Is there ambiguity in being a human? — Harry Hindu
The point is that it isn't an counterexample if we go by the definition that being anything means having a majority of the traits for that thing. — Harry Hindu
Just one counterexample is sufficient to disprove your claim that every single human without exception is either (unambiguously) biologically male or (unambiguously) biologically female. — Michael
There is a critical distinction here.Yes, if by "human" you mean "homo sapiens".
Homo sapiens evolved from homo antecessor, but there was never some single generation where someone who was unambiguously homo antecessor gave birth to someone who was unambiguously homo sapiens.
It was a gradual development from one to the other, with generations of ambiguity in between. — Michael
Intersex is not a trait that is passed down to the next generation like the traits that natural selection promotes for evolving into a new species. — Harry Hindu
A 46,XY mother who developed as a normal woman underwent spontaneous puberty, reached menarche, menstruated regularly, experienced two unassisted pregnancies, and gave birth to a 46,XY daughter with complete gonadal dysgenesis.
Intersex is not a trait that is passed down to the next generation — Harry Hindu
Sure, genetic disorders can be passed down to the next generation. — Harry Hindu
But why are we discussing sex — Harry Hindu
Why did you oblige them and not just say they are off-topic? If I recall, you brought up sex earlier in the thread. — Harry Hindu
Why have a discussion about bathrooms, sports, and prisons if sex and gender are separate things and bathrooms are divided by sex, not gender? — Harry Hindu
You keep bringing up intersex. — Harry Hindu
Right, but if sex and gender are separate, then why isn't your rebuttal that we are off-topic rather than assume the premise that sex and gender are the same which is where the bathroom, sports and prisons issues are rooted?Yes, because people like you are claiming that only biological men should use the men's bathrooms and only biological women should use the women's bathrooms. You are the one saying that bathrooms should be divided by biological sex, so I want to know what you think we should about people who are biologically intersex. — Michael
Right, but if sex and gender are separate, then why isn't your rebuttal that we are off-topic rather than assume the premise that sex and gender are the same which is where the bathroom, sports and prisons issues are rooted? — Harry Hindu
Intersex people can use whichever bathroom they want. What does this have to do with trans-people? A vast majority of trans-people are not intersex. — Harry Hindu
Because sex and gender are separate. So you're comparing apples and oranges, right?So why is it acceptable for intersex people to use whichever bathroom they want but not trans people? In allowing intersex people in men's bathrooms and intersex people in women's bathrooms you've already accepted that men's bathrooms are not exclusively for biological males and women's bathrooms not exclusively for biological females. — Michael
Because sex and gender are separate. — Harry Hindu
So you're comparing apples and oranges, right? — Harry Hindu
The men's bathroom is exclusively for men and intersex people. Women's bathrooms are for women and intersex people. I'm not sure how trans-people, which have nothing to do with sex, fits in here. — Harry Hindu
I'm playing along with your assertion that sex and gender are separate and showing your inconsistency in constantly going on about sex in a thread about gender.I thought you disagreed with this view? — Michael
The men's bathroom is exclusively for men and intersex people. Women's bathrooms are for women and intersex people. — Harry Hindu
If it's not off-topic then sex and gender are one and the same. — Harry Hindu
You're not answering my question. Why do you group trans-people with people defined by their sex if sex and gender are separate things? You are making a category mistake.Why?
Why not: the men's bathroom is exclusively for any biological man who identifies as a man, biological woman who identifies as a man, or intersex person who identifies as man and the women's bathroom is exclusively for any biological woman who identifies as a woman, biological man who identifies as a woman, or intersex person who identifies as a woman? — Michael
How are they not the same thing? What is the relationship between the two?I think the point trans activists were making was that gender and biological sex are not necessarily the same the thing. There's no reason we couldn't separate them. — frank
You're not answering my question. Why do you group trans-people with people defined by their sex if sex and gender are separate things? You are making a category mistake. — Harry Hindu
How are they not the same thing? What is the relationship between the two? — Harry Hindu
What I'm saying is that if gender and sex are not the same thing, the discussing intersex is off-topic.I'm addressing the relevant issue.
You say that an intersex person can use whichever bathroom they are most comfortable using. Why not allow a non-intersex person to use whichever bathroom they are most comfortable using? — Michael
Those roles are sexist, gender-based stereotypes. Is that not clear to you?Trans activists wanted to say that gender is about roles people play in society. A biological male can dress and behave in a typically feminine way. Therefore, people can transition if they want to.
Is that not clear to you? — frank
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