong, he’s the cunning and lucky thug that Yeltsin passed the torch to, so even in that Trump is wrong.Wayfarer
    Your first two sentences make complete sense to me but your answer to your own question doesn't. I don't buy for a minute Trump has a geopolitical agenda - he's never shown any inclination to understanding international relations or find a country on a map. Whatever motivates him has to be much nearer in time, benefit and probably more personal, considering his obvious narcissism.Benkei
    Well, there's lots of room for speculation and different opinions. But bear in mind that he has people around him as advisers/colleagues - notably Musk and Vance. They are very different people.

    Trump is acting according to "art of the deal". ....... As such, other nations cannot act on diplomacy as usual, they need to adopt the dealmaking behavior of Trump. And if they do it correctly, they will put him in his place.Christoffer
    I get the impression that all the European Governments have recognized that and are working hard to adjust. They'll likely work out what they can do and how to do it before long. Whether they can "put him in his place" is another matter. There'll be a lot of damage that can't be repaired - ever.
  • Christoffer
    2.3k
    I get the impression that all the European Governments have recognized that and are working hard to adjust. They'll likely work out what they can do and how to do it before long. Whether they can "put him in his place" is another matter. There'll be a lot of damage that can't be repaired - ever.Ludwig V

    The range of industry partnerships that can be achieved within EU could just cut any trading of these things towards the US. If we also organize trade deals with Canada, essentially free trade, we gain access to a massive set of resources. If the EU establish these things we can cut off the US entirely without much setbacks to the economy, but it would tank large parts of the US economy, especially if the trade moves from being between Canada and the US to Canada to the EU.
  • NOS4A2
    9.5k


    Well, I live in a country that has "forced conscription", where in my constitution it is written that "All Finnish citizens have a duty to defend their country". We, just like Sweden, have the idea of "Total defense". That's what you need to deter a bully next to you that will interfere in your matters and will try to dominate you. Worked against Stalin, will work against Putin. The doesn't have to have such, because you have oceans on both sides and Canada and Mexico.

    And Ukraine's constitution declares that no elections under wartime. So you just go with meaningless Kremlin lines there of Zelenskyi being a dictator. Russia doesn't have free elections even during peacetime.

    Now it’s not so much that Ukrainians want to, it’s that they have to. Something-or-other oblige’s them, even with the 90,000 desertions, the people hiding or else be black-bagged by roving bands of conscription police. By “forced conscription” I mean they’re kidnapping people in the street and sending them to the front lines. Is that what Finland does? And sanctioning political opponents? Consolidating media? Banning critics? Banning languages? Banning religious organizations? Is that how the Fins deter bullies?

    So you are totally clueless about this. Start with Putin's "On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians" speech. That's Putin's Mein Kampf where he spills out what is the right future for Ukraine. And then there's ample amount of Russian propaganda about this intended for the Russian people and how Russia will conquer back Novorossiya, New Russia, as it was called.

    A picture of a woman holding the "Correct" map in 2015

    A woman holding a map. Ok.

    There is nothing in Putin’s essay about any imperial ambitions. The essay is nothing like Mein Kempf, at all. Why would you say that, knowing anyone can read it and see that your claims are untrue? Where do you get this from? Who or what is telling you what to think, here?

    You understand the difference between a confederacy or an union. I've always said that the EU is a confederacy of independent states desperately trying to be an union. So in the end, it's Finnish law. Just as it is if the country is us or Hungary or Spain etc.

    European law has primacy, I’m afraid.

    https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/glossary/primacy-of-eu-law-precedence-supremacy.html
  • Mikie
    7k
    It was obviously a set-upLudwig V

    I don’t think so. I think the underlying hostility towards Zelensky was there all along, but what happened was JD Vance didn’t like being challenged on TV and saw an opportunity to be fake-indignant, as is his performative nature— and of course, Trump couldn’t just sit there and look like less of a manly man, so he had to jump in as well.

    They both looked like ridiculous children, and expressed themselves so inarticulately and stupidly that even though I like the idea of a ceasefire, I was cringing. I’m sure his followers eat it up.

    But anyway — it wasn’t “planned.” The resentment was right below the surface, and Vance broke the glass. Zelensky did himself no favors by getting frustrated at reporters not letting him talk and Vance’s comments about diplomacy. But in his defense, he’s really not holding many cards — Trump’s right about that. That can be very irritating.
  • jorndoe
    3.8k
    “Nyet means Nyet. Russia’s NATO enlargement Red Lines”.NOS4A2

    Ukraine also has red lines known as borders; most sovereign nations do.

    Trump's relationships are transactional. What's he getting out of it? I think part of the answer is that he's clearing his desk in order to attend to China and another part is that he's trying to peel Russia away from China. Ideally, he would like Putin as an ally, but making him neutral would help too. It's quite likely that he sees Putin as a better ally than Europe.Ludwig V

    I guess he should transact away, though there's more to politics.
    Backstabbing long-standing allies then means no more trust.
    If he ditches NATO, moves all focus to China and there's an uptick in related activities, then he shouldn't be surprised if he's alone in case "Little green men" start appearing in Alaska or whatever.
    Economics, trade, US$ dependencies, whatever, seems to be moving off, which I'm sure he'll find someone else to blame for, and his flock will believe him.
  • javi2541997
    6.1k
    European law has primacy, I’m afraid.NOS4A2
    and

    European law has primacy in some matters like obligations and contracts. Yet national law still has its primacy in key aspects like the constitution and criminal law/procedure. Nonetheless, it is important to highlight that the EU law is not about to hold a "primacy" but to get a community acquis with the aim of rowing together in the same direction.
  • NOS4A2
    9.5k


    Ukraine also has red lines known as borders; most sovereign nations do.

    It had borders. Then two republics seceded from the land. One wonders why we never rattled our sabres and threw around our cash when Kiev invaded them, given our talk of borders and sovereignty and all.
  • jorndoe
    3.8k
    , they didn't. They were pseudo-subsumed into Putin's Russia.
  • NOS4A2
    9.5k


    I guess border and sovereignty don’t mean so much anymore. That was fast.
  • frank
    16.6k
    Is Vance actually the president at this point?
  • Ludwig V
    1.8k
    The range of industry partnerships that can be achieved within EU could just cut any trading of these things towards the US. If we also organize trade deals with Canada, essentially free trade, we gain access to a massive set of resources. If the EU establish these things we can cut off the US entirely without much setbacks to the economy, but it would tank large parts of the US economy, especially if the trade moves from being between Canada and the US to Canada to the EU.Christoffer
    Well, that seems like a good idea - and the markets didn't like Trump's Tariffs on Canada. But it may not be possible and even if it is, there'll be a lot of disturbance and lost business. So it's a serious upset.

    But anyway — it wasn’t “planned.” The resentment was right below the surface, and Vance broke the glass. Zelensky did himself no favors by getting frustrated at reporters not letting him talk and Vance’s comments about diplomacy. But in his defense, he’s really not holding many cards — Trump’s right about that. That can be very irritating.Mikie
    You may be right. Trump often does have a point. What's irritating is the way he sets about dealing with it. Zelemsky also has a point. Their proposed deal buys the Russians off in the short term and leaves Ukraine wide open to phase 2 of the special operation whenever Putin is ready. No doubt what Trump and Vance meant about him having no cards was that they could pull the plug on their aid and throw him to the Russians. So that's what they've done. They may have miscalculated, but it'll be a very close thing. And in the light of that, I find it hard to believe that it wasn't planned. (Nevertheless, I would have signed the deal on the basis that it gave me time to work out how to manage without the US. When that is sorted out, the minng contract becomes a mere piece of paper.

    Backstabbing long-standing allies then means no more trust.jorndoe
    Yes. But it doesn't just affect Trump. No matter who's the next President, we will all know that any deals could be upset by whoever is the next President. The fracture in NATO is very likely permanent. Geopolitics re-shaped in 40 days.
  • ssu
    9.1k
    There is nothing in Putin’s essay about any imperial ambitions.NOS4A2
    Really?

    Putin starts it like this:
    During the recent Direct Line, when I was asked about Russian-Ukrainian relations, I said that Russians and Ukrainians were one people – a single whole. These words were not driven by some short-term considerations or prompted by the current political context. It is what I have said on numerous occasions and what I firmly believe.
    Try to say this, they are just one people, is quite an offense of another sovereign state. And he doesn't think this only as a shared heritage.

    I am confident that true sovereignty of Ukraine is possible only in partnership with Russia.
    Possible only in partnership with Russia. Quite clear there.

    And then there's a multitude of lies how the Russian people have been robbed of Ukraine and how the independence of Ukraine is this machination from the evil West, hence the artificiality of a sovereign Ukraine.

    We can disagree about minor details, background and logics behind certain decisions. One fact is crystal clear: Russia was robbed, indeed.

    When working on this article, I relied on open-source documents that contain well-known facts rather than on some secret records. The leaders of modern Ukraine and their external ”patrons“ prefer to overlook these facts. They do not miss a chance, however, both inside the country and abroad, to condemn ”the crimes of the Soviet regime,“ listing among them events with which neither the CPSU, nor the USSR, let alone modern Russia, have anything to do. At the same time, the Bolsheviks' efforts to detach from Russia its historical territories are not considered a crime. And we know why: if they brought about the weakening of Russia, our ill-wishes are happy with that.

    Hence it's the Bolsheviks and later on former head of Soviet Union that made this unjust thing for mother Russia. Now if you don't see the imperialism in this, you don't see much and are not as bright as I thought you are.

    European law has primacy, I’m afraid.NOS4A2
    You think. If you think that the EU members are like Ohio and Wyoming, think again.

    * * *

    And now you do have the most dumbest trade war. So happy self-mutilation with raising prices that with 25% tariffs are a sure thing.

    I'm just waiting when the idiot will start the trade war with the EU. Won't be long, I guess.

    Trump is quite likely going to walk away from NATO, so I guess that's all that great winning. After all, when Elon agrees on something, it has to be a great idea.

    GlBCrjkW4AAXIJX.jpg
  • Benkei
    7.9k
    Why is his X in Cyrillic script?
  • ssu
    9.1k
    Oh, I think the picture is taken from some Russian follower of X or something. Actually fittingly.

    I just occasionally view X as it's simply a propaganda machine: however you can try to find the sane people's tweets/messages, along comes Elon Musk and the bunch.
  • tim wood
    9.5k
    Let's see how many lies Trump tells tonight. I am going to try to keep count. Anyone one else want to try to keep track, too?
  • tim wood
    9.5k
    Trump's address to the US Congress. 98% lies, misinformation, disinformation, misrepresentation. A true and unfortunately skillful and relentless weasel and liar. But alas, I'm convinced it's all theater for ultimately Russian interests. I'm persuaded of that because it makes sense In itself, and without it everything else does not really hold together. And he helps it along with his own pathology.
  • NOS4A2
    9.5k


    Try to say this, they are just one people, is quite an offense of another sovereign state. And he doesn't think this only as a shared heritage.

    All of it is to argue that the “anti-Russian project”, as he calls it, is unwarranted. “Partnership” assumes 2 separate entities, not one. Drawing on their shared history he goes on to describe this partnership in detail, how good it used to be and how much the Russian federation supported it, and laments the loss of the “economic unity”. Sounds like ambitions of the EU, to me. Right or wrong none of it shows a hint of any imperial ambition, despite what the cold-war propagandists of the Atlantic Council says. Further, the unmitigated fears of EU annd NATO leaders, and especially Zelensky’s claims that he is the bulwark stopping Putin from invading the rest of Europe, and democracy itself, is complete nonsense.

    But because of your bright leaders that all might change and once again the Europeans invite world war as they insert themselves in a conflict they have no business meddling in. Now we get to watch them virtue-signal right into destruction.

    And now you do have the most dumbest trade war. So happy self-mutilation with raising prices that with 25% tariffs are a sure thing.

    I'm just waiting when the idiot will start the trade war with the EU. Won't be long, I guess.

    Trump is quite likely going to walk away from NATO, so I guess that's all that great winning. After all, when Elon agrees on something, it has to be a great idea.

    Of course, Trump’s tariffs are essentially a tax on the American citizen. That’s why it’s all so funny when people like Trudeau turn all Trumpian in response and starts to tax his own citizens. I suspect the EU will follow suit.
  • tim wood
    9.5k
    Trump spent several minutes implying that hundreds of thousands of US Social Security checks are sent out each month to persons between 120 to 300 years old. I have submitted a FOIA request to the SSA for a breakdown of how many people over age 110 get checks each month, in ten-year increments. I expect there to be a few between 100 and 110, and none above that. And as Trump read off his nonsense, Vance and Johnson just bobbed their heads like bobble-head dolls in approving agreement, proving beyond all doubt they're just spineless lickspittles that eat and smile at any s**t their dear leader emits.
  • ssu
    9.1k
    That’s why it’s all so funny when people like Trudeau turn all Trumpian in response and starts to tax his own citizens.NOS4A2
    Canada isn't going with 25% tariffs on everything, so the response isn't Trumpian. I find the 100% tariffs on Tesla quite apt to the situation. And of course, it can be something else:

    Ontario Premier Doug Ford says he's willing to cut off power supply to the US if President Donald Trump continues with tariffs against Canada.

    Ford announced his retaliatory plans shortly after Trump implemented a 25% tariff against Canadian imported goods and a 10% tariff on Canadian energy.

    He said he would implement his own 25% surcharge on Canadian electricity exports to three US states: Michigan, New York and Minnesota.

    If the US tariffs are escalated, he said, he would consider completely cutting those states off from Canadian power.

    And on the other nonsense you write, it just reinforces my views that NATO is going to be dead, or at least Trump cannot be counted on. Perhaps the most optimist scenario is that the US goes for a while out during the Trumpian fit, just as De Gaulle took France a bit out from the pact for a while.

    But likely the damage has been done.
  • Wayfarer
    23.8k
    By all reports, the SOTU address was another fire hydrant of mendacity, constantly applauded by the MAGA zombies. Business as usual.
  • Tzeentch
    4k
    Honestly, it was quite obvious that Zelensky was set up.

    Either he was going to accept the deal, say thanks and bugger off, or, if he got uppity, they'd pull this scene to have an excuse to cut him off.

    But where does this idea come from that Trump wants to 'ally Russia'?

    That's literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
  • Echarmion
    2.7k
    But where does this idea come from that Trump wants to 'ally Russia'?

    That's literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
    Tzeentch

    Sure, it's very dumb, but if he's not trying that, then what the fuck is he doing?
  • ssu
    9.1k
    And here's Trump's greatest gift to Americans: the Trump recession! Came in quite quickly.

    (Forbes, March 4th 2025) A slew of economic data is signaling that a recession is around the corner. The impending economic contraction, and possibly a recession, is primarily being caused by President Donald Trump’s tariffs imposed on Canada, China, and Mexico and the wave of retaliation which has now followed. Moreover, the chaotic layoff of federal workers will likely lead to a rise in unemployment and tightening of spending by those losing their jobs. Additionally, deportations of undocumented immigrants, as well as the fear thereof, is causing significant uncertainty in several important economic sectors such as construction, farming, hospitality, poultry, and small businesses.

    On Monday, a closely watched model of gross domestic product level, the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta’s GDPNow, estimated significant decline of 2.8% in annualized growth for this quarter. This is a sharp contrast from a 2.3% increase last week. Unlike the quarterly GDP figure, which is a lagging indicator, GDPNow is the Federal Reserve’s running estimate of real GDP growth based on available economic data for the current measured quarter.

    960x0.jpg?format=jpg&width=1440
    The GDPNow model estimate for real GDP growth (seasonally adjusted annual rate) in the first quarter of 2025 is -2.8 percent on March 3, down from -1.5 percent on February 28.

    This kind of information the Trump administration doesn't want to be leaked out. Unfortunately for Trump, the local Federal Reserve Banks are not part of the government. There also is a real possibility of a stock market crash, if they aren't ready to support the market. Gold, anyone? Especially if there is a crash, also gold prices might go down for a while.

    Exactly.
  • Punshhh
    2.7k
    But where does this idea come from that Trump wants to 'ally Russia'?

    That's literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
    — Tzeentch

    Sure, it's very dumb, but if he's not trying that, then what the fuck is he doing?

    If Trump is a genius and is playing a blinder in ending this war. We will see him turn the screw big time on Putin in the coming days. Perhaps after Zelenskyy has signed the mineral deal. So we will have our answer at that point. Alternatively if he follows a course of some kind of appeasement and continues to attack Europe then we will know that he is a Putin ally.
  • Punshhh
    2.7k
    They need to check out Fort Knox quick. To check if there is any gold left.
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