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  • Currently Reading
    The Histories by Herodotus.
  • Currently Reading
    What say you, Jamal?Noble Dust

    I refer you to the post above from , because I don’t remember that one very well, though I think I did read it. I have a feeling it’s a less substantial work than the other Austers I’ve read, all of which I remember more.

    According to the records, as of three years ago, Jamal has read Mr Vertigo, Leviathan, Moon Palace, and a couple of otherspraxis

    I think this is my list, in order of reading:

    The New York Trilogy
    Moon Palace
    Leviathan
    The Book of Illusions
    Oracle Night
    Mr Vertigo

    Except for Mr Vertigo, which I read about 8 or 9 or 6 years ago, I read the others probably between 25 and 19 years ago. They’re all memorable except Oracle Night, which I seem to recall thinking was just doing things he’d done better in the others, but which I also seem to recall quite enjoying. Or maybe it was that one that made me bored with Auster. Or maybe I never read it at all.

    I’d be interested to (re)read it.
  • A List of Intense Annoyances
    Attention spans are down to 5 seconds.
    Being interrupted or talked over.
    No one reads anything greater than 3 or 4 sentences.
    No one will read, watch, or listen to what you recommend - no matter how enthusiastically.
    People who, when describing what person X said, does a voice impression that reduces that X to a blithering idiot.
    Anyone who thinks "Saving Private Ryan" is a great movie.
    Reaction videos.
    The phrase "YOLO."
    Mikie

    I share your intense annoyance at being interrupted or talked over, but the others don't bother me much. To be sure, I'm annoyed at how addictive reaction videos can be--I've even watched reaction videos of reaction videos--but I can't say I experience intense annoyance; I've never seen Saving Private Ryan and have no interest in seeing it (I suppose the one that annoys me that everyone goes on about is the Shawshank Redemption, which I dislike); I had to look up "YOLO".

    Recommendations are quite interesting and I know it can be frustrating when people ignore yours. I've followed up on a few recommendations I've been given that have shaped my life importantly. However, you learn from disappointed experience to ignore most of them. Obviously who gives the recommendation is important, but also I think how the recommendation is given matters. I think the recommender has to make a case for it, rather than just "check out x, it's cool". It also has to come at the right time for the recommendee.

    Current intense annoyances of mine:

    • Liars and bullshitters: the reason this is intensely annoying to me and not just a bothersome but ordinary fact of life is that I didn't know until recently just how many of them there are. There are a lot of them. Disappointed!
    • The bureaucracy of national residency, visas, taxes, etc.
    • The punishment of ordinary Russian citizens by EU sanctions, banks, etc.
  • Welcome to The Philosophy Forum - an introduction thread
    I am from the United States and am moderately conservative. I am a Christian of the Catholic/Orthodox variety.Leontiskos

    Hey, you didn’t tell me that when you were asking for an invitation! :angry:

    Only kidding. Welcome aboard.
  • Currently Reading
    Seems like Dick was in the vanguardT Clark

    From a certain perspective, maybe he was, since he was influential in the New Wave SF of the sixties, when authors were reacting against the Utopianism of Golden Age SF. But since the nineties, I get the impression there’s been a lot of more or less utopian space opera. I don’t really read that stuff though (Banks, Reynolds, Hamilton, Vinge, etc.)
  • Currently Reading
    In a sense I guess he invented dystopian fictionT Clark

    Dystopian fiction goes back to the nineteenth century and there are several famous examples from the early twentieth century, so I don’t think so.

    Otherwise, thank you for attempting to explain your tastes, not an easy thing to do.
  • Currently Reading
    Yeah, I haven’t read as much PKD as you. Maybe I’ll change my mind. Sounds interesting.
  • Currently Reading
    Here’s where I’m coming from. So-called depressing stories and novels, though they might be about the pointlessness of existence and the stupidity of humankind and so on, can be so well-written, so full of energy and ideas, that they stimulate you more than depress you.
  • Currently Reading
    I'm responding just to say that Philip K. Dick is not depressing to me. On the contrary, I find his writing delightful and stimulating, the opposite of depressing. Especially Ubik. It's a blast. I expect many of his other novels, most of which I haven't read, to be similarly anti-depressive.

    Edit: what is depressing about PKD? I don't get it.
  • Anyone in the forum get an appendectomy?
    My favourite temperature for an appendectomy is 21 Celsius, dry air.
  • Currently Reading
    Real name - Adrian CzajkowskiT Clark

    Just a different spelling. People don’t buy books by apparently unpronounceable authors.
  • Currently Reading
    Just read The Unlimited Dream Company by J. G. Ballard.

    The last time I read a Ballard novel (Crash) and gave it a review, I was too hasty—I’ve since revised my estimation upwards—so I’ll refrain from saying much about this one. Once again, I didn’t like it much, but who knows what I’ll think in a few weeks. Some quotations:

    Soon after dawn I stood naked on the lawn among the drowsy pelicans.

    Again I ejaculated beside the tennis courts, and hurled my semen across the flower-beds.

    At the filling-station I ejaculated across the fuel pumps, and over the paintwork of the cars standing in front of the showroom. — Ballard

    Adrian TchaikovskyT Clark

    I like the spider stuff.

    Both from The Atrocity Exhibition. Weird stuffSrap Tasmaner

    Yes, I should probably read them as part of that book, as they were published.

    But don't miss Vermilion Sands for the other side of BallardSrap Tasmaner

    Now on my list :up:

    Currently reading The Book of Disquiet by Fernando Pessoa.
  • What is a "Woman"
    Has no one on this site read any sociology or anthropology?unenlightened

    I can name three or four members who probably have. Only slightly fewer than those who have read any philosophy.
  • The Argument from Reason
    It seems to me a lot of our traditional "mental" vocabulary does not refer to exclusively internal states of human beings, but rather to mental rather than, I guess, bodily interactions with the environment and objects. We distinguish, and presumably have for a very long time, between chopping down a tree and looking at it, wondering if it's big enough for the beam we need. Both descriptions involve both the guy with the sharp implement and the tree, so just as <chopping down a tree> doesn't map cleanly onto postures and movements of my body alone, in the absence of a tree, so <estimating a tree's yield> needn't map onto something going on in my brain in the absence of a tree.Srap Tasmaner

    I agree. We talked about the mind long before we gave much thought to brains--that is, when we were describing certain activities rather than describing something the brain does--but even from this point of view, what is mental can still be seen as material, just not in the neuro-reductionist way.

    As it happens, representational theories of mind will map the necessary tree onto my internal representation of the tree, and you'll see often on this forum theories that claim my goal in either case to produce a certain state of my internal model. I think that's a very different issue from whether our everyday vocabulary around thinking, perceiving, imagining, remembering, and so on, not only presupposes objects for these activities but folds them into terms that are in some ways holistic.Srap Tasmaner

    I'm not quite clear what you mean here. If you mean that a non-neuro-reductionist understanding of the mind, while it does presuppose mental objects, need not presuppose internal representations, then I think I probably agree.
  • Ukraine Crisis
    Not a fan, but he did bring hot dogs to Russia.
  • The Argument from Reason
    Does that make any sense?Srap Tasmaner

    I'm not finding much time to dedicate to TPF right now, except for posting photos of my lunch. I'll try to come back to it.
  • Best weather to buy pizza?
    The last time I had a pizza, probably two months ago, it was quite chilly. Maybe around 10-15 Celsius. I still wanted to sit outside in my shorts and t-shirt, and I refused the kindly offered blanket until I changed my mind and asked for a blanket after all. The pizza, which did not have a blanket, got cold very quickly, but it was good.

    My favourite weather for eating asparagus is drizzle.
  • The Argument from Reason
    I can see you have not been persuaded by the argument thus far and probably won’t be, until you can see a reason why you should accept. At that point, you might typically say I see. So - what is it that you see? (Or in the other case, what is it you’re not seeing?) Whatever it is (or isn’t) it won’t be seen as a consequence of anything physical that has passed between us.Wayfarer

    If you think that the use of reason within this discussion demonstrates the soundness of the argument from reason, I think you’ve misunderstood Srap’s criticism.

    He asked you to defend this:

    No belief is rationally inferred if it can be fully explained in terms of nonrational causesWayfarer

    That you will defend it with reason is irrelevant (although you haven’t actually defended it yet).

    I’d add that metaphysical naturalism can be true even if beliefs cannot be fully explained in terms of nonrational causes. Nonreductive materialism is popular among philosophers. Which takes us back to @180 Proof’s early response, which I don’t think you’ve addressed.
  • Best weather to buy pizza?
    Confusing. Firstly, the most important things you can do with a pizza are make it and eat it, and yet you only mention buying and ordering. Secondly, I know of the Fahrenheit scale but the numbers mean nothing to me, except that higher numbers are higher temperatures, just like other temperature scales. Thirdly, I don’t know what ambient temperature has to do with pizza. Certainly, I eat pizza in warm weather more than cold, but that’s mainly because I eat pizza only when I eat out, and when I eat out I like to sit at outdoor tables and don’t like sitting inside very much.

    So I voted while imagining that the numbers were Celsius, according to which I’d happily eat pizza in temperatures around 25 degrees, which is warm.
  • Bannings
    Sorry, I’ll try to insult you more directly and competently next time. :up:
  • Bannings


    You must have missed when I called you a radge here:
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/752675
  • Bannings
    Paisley is full of radges like Clarky, so I wouldn’t be surprised.
  • Bannings
    Yes, that was part of the problem.

    Nice Paisley reference.
  • Bannings
    I banned @introbert for being mostly unintelligible.
  • Currently Reading
    The Terminal Beach by J. G. Ballard.

    A collection of some of his earlier short stories. Mostly great. Lots of surrealism, Freud, Jung, and genre-wise more slipstream than science fiction.

    I’ll probably read a volume of his later short fiction next. Two stories I’m particularly interested in are “Why I Want to Fuck Ronald Reagan” and “The Assassination Of John Fitzgerald Kennedy Considered As A Downhill Motor Race”.
  • Morality is Coercive and Unrealistic
    I usually use hyphens for dashes but in this post—in your honor—I've used em dashes.T Clark

    Much appreciated.

    What a pain in the ass they are.T Clark

    Don't blame the dashes. Blame the world.
  • Atheist Dogma.
    I think the content of your post that I took the above quotes from is fair enough but I think the assumptions made in your last sentence are inaccurate. You assume I don't understand before rejecting.
    I disagree.
    universeness

    Yes, that was unnecessary. I was probably just trying to wind you up. It's a Scottish tradition; you can take it.

    My point is that identifying reasons for falling in love with someone is not post hoc. They are present in your thoughts during the very moments that the experience starts imo, the reasoning is just very fast and 'flash like'.universeness

    This is the issue and I think you're wrong. It reminds me of something that Bertrand Russell said about perception somewhere. He said something like, perception is inference from sense data to an image or model of the environment, and when it's automatic--because the environment is familiar and doesn't contain any surprises--it just means that the inferential process has just got really quick. This idea works no better for perception than it does for love, and I just think you're misunderstanding your own feelings.

    You, and imo, Zizek are suggesting that such as 'oh my goodness look at her over there, I think I'm in love!!' has no reasoning behind it. I think that's untrue. It's just that all the reasons are happening at top speed in your head.universeness

    So you might be conflating causes and reasons.

    Aesthetically stunning ....... tick
    Posture alluring (sitting or walking) ...... tick
    Body language ....... tick
    These reasons are manifest in parallel thought.
    universeness

    This is quite comical though. You don't fall in love using a checklist.

    But what you're talking about here is an assessment of attractiveness, which I accept might have a checklisty character, although even then I think it's probably post hoc. In any case, the assessment of attractiveness is not falling in love.
  • Atheist Dogma.
    Basically I agree with you. But the local religion is also part of the social and geopolitical situation. So perhaps it might be more accurate to say that religion is only part of the problem, or one factor in the problem. Or, perhaps still more accurate, that the local interpretation of the religion is a factor in the problem.Ludwig V

    :up:
  • Atheist Dogma.
    living in a liberal secular societyJamal

    I'm not in Russia right now BTW
  • Atheist Dogma.
    And when I say the things I've been saying it feels kinda wrong, in that I'm speaking from a position of privilege: the privilege of living in a liberal secular society that makes it too easy to take a contrarian anti-militant-atheist line.
  • Atheist Dogma.
    Religion's an enabler of those prejudices though innit. Not in the abstract. But would the world have had Qutub without an amenable Islamic ideology? I doubt it. Female genital mutilation without the religious practices that mandate it? I also doubt it.

    Being strongly critical of politically ascendent religion is an attempt to create a liberal notion of freedom, which must be affirmed to make more radical freedom possible. IMO anyway.
    fdrake

    I agree. But being strongly critical of politically ascendent religion is not the same as being critical of belief in God as such. Militant atheism seems precisely too much "in the abstract". I mean, it doesn't seem fit for purpose in undermining fundamentalism and female genital mutilation; these might be better undermined by variant interpretations of scripture.

    But I'm not strong on that point. I'd probably applaud a stronger anti-theistic movement in those parts of the world where theocracy is strong.
  • Atheist Dogma.
    Some of the conversation here has got me thinking. In my extremely secular milieu, militant atheism seems ... silly. But in, say, the US Bible belt or the Middle East, religion is still a very big deal and causes a lot of problems. There is an Islamic civil war on several fronts, one of which is a meaningful yet mostly religious dispute between different interpretations and traditions of Islam (Sunni vs Shia). In those circumstances I imagine an atheist might develop an extreme antipathy to religion in general. And in fact I know some Iranian Leftists who go out of their way to offend against Islamic customs and assert their atheism (they're not living in Iran).

    On the other hand, even in those circumstances, I can't really see how militant atheism would be either effective or necessary, since for most Muslims, their religion is just what gives shape and meaning to their lives at the ordinary everyday level. It's a luxury for me to say it, but it still looks to me like religion as such is not the problem, but the social and geopolitical situation in which religious divisions take on greater significance than otherwise.
  • Currently Reading
    Camp Concentration by Thomas M. Disch.
  • Atheist Dogma.
    Absolutely. And this opens up a related can of worms. It turns out that there is no neat separation of reason and emotion, that in fact reason is not even reasonable without emotional motivation and guidance. This is what Antonio Damasio‘s book Descartes’ Error is about.
  • Atheist Dogma.
    If you have reasons to love someone, you don't love them — Zizek

    Are you looking for the opinion of others regarding this quote, before you offer your own?
    Is another way of putting this:
    If you love someone then you must have no reasons to!
    universeness

    Well, it seemed relevant to your debate with unenlightened, and I agree with it.

    Of course, maybe you can come up with reasons if you think about it, and this doesn’t necessarily negate the love. So, sure, it might be an exaggeration…

    But only exaggeration is true. — Adorno

    What this means is that sometimes you have to exaggerate to speak the truth. It’s a way of uncovering the essence of an object by pushing against the limitations of reason. Or, it’s a way of cutting through the bullshit, directing your thought in a motivated way that has no time for trivial counterexamples. A dangerous game, but probably important to insight in general.

    But it could also be interpreted not as an exaggeration. What is it to “have reasons”? If it’s to have arrived at the love through ratiocination, or if it means that reasons are somehow constitutive of it, or are the motivation for it, then the statement is accurate. I don’t decide to love someone based on a deduction.

    So under that interpretation, giving or thinking of reasons post hoc is not what “having reasons” means.

    Neither does it mean the causes of your love. An omniscient psychologist’s discovery of the objective “reasons” that you love a person—which would mean the causes of your love—is not what is being discussed. What it’s about is having reasons of your own, as justification for your feeling.

    It’s a rich insight (though hardly an original one), so try to understand before rejecting. Be curious.
  • Atheist Dogma.
    If you have reasons to love someone, you don't love them — Zizek