McFaul is an avowed Russia-hater who has been banned from Russia and is a close friend of Zelensky's whom he hosted at Stanford. So his unfounded opinion--his own arguments are not support for his own thesis--doesn't carry much weight. It is a fact that NATO expanded way beyond Germany when they promised Russia they wouldn't, Zelensky announced his intention for Ukraine to join NATO, and America refused to take Ukraine's joining off the table. Russia and Putin had great reason to feel threatened; the US certainly would if Russia put loads of weapons into Mexico pointed at the US

McFaul also recently and famously said lying is part of diplomacy, so his credibility and veracity are not high level

. And yes, since those groups you mention provide no evidence, they are just pushing propaganda...
— Lambert Strether
UN and Amnesty International?


Yes, the UN has already admitted to lying about Russia supposedly taking Viagra to rape Ukrainian women and Amnesty said nothing about genocide and has proven to be biased against Russia this whole war....although they have been highly critical of Zelensky's regime and the Azov Nazis in the past

And since we each clearly consider each other to be trolls, we should not continue discussing any further. I certainly won't read any more of your posts

And the endless obfuscation and lies in defense of a murderous dictatorship has been those made for Zelensky and his--and the previous Poroshenko--regime, which has murdered Russian Ukrainians of the Donbass through shellings and torture-murders by its Azov Nazi battalion, not to mention its outlawing the Russian Orthodox church, all opposing political parties, and executions of prisoners of war

Sorry, Jorndoe, but that was an unhinged rant misrepresenting and/or snipping my points while making ridiculous and unfounded claims against them

I won't be reading or responding to your nonsense any further

Be well

"I agree, in principle with Lamberts recent typing's in this thread BUT we are not separable from the universe, we are OF the universe, so there is a 'frame of reference,' within which the universe does care. We are that frame of reference. WE CARE and we are part of it!"


I never said we weren't part of it. I correctly said we are only a part of it and an infinitesimal part of it with barely a trillionth of a speck of influence on it

↪Lambert Strether, ye olde Nazi thing has been discussed already, keep up, e.g. comments 765405, 765255, 757789, ...


I just joined the forum, so I can hardly keep up with what has been discussed before me. You, however, are clearly unable to counter what I said about Ukraine's cultural Nazi problem and Nazi problem in its military

Either way, have a happy New Year :grin:

"Any Ukrainian children that has been taken to Russia, shipped off by/to someone they don't know, will have to be documented in sufficient detail and publicly, especially so that remaining family/guardians can find them. So far, Russian kidnapp...err authorities haven't provided much. Some Ukrainian parents/families have nonetheless managed to find their children — already documented in posted reports — examples."


You have no idea Russia hasn't done these things. They're in a war, remember...neither country is freely exchanging information....and your own "evidence" supports the fact these children aren't being genocided. Kidnapping, indeed :roll:


"Support yes (a fair amount at that), deductive proof no (if that's what you're looking for). If you just dismiss what's been reported with a casual handwave, then you haven't contributed anything here, which might be why some have used the t word."


Sorry, but unfounded stories and anecdotes---even a fair amount--are neither support nor deductive proof. So, I dismissed nothing as nothing supportive was provided. You're the one dismissing that fact with a casual handwave so the t word better applies to you and your friends

You haven't provided support for any of your statements

"Whatever verification you ask for from the Ukrainians should be required of the Russians whose account you refer to as factual. Your rhetorical question is a nice bit of agitprop.""


Wrong. The accuser is required to support the claim, not the accuser. Using your bad logic, if someone accused you of being a murderer, you would be required to prove you are not or go to jail. So, the nice bit of agitprop is all yours

"LOL at "my very accurate denials". Not going to waste my time arguing with another freak, but here are a couple more links for general reference:"


Uh-oh, someone's getting upset....and I am certainly not the "freak" in this discussion. None of those passages you provided showed any proof of any kidnapping or genocidal activity, and Human Rights Watch has close ties to the American defense industry

Nice try

"Hilarious. First, you haven't said anything to show in your 8 remarks on this Forum, and one day being here.

If there's no evidence, then according to you, out of thin air Canada sanctions "Maria Lvova-Belova, Russia’s children’s rights commissioner, who has been accused by Ukraine of organizing the removal of children from the Luhansk and Donetsk regions".

Or since you think there's no evidence, how about the UN coming to the following conclusion months ago"


LOL, what is hilarious is your thinking I haven't said anything to show when that actually describes you. And sanctions and conclusions aren't proof of Russian malfeasance, just proof of Canadian and Ukrainian bias and opinion against Russia....all without support. And yes, since those groups you mention provide no evidence, they are just pushing propaganda....like others false claims Russia blew up the Nordstream or Ukraine's Azov batallions aren't Nazis

So, the only classic trolling has been yours

The Russians are not required to disprove an accusation, particularly one without evidence

[reply="Paine; The Ukrainians' accounts do not count as any kind of evidence for you. What sort of verification of their experience would be meaningful for you?

While you acknowledge that the Russians have not provided any evidence for their account, you take it as the narrative to be proved otherwise. The Russians do admit that they adopt these children without proof of their origins.767384"]

No, accounts alone are not evidence; they need factual support which these accounts do not have. That's the verification that is needed. And I don't take any account without evidence. If someone claims Zelensky is a mass murderer, apparently you feel the denial of that claim needs as much evidence as the claim itself...it doesn't

And adopting orphans isn't kidnapping or genocide, particularly when they come from the Russian-ethnic Donbass. Sorry. Do you want those orphans to go without families?

Sorry, SSU, but the only absurd denials here are your denials of my very accurate denials...and I did go through all of them piece by piece and correctly said none of @jorndoe's claims were backed up by evidence

And there is no evidence of any genocidal actions and you haven't shown any evidence showing my saying so is wrong

And I never said Tass was the only truthful media...that's an absurd claim

No, not all definitions define progress as "simply going forward," and even if they did, the Universe would have no care about earthling(s) definition of it nor would it adhere to that definition or the definition of "forward"...particularly since it shows many more signs of entropy, not development (even if that use of forward was the one)

Sure it does since the concept of "progress", which isn't even consensually agreed upon among humans, is just a constructed concept from an infinitesimal speck with it

Not only that, but physicists have well established that entropy is the nature of the universe, which even goes against a nonconsensual human theory of progress...or even a popular one

Sorry, but if there was actual proof of Russia kidnapping kids, then there would be evidence from the Ukraine side and there isnt'. Without it, it makes no sense to make baseless accusations of kidnapping, much less genocide. As I said, Russia and the Donbass have admitted to moving orphans from places currently--and in the past--being shelled by Donbass; that is neither kidnapping nor genocide and is a good thing


In any case, Neither Maria Lvova-Bulova's biased claims or the others you report are backed up with any evidence at all. So, please point to sources beyond those biased, un-supported claims...even biased ones supported with evidence...as you haven't so far. It will make it more interesting

Justification is predicated on a premise supposedly outside judgment...otherwise it's not justification but rhetoric

Progress is a subjective human concept of which the universe pays no heed

No sources have proven Russia has kidnapped Ukrainian children or committed a genocidal crime in doing so. Shouldn't you provide the sources proving that

Russia has moved Russian-Ukrainian orphans out of the Donbass territories Ukraine has shelled and to the safety of Russia. But that is neither kidnapping nor genocide