Or if you are by yourself, you might come back tomorrow and puzzle as to if the smell has changed.
. — Banno
Glad to know another user who uses Celsius like me!
When I read posts with Fahrenheit references... hmm... it is very obnoxious to me. — javi2541997
There is a "blind spot" in each local visual field where the optic nerve enters the eye. — Agree-to-Disagree
So this is something you learned to do? You learned not to see the cow, but to see the colour, shade, shape and so on? — Banno
At least some times we are incline to say we see the same cow... — Banno
Is it clearer, better, to say that you see the cow, or that you see the model or image or representation of the cow that your neural network constructs? — Banno
By way of argument in favour of the former, we sometimes might claim that you and I are to be said to be looking at the very same cow. It seems difficult to say this if what you see is the product of your neural net, and what I see is the product of my neural net. You see the product of your neural net, I see the product of my neural net, and hence we do not see the same cow. — Banno
That is, saying that what you see is the model or image or representation of the cow, and not the cow, makes other things we commonly do, oddly complicated. — Banno
Does that make sense to you? You experience the cow by your neural nets building some sort of model or image or representation of the cow. Add to that the smell, the feel of the hide, and so on. — Banno
I don't understand why this seems so difficult to comprehend. — Banno
Well, where are those representations? If you are interacting with them, then presumably they can be distinguished from you... hence you see them, and we havn't an explanation of what seeing consist in at all. — Banno
You are not separate from that model, in such a way that the model could be said to be what you interact with. The model is you interacting with the room. — Banno
But doesn't it strike you as odd that the "mental image" is not part of the mind doing the observation? — Banno
I would not take Aristotle as an idealist. Direct realism has trees and cups and stuff that we see. Indirect realism falls short of that, since we never see the tree or cup or whatever. — Banno
You are not seperate from that model, in such a way that the model could be said to be what you interact with. The model is you interacting with the room. — Banno
Aristotle was the first to provide a description of direct realism. In On the Soul he describes how a see-er is informed of the object itself by way of the hylomorphic form carried over the intervening material continuum with which the eye is impressed. — here
That explains it. Goddamn it. — Lionino
Mmm... You don't have "access" to a percept. A percept is identical with either the whole, or a part of, the conceptual-perceptual state of an organism at a given time. That's a numerical/definitional identity, rather than an equivalence. Like the percept is not what perception or experience is of, the percept is an instance of perception. The taste percept of my coffee is the same as how I taste it.
The distinction there is between saying that a percept is an instance of perception vs saying that a percept is what perception acts upon. — fdrake
We have access to percepts. And we have access to the world. — Moliere
Perhaps, yes. Both direct and indirect realists are realists rather than subjective idealists because they believe that the existence and regularity and predictability of experience is best explained by the existence of a distal world which behaves according to regular and predictable laws. — Michael
What is the source of the direct realist's confidence that the dot is caused by some unobservable entity? — Michael
The indirect realist claims to directly perceive the mental phenomenon as caused by the dot on the screen as caused by the unobservable entity. — Michael
If the direct realist can believe in the existence of unobservable entities like electrons and the Big Bang and in the veracity of a Geiger counter then the indirect realist can believe in the existence of unobservable entities like electrons and the Big Bang and in the veracity of a Geiger counter. — Michael
I don't quite get what you're saying. Flat earthers assume that the Earth is flat, do experiments, and determine that the earth is not flat. It's not a paradox; it's just that the experiments have proven them wrong. — Michael
One salient feature of hallucinatory and dream states is that when we experience them, our abilities to notice their anomalous nature is diminished or suppressed. — Pierre-Normand
The first sentence is a paradox, isn't it?
— frank
I wouldn't say so. That scientific realism entails indirect realism is contingent on a posteriori facts, not a priori truths. — Michael
Well, for instance, it's hard to see how disjunctivism could be indirect. That a veridical viewing of, say, a tree, could be an instance of viewing a mental image of the tree, while an hallucination was not.. — Banno
Firstly, if direct realism is true then scientific realism is true, and if scientific realism is true then direct realism is false. Therefore direct realism is false. — Michael
:up:
— Michael
If that is what they modern DRist is trying to do — AmadeusD
Indirect realism is the prevailing view of our time.
— frank
The most accepted vies is representationalism, which is neither direct nor indirect. — Banno
since it is understood that we perceive by constructing a representation, which is better described as neither direct nor indirect. — Banno
Sure. That does nothing for the competing theories. Hence, certain levels of "wtf bro". — AmadeusD
Would you choose to be uploaded if it became available tomorrow? — Truth Seeker
As far as I know, our consciousness, personality and memories are substrate dependent i.e. they need the living brain. — Truth Seeker
So, is the self an entity the way a soul is an entity that can be resurrected or reincarnated? — Truth Seeker
I think the idea that one must start with "atomic" concepts isn't wholly inconsistent with the sort of holism Wittgenstein advocated — Pierre-Normand
ecently, I stumbled upon a paper titled "Alignment of brain embeddings and artificial contextual embeddings in natural language points to common geometric patterns" (published last month in Nature Communications) and I asked Claude 3 Opus to help me understand it. I was puzzled by the fact the the researchers had chosen to look into Broca's area rather than into Wernicke's area in order to find semantically significant neural correlates of linguistic representations. Claude 3 informed me that:
"Historically, the Wernicke-Geschwind model of language processing has been influential, positing a division of labor between Broca's area (in the IFG) for speech production and Wernicke's area (in the superior temporal gyrus) for speech comprehension. However, more recent research has challenged this strict dichotomy, suggesting a more distributed and integrated network for language processing in the brain. — Pierre-Normand
I don't think that it's science's job to either establish or disconfirm this thesis. I think the mind/body problem, the so-called hard-problem of consciousness and radical skepticism stem from distinctive philosophical outlooks regarding the disconnect between the "manifest image" and the "scientific image" that Wilfrid Sellars identified as "idealizations of distinct conceptual frameworks in terms of which humans conceive of the world and their place in it." On my view, it's entirely a philosophical problem although neuroscience and psychology do present cases that are illustrative of (and sometimes affected by) the competing philosophical theses being discussed in this thread. — Pierre-Normand