This is an ad hom, you take a cheap shot rather than engage with the specific criticisms I made. — DingoJones

I don't take you seriously because you don't take either yourself or this forum seriously. I'm just joining a work in progress, trying to fit in and be one of the gang.

Mainly though she was banned just because her posts were shit. Whoops, I did it again. — Baden

Ok, you have every right to say what you wish, and as a mod do what you wish. This is not being debated.

I'm just trying to help you see what kind of message you are sending to those you are attempting to manage. You're just making your work harder by repeatedly modeling the very behavior you'd like to see less of.

If you don't give a shit about that, well, ok, you have a right to that too. Just saying, in that case don't expect users to give a shit either, which equals....

More work for you.

You notice how you've subtly made the mind or self an object by asking this question - an 'it'. The mind, the self are not an object. There is no 'it' but then neither is it correct to say there is no mind or self. That's a very subtle point but crucial to get. — Wayfarer

Yes, hopefully you will continue to expand on this. It seems a translation challenge.

Nice analysis, seems insightful, thanks.

It seems to me that the reality is that the world's largest nation is going to be a dominant player on the world stage. That said, there are threats to the stability of China which may reduce it's influence.

The Chinese Communists have accomplished a miracle in bringing historic numbers of people out of poverty. This has to be acknowledged. However, what this means is that they have dramatically raised the expectations of a dramatic number of people, and now those expectations need to be met for the regime to survive.

Convincing arguments supporting theism are lacking, therefore atheism. — Pinprick

No...

Convincing arguments supporting theism are lacking, therefore nothing.

Convincing arguments supporting atheism are lacking, therefore nothing.

The whole debate is one big pile of nothing.

Which in a way is kind of good, given that reality itself is one bit pile of what we typically call nothing.

I once heard an astrophysicist on NPR claim that in certain conditions at the quantum level it would be possible for an expanding bubble to be created with a different laws of physics. As this bubble expanded it would eat everything in it's path as our current reality couldn't function within that bubble. I have no idea how true this is, but the speaker did have appropriate qualifications to speak to such matters.

The notion that reality may contain the potential for many different sets of laws is indeed fascinating.

Do you know why I didnt call you out for claiming authority on philosophical value even though I could have used the same semantic strawmans you did? Intellectual honesty. — DingoJones

This is hilarious!!!! Thank you so much, I literally just broke out in laughter. I see a big career in stand up comedy in your future...

If the comments are insulting or snooty then that is perfectly in line with all the other threads and comments. This is the internet…people talk shit. — DingoJones

We find agreement! Yes, all the other threads contain insulting snooty comments too, often by the mods . Yes, this is the Internet. Not a philosophy forum.

You excluded your opinion from consideration when you confessed to purposely acting like a jerk and fucking around. — DingoJones

And what's even worse, is that I'm the only fucking around jerk on the forum!!! Shame, shame, controversy, food fight, M E L O D R A M A!!!!!!

No wait, sorry, I meant philosophy forum.

Russia, if my memory serves me right, advocated for dismantling Germany but the other countries didn't want that and Versailles ended up in an unhappy compromise where Germany was left severely weakened, but not destroyed. — BitconnectCarlos

Ah, thank you. I didn't know the part about Russia, that was educational.

My understanding is that in the twenties Germany was recovering from the Treaty and thus interest in radical politicians was waning, posing an existential threat to Hitler's career. What turned that around was the market crash of 1929. This is surely another topic, but in a word, we are still running the very same risk today as we continue to let high stakes game players run wild on Wall Street. We just never learn, do we?

I give up trying to understand. — BitconnectCarlos

Ah, you're finally starting to get it. The notion that any of this can understood is based on an assumption that there is a logical framework to such ideas which can be analyzed and made more clear. If there is no logical framework, if such ideas are powered by emotion and not reason, then trying to understand the ideas is a fool's errand.

Even if this is true - and there's strong reason to believe that the Versailles treaty was overly harsh and unfair — BitconnectCarlos

On the other hand, just to argue a point, if the WWI allies had invaded Germany and taken it over, then WWII would not have happened. That is, maybe there should be a harsh response to those who start horror shows like WWI?

If we apply logic to questions like these - we must ask ourselves if in the last 2000 years - everywhere jews have lived - they always slaughtered others around them? — Iris0

Ha, what an excellent question. Yes, what is the historical record? Examining that record doesn't automatically settle any controversy about the current situation in the Middle East, but it's surely relevant. It would for example be considered relevant in a court of law. Examining such an extensive record does help shine some light on intent.

As for current history in our lifetimes, we can examine Jews in the United States who are present in numbers similar to Israel. It should be clear from the evidence that Jews have never been any kind of problem in this country. Again, this speaks to intent. If the Jews were warlike people intent on theft and oppression etc, why are they not engaging in such activities anywhere else?

The only complaint I can offer in response to the post of Iris0, is that this thread is not about logic, and thus logical calculations such as Iris0 was engaged in would be..... Yes, you guessed it. Off topic.

The language barrier helped disguise the lack of philosophical value I think — DingoJones

It's interesting that you consider yourself an authority on the subject of philosophical value.

The politest thing I can say is... Fuck it, I give up. — Baden

The politest thing we could say in response to the demise of a sincere person who was doing their best is nothing.

I can agree that there is a constructive point to the mods explaining what kinds of content aren't going to make the cut here. Maybe there's a point to recording for history that a particular member has been removed. Dubious, but arguable.

Beyond that, this thread where we all say snotty things behind the backs of those who can no longer defend themselves sets a very poor example from the top.

It baffles me that the intelligent people assembled here can't see the irony of looking down our snooty noses at low quality content by others, while we create the lowest quality content thread on the forum.

It's also quite odd that the mod team itself is often one of the primary generators of low quality content.

Fuck! Don't say things I agree with, it makes me doubt them. — Kenosha Kid

:-)

Unfortunately, millions were "rescued" by being starved to death when Mao insisted on putting Marxist intellectuals with no experience or knowledge of agriculture in charge of the countryside. Same happened under Stalin and others. — Apollodorus

Agreed, it's a mixed record, on a very large scale.

and has thus rescued
a considerable part of the population from the idiocy of rural life." — Apollodorus

Well, it has to be admitted that, the Chinese communists have rescued many millions from an ancient rural life which so many willingly abandoned.

My own perspective on such things is quite rich in illusions and delusions. I live on the edge of a major university city, with ready access to the surrounding countryside. I visit nature essentially as a tourist, coming home each night to my cozy city based suburban comforts.

When I was young I built a humble hippy house way out in the woods, and some friends and I tried to make it by being peanut farmers. That didn't last very long. Jimmy Carter we ain't. :-)

One kind of property that minds have, that matter does not, is the subject of logic — Wayfarer

In another thread we were exploring a notion that phenomena like logic is just a symptom of a deeper property shared by all things. We were struggling with how to name such a deeper universal property. Intelligence? Information?

My best guess at the moment is that should such a deeper property exist, it would be so universal and pervasive as to not qualify as a separate thing, and thus any attempt to assign a noun may be misguided.

Take religion for instance. It's, however much one objects to it, been a source of solace, hope, even truths to boot. It's now losing ground to reason that promotes a more skeptical attitude — TheMadFool

Sort of. It's surely true that there are those who are skeptical of religion. But they are rarely skeptical of the "reason" they have replaced it with.

Overpopulation in urban areas is going to be a big problem everywhere as everyone wants to live in megacities where the jobs and the nightlife are. — Apollodorus

Yes, imho, the biggest under reported story of the 20th century is the urbanization of humanity. More and more people are being born in to life almost completely cut off from nature.

And, increasingly all most people know about obtaining food is how to swipe a credit card, which makes us extremely vulnerable to supply disruptions. Sweeping social chaos begins at the moment that a critical mass of people conclude they're not going to be able to replenish their food supply by legal means. And so many people in urban areas have almost no food on hand in their dwelling.

Here in Florida along the coasts they've widened the roads as much as they can. To widen further would require demolishing trillions of dollars worth of real estate. And they just keep on coming, about 1,000 people per day move to Florida, every day of the year, for decades.

Anyway, I'll soon be breaking out of here in my casket escape pod. :-)

Can a male be turned into a female? — Andrew4Handel

I recently heard on NPR that all clown fish are born male. At some point the biggest male in a group turns in to a female, because the biggest female can hold the most eggs.

Given that most of us here are clowns, I think we have a good chance of making this work. I wanna be Jennifer Anniston, would that be OK?

If you put North America and South America together, you get pretty close. It may not be a nice thought but what else do you suggest? — Apollodorus

Dying before that happens. :-)

I have a bit of a warped view on this, as I live in Florida, where the population has grown 7X during my lifetime. The population of the United States has doubled in my lifetime. More people = more problems. I'm a woods hermit, it just ain't for me.

We've been watching old reruns of NYPD Blue on TV recently. Takes place in New York City of course. I'm continually amazed that some people choose to spend their entire lives there. Definitely a "to each their own situation".

but the point is. it seems to me, now i have be careful who i speak with. — skyblack

Well, maybe. It's up to you of course. If I could suggest, consider the worst that could happen. If you can make peace with that, then there's nothing much to be worried about. Smile and be happy. :-)

He does this rather regularly which is why I've started ignoring him. You should do the same. — Benkei

You don't seem to be doing a very good job of ignoring me. :-)

None of us are interested — Hanover

Right. None of us are interested. We're in agreement. There is no melodrama here folks. Time to move along.

We're now all in agreement that none of us are interested.

You've nothing? — Banno

If I were to start such a thread....

This is what you'd do with it.

Just start a new thread. — Banno

That's ok. You start it. :-)

Mods note: is almost an exact duplicate of this thread — Wayfarer

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery? :-) No complaints from here.

SO you're studying necromancy; raising threads from the dead. — Banno

They're dead when they've been closed by the mods.

Or is it that theists need to believe folk are unthinkingly avoiding theism, because the alternative - that they are giving the issue of god due consideration and then rejecting it - is too unpalatable for them? — Banno

Generally speaking, folks of all flavors are avoiding thinking about any of this to any serious degree, because that is the nature of most folks. To the degree folks of all flavors do think about it, what typically happens is they travel a little ways down the investigation trail, and then stop and build a fort.

Please explain what would be logical, constructive or useful about providing an alternative to the God debate to those who feel no need for one. It seems wiser to just let sleeping dogs lie.

The "delusion" of Atheism is that it has found a plausible answer to the "hard" questions of "God, the Universe, and Everything". — Gnomon

Agreed. And a plausible method of asking meaningful questions on questions of such enormous scale. Proof please. Never provided.

Another angle is that all sides seem to assume, typically without questioning, that finding an answer would be desirable. So let's just go ahead and kill all the mystery of the universe, eh?

I would normally consider myself an atheist, however recently I’ve wondered whether some sort of theistic claims are actually reasonable. — Franz Liszt

My impression is that theism in general may be attempting to describe something that is real, in an out of date cultural language which can no longer connect with many moderns.

A key problem may be that most theists, like most humans, aren't really that engaged in thinking things through for themselves. They also may not be pursuing their own experience with much energy. And so, like most humans everywhere, they are content to drift along in whatever group consensus they find themselves.

In this environment the old religious stories which have been around for thousands of years take on a mantle of authority, simply due to their age if nothing else. And then modern atheists come along and rebel against the old stories, because they really aren't that well suited to the modern world.

But underneath all this cultural confusion and conflict there may be a germ of truth which is worth considering. It's possible that something along the lines of what we call intelligence may be embedded in the material world much the same way the laws of physics are. As example, bacteria perform data management operations that we would label intelligent if we were doing them.

The title of the thread is.....

Israel killing Civilians in Gaza and the West Bank

I wonder if there would be some credible way to calculate how many Palestinians have been killed by Israel since 1948. I have no idea, and also have no idea who might be considered a credible source on the topic.

One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest

Jiddu Krishnamurti

but mostly....

San Felasco State Park - that is, the real world.

Yeah, not interested anymore. — Hanover

Ok, cool, thanks for your clear answer.

I am interested to really know... who is God - the logically refuted one by atheists — Iris0

I apologize, but I won't be able to answer the "who is God" question. Would if I could, but I am not myself a god, so...

I asked what you proposed, not for an exploration of satisfaction levels. — Hanover

The price tag for hearing what I would propose is to answer the question, which readers are free to do or not as they wish, with my blessings in any case.

I do not understand your suggestion — Iris0

Not a suggestion. A question. Do readers find the theist vs. atheist debate in general to be an adequately satisfying investigation of such issues?