More attention being diverted as the country’s future is squandered in the service of the fossil fuel lobby and Wall Street — which owns Trump and the republican party. It’s a good strategy.

People somehow voted for this fascist asshole, so you reap what you sow. If most Americans don’t like it, as polling indicates, then show up in the streets and in the polling booth next time.

The immigration thing is especially funny. They ran on a problem that didn’t exist, continue to claim it’s the end of the world, and now use it to turn the US into a military dictatorship. And all you have to do is say “illegal alien” or immigrant. Reminds me of Israel — bomb a school or hospital? Hamas was there. Kill thousands of kids? Hamas. Turn Gaza to rubble? Hamas.

Send troops to “subdue” peaceful protests? Immigrants.

And no one seems to care. Oh well.

Anyone who cheers on rioters flying foreign flags and burning the flags of their host country is not a "normal American." — BitconnectCarlos

Did I say that?

Nope, but the usual strawman argument from you.

I think the real question is the enthusiasm Trump wants to federalize the National Guard and then use of the armed forces in the manner that previously his cabinet (during the last Trump administration) was not so eager to use. Talk about a power grab. Stephen Miller craved for many more arrests and naturally ICE didn't coordinate with local police (why should they, because California is lead by democrats), hence no wonder you got this in the end.

Would Trump make such a show in a MAGA voting city or state? Nope, even if many red states have their share of illegal immigrants.

Well, if only those motherfucking insurrectionists of Jan 6th would have had to face off with the National Guard and the Marines, perhaps the Congress wouldn't have been overrun with the member of the Congress having to flee the invading mob. Remember those rioters who attacked the police... that TACO-Trump then pardoned?

Yeah, it's a whimsical shit show of an administration...

For normal Americans, rioters flying foreign flags and burning American ones is not a cause to rally around. — BitconnectCarlos

I'm not sure why flag waving or burning flags is the decisive factor. For "normal people" once a government stops representing basic values and the rule of law such as habeas corpus maybe burning a flag is cathartic or symbolic enough for them to distance themselves from the government they disagree with. Of course, normal Americans are too stupid so probably they think like you do and have uncritical allegiance to bullshit.

Haven't seen many flag burnings in the US lately.

But I've noticed a few showing the Stars and Stripes upside down.

This whole foray in LA is amazing in its effects. Anti-Trumpism has reduced them to defending illegals, MS-13 members, mobs waving foreign flags, riots, law breaking, and routine violence.

I try to make it a rule not to engage with you because you're one of the worst persons I know, morally and intellectually. Considering the level regularly revealed in the politics threads; that's quite a feat.

Anyhoo, calling it “amazing” that people are protesting mass arrests and military deployment on domestic soil is a revealing choice. What’s truly amazing is how quickly you conflate basic decency with criminal complicity, as if the only two political positions left in America are “support Trump” or “defend MS-13.” What marvelous analysis... :snicker:

Nobody’s out there waving machetes for drug cartels. They’re standing in the streets because federal agents are snatching people at bus stops and supermarkets like it’s a dystopian lottery, because Marines are marching through Los Angeles like it’s Fallujah, and because a sitting president decided that immigration enforcement now comes with Humvees. People are protesting that; not gang violence, not borderless anarchy but state violence masquerading as law and order.

And let’s dispense with the flag nonsense. The idea that the presence of a Mexican flag at a protest is somehow proof of national betrayal is the sort of paranoid grievance that thrives only where empathy has been starved and racism abounds. Immigrants often love both the country they came from and the one they live in. Try holding two thoughts in your head at once, it won’t kill you.

As for the violence: if you can’t distinguish between a crowd of grieving families and a few people breaking windows after dark, you’re not trying to understand, you’re just trying to discredit. But we already know where your allegiance lies. That has been clear for years.

This isn’t about Trump, it’s about what’s being done in his name. When the state sends in troops to control its own population and people object, that isn’t “anti-Trumpism,” it’s the last gasp of civic duty. If your first instinct is to cheer for the troops rather than ask why they’re pointing rifles at citizens, then quite obviously you don't want a country - just supremacy.

It's an unfortunate fact that there are criminals and opportunists who will pile on to these protests and begin to burn cars, throw projectiles, attack police and generally create havoc. It gives Trump the perfect pretense to say he's restoring law and order and that the protestors are criminals (never mind that he himself freed 1,500 violent insurrectionists on his first day in office). But every incinerated Waymo feeds into Trump's narrative of illegal immigrants as violent criminals, and a lot of people are going to believe it.

It was the same in the Black Lives Matter protests after George Floyd. The whole world could see what an egregious act of murder it had been, but rioting crowds burning and looting buildings completely changed the public perception, and again played into the hands of the right, who will seek any excuse to invoke martial law.



And the Democrats are well aware of this dynamic. Adam Schiff: “The president would like nothing better than to create a conflict in L.A. to demonstrate his strongman credentials by then cracking down on the chaos,” said Mr. Schiff, who has clashed repeatedly with Mr. Trump and led his first impeachment. “The president is a chaos agent. He thrives on disorder. He thrives on situations that allow him to pretend, to act like a strongman.”

If the protestors really were able to conduct themselves in the spirit of non-violent resistance, it would take a lot of the wind out of Trump's sails. But, human nature being what it is, the protests will always attract a coterie of those who just want to rumble. They will provide the wedge that Trump needs to justify calling in the troops.

LA protests — no protesters have shot or killed a cop. Just a “day of love,” I guess. But funny how the Trump cult suddenly thinks otherwise. How could it be? It’s almost as if they have no principles whatsoever beyond Neanderthal-like loyalty to a team. Post hoc justifications are a laugh though.

Nevertheless, that said, the fault for the degree of escalation lies wholly and solely with Trump and Stephen Miller. They're itching for this kind of conflict, it validates all of Trump's inflammatory rhetoric about 'the evil Other' that animated his entire campaign. Bernie Sanders spells it out perfectly clearly - Trump is a dictator, a tyrant, who will brook no criticism and endure no challenge to his will. These protests, and the flare-ups of violence they trigger, are first and foremost a pretext for Trump asserting his dictatorial power.

It’s looking like he’s going to invoke the insurrection act on the 14th of June. Protests are organising in all major cities for Trump’s birthday parade. Once that touch paper has been lit there is no way back. The only hope is that enough people in the military refuse to participate.

The "protests" are spreading to other cities. It looks like Americans are in for another “summer of love”, just like in 2020.

The question is “why”? Why do Americans have to suffer yet again the destruction of their cities, the people in their roadways, the curfews, the violence and looting, the waving of foreign flags on American streets?

It’s not like there hasn’t been mass deportations before. Over 3 million individuals were removed from the country during the Obama administration. In 2013 alone over 83% were expelled without due process. Where were the activist judges? Where were the highly-televised protests and riots then?

Not only that, but around 1500 “No Kings” protests are planned across the country on June 14th, coinciding with the Army’s 250th birthday and the military parade. Why? I suspect the anti-Trump imagination sees in its soy-colored narrative the military parades of Russia or China, soldiers goose-stepping about, and assume Trump was inspired with his dictatorial aspirations. But the inspiration came from watching France's popular Bastille Day parade.

And of course, like everything, Trump is to blame. The great demiurge has entered the brains of rioters and now moves them like marionettes to inflict violence upon their countrymen. It's going to be an eventful summer!

The question is “why”? Why do Americans have to suffer yet again the destruction of their cities, the people in their roadways, the curfews, the violence and looting, the waving of foreign flags on American streets?

We all know why, to stroke Trump’s fragile ego. He want’s his pram to look extra shiny. No worry if some more blood is shed, it’s already in the hundreds of thousands (in proxy wars), beyond a certain point the numbers don’t matter any more.

If the protestors really were able to conduct themselves in the spirit of non-violent resistance, it would take a lot of the wind out of Trump's sails. But, human nature being what it is, the protests will always attract a coterie of those who just want to rumble. They will provide the wedge that Trump needs to justify calling in the troops. — Wayfarer

Not all protests are violent (in fact I'd say alot of them don't devolve into riots) and usually the level of violence depends on how law enforcement chooses to respond. Compare how the trucker convoy protests played out in Canada vs. Europe for instance. This is the problem with the Trump administration's approach since they're provoking a fight (intentionally) by using excessive means.

The question is “why”? Why do Americans have to suffer yet again the destruction of their cities, the people in their roadways, the curfews, the violence and looting, the waving of foreign flags on American streets? — NOS4A2

I thought you wanted social breakdown in the US. Didn't you?

And of course, like everything, Trump is to blame. — NOS4A2

Orange man bad.

Never mind the stores being destroyed and looted, the cops being assaulted, the cars burning on the streets, the Molotov cocktails, the rocks, the fire crackers launched at law enforcement -- Orange man bad.

Never mind the Jewish shops and centers being destroyed and vandalized with hateful graffiti and broken windows -- orange man bad.

Never mind the billionaires behind these protests; they're a totally organic response to deportation efforts! Orange man bad.

Let's all just focus on Trump's impure motives. :roll:

, how about Trump is a clown, the looters are bad, all the regular protesters aren't?

No, these riots are just extremely destructive. Maybe there's an argument for just letting California burn, though.

these riots — BitconnectCarlos

all the regular protesters — jorndoe

See the difference?

I thought you wanted social breakdown in the US. Didn't you?

Where do you come up with this stuff?

The protestors themselves seemingly don't want deportations. It's naive at best. There's also something very questionable about participating in a movement with widespread criminality. I'm seeing a lot of keffiyehs in these crowds.

Where do you come up with this stuff? — NOS4A2

I thought that's basically what you said. You hate the USA.

You the entire planet Earth and all living things. It’s basically what you said.

You the entire planet Earth and all living things. It’s basically what you said. — NOS4A2

:grin: Sorry if I misunderstood. I thought that's how you felt.

I have to say I did not expect this.

yep. But they shade off into each other in a way that we can't really deal with in real time.

usually the level of violence depends on how law enforcement chooses to respond — Mr Bee

Good lord. If this is the type of stuff Republicans deal with socially, I am unsurprised by their stupid reactions.

Do you think the rioting was so bad the Marines had to be sent in?

No, probably not. But I do think any large-scale rioting of this kind should be quelled. Whos to do it?

Edit: Appeal court just halted the requirement to hand 'em back to Newsom. So, i guess they're going in? NG, that is.

Why do you think Trump escalated the situation by deploying marines? We both agree the NG was enough, right?

It’s all about him looking a tough guy on the day of his parade, tomorrow.

You have to do the Trump voice when he’s being really mean when you say the big in italics.

I think that's obvious, but I don't think it's obvious to Amadeus.

Gotta squash those protesters. Unless they’re white Republicans storming the Capitol to overturn an election they didn’t like — then it’s a day of love.

People will find any reason whatsoever to justify what they or their team does, even if condemning it a minute earlier when it was the opposing team.

When we do it, it’s just.
When you do it, it’s unjust.

Pretty easy psychology. And so very predictable.