I'm gonna brush my teeth lll!

How could the universe have existed without gods? How can dead particles, conforming to physical laws, have brought themselves into existence? Aren't they to dumb for that?

How does religion inform math? — Tom Storm

If gods made love and hate particles which had to behave in a very precise mathematical way, to make both and collections of them function properly, religion might inform us.

You sound like the atheists who continue to request for proof, after making a claim that god does not exist. — L'éléphant

That's it! There is no scientific evidence of what goes on inside of matter. Science can describe the outside but not the inside.

Well, isn't that because atheism isn't a philosophical system? Apart from the positive dogmatists, isn't atheism simply the view that there is no good reason to accept the proposition that god/s exist. — Tom Storm

What about the reason that there exists a universe?

Because showing to be awake stands on the same level as showing to have dreamt. You simply can't proof the both.

consider you a joy to exchange views with! — universeness

Don't take Mello seriously, my friend! We both know better!

Consider me a psychopantheist, universeness.

Do you think only humans experience and dispense love as we define the various manifestations of it? — universeness

Absolutely not. Even elementary particles. The gods had a reason creating them. That gives love meaning. Await the final word to be told my fellow Earthling! :wink:

A philosopher should pay their philosophy dues. — T Clark

Now that's a truly philosophical statement!

Most posters here are Internet trolls who Google their asses off to plagiarize and sound intelligent. — Joe Mello

Seems you are one of them...

Love would mean nothing without gods having created it. They had good reason reason for creating it. I will explain this in an upcoming short story. They didn't take something into account. And they could had known...

This thread is quite hot! 14 pages in 4 days. Seems atheists have a lot to talk about for non-existent gods!

nothing is nothing, which without anything to parse means nothing — Shwah

There you go!

Yeah science can't dictate those and atheism literally has no ontology or epistemology to speak of. — Shwah

By the very fact an atheist denies gods he accepts their existence. He only wants proof they exist.

Today, this "unmoved mover" can be explained in more scientific terms, without the need to address what brought space and time into existence. — RussellA

I think virtual particles on a central singularity are the first unmoved mover, in the scientific sense. They don't move unidirectional in time and resemble the eternal circular motion, which has no direction in time too. They fluctuate up and down in time to be kicked forward and realized by a surrounding giving a sign. When inflated into real, their evolution backfired to the singularity, the virtual source, to bring on a new inflation. But where did this infinite cycle come from?

There's no way to get to an "atheist" position ontologically or epistemologically — Shwah

Unless you declare the ontology and epistemology of theism empty. But indeed, from the scientific òntology and epistemology alone you can't deduce the non-existence of gods.

An egotheist, then — baker

Haha! A selfish theist? Or a theist thinking he's a god himself? Only gods give meaning to life. That's the reason for believing in them. And the fact that science can't explain the presence of the universe. The laws of nature and the basic stuff in it is too stupid to cause its own existence.

A good build-up EugeneW, be careful you don't over-reach. — universeness

Just an episode, universeness, just an episode... Or maybe, the final chapter...(don't get me wrong though)

In summary, in both cases, it is not necessary to consider a mysterious entity outside the known universe, in that the "mover" can be explained as a physical state of affairs within current time and space. — RussellA

But what brought space and time into being?

like a quote from a song by crowded house. 'god is just jealous because the devil looks so cool in red.' — universeness

Devils are not involved in the tale of creation... The situation, once known, is a mundane one. An understandable one. I think the gods are glad me telling the revelation. They had trouble reaching their creation. But they found a loophole... The dream.

am much more afraid of what my fellow humans might put me through than I am of gods. — universeness

You're close to the truth, soon to be revealed on this forum! The world of philosophy, religion, and physics will shake in its foundations...

He was discussing 'time reversal' based on a question he had been asked — universeness

The fact time goes forward is proof of the benevolence of the gods. And at the same time of their laziness. Time goes backwards only for virtual particles. The vacuum contains an eternal fluctuating in time, the fluctuation time being the Planck time. And just like there is an asymmetry between two opposite directions in space (in the light of wrongly assumed basic weak interactions), there is an asymmetry in time (in the same light). In the mirror universe the asymmetries hold too. Between anti quarks and anti-leptons. But because these contain the same preons as the quarks and leptons in our universe, the asymmetry is due to an asymmetry in space itself.

@universeness

Don't tell me you don't fear them cause they don't exist! :wink:

Atheism is not a belief but a being against. Against god-beings they probably fear ( :wink: @universeness). While in fact there is absolutely nothing to fear! Well, maybe one particular kind of them. I will reveal the truth about this later. A dream I had last night convinced me. And it's a very comforting truth. To a broad extent...

A good cyclist does not need a high road. — Sherlock Holmes

Why didn't we evolve into wheel-rolling creatures?

I'm trying something. — Agent Smith

Good try! Will time still exist if we ban all clocky things, including mind clocks and hyperclocking? :chin:

What about sound? Do we all hear the same sound? No. Likewise for vision. To see pure color is hard. You can't isolate seeing blue. It's embedded in a larger whole from which it can't be extracted. We can both look at a blue screen but if you grew up in a blue hating family and country, your perception of blue will be very different from mine, being born in a blue loving habitat. Regardless if your blue is my red.

But still. Time can't be stopped and space can't be cut. How can spacetime intervals exist?

_/""\《■》/""\_???

I just feel it's the least worst option. Could be way off the mark though. — Agent Smith

Can it really cause pain? Can those eternally dripping water drops cause pain? I know itch without scratch can be terrible, though it not really hurts.

Haha! You read it too?

If atheists don't believe in god/s, and atheism relates to theism, then what possibly would an atheist talk about? What would be discussed at an atheists convention (should it exist) if not god/s, something atheists claim to not believe in. — Gregory A

If atheism were valid (which it obviously isn't) wouldn't they still have non-valid theism to talk about?

And why should one proof dreams?

Even my left and right eye see different colors red sometimes. Your perception of a color might be very different. We can both call something red but still see different colors.

If you see what I call "yellow" as grey — GLEN willows

But what do you call yellow? If I'm colorblind, everything looks grey, like on a B&W photograph.

What is your reason for asking? — L'éléphant

You might say you are awake but what if I say that I don't believe you? The fact that you say it is no proof. How can I know you are awake like me?

Atheism is not to be aware of ethics afterall. — Gregory A

Why is that?

This is about requiring someone to product proof of his or her belief in god. — L'éléphant

The existence of the universe is proof of gods.

Why would you ask that? — L'éléphant

Because you can't show that either.

If you hear people talking in their sleep you have proof of the dreaming. Likewise for animals. You might even put me under a brain-scanning machine. Then you could see if I dream when asleep. What proof do you need more? Are you a solipsist?
— EugeneW
That's not proof.
No, I'm not a solipsist. — L'éléphant

Do you have proof you are awake? You mean that you can never proof pain?

We are more like a digital TV with its built-in 'studio'. — Gregory A

Are you saying we our a medium?