Surely, sharing would work everywhere?
— Truth Seeker

No. — Tom Storm

Please explain why sharing wouldn't work everywhere in the universe.

I like that but I think money is natural and we should just reform the system. — Barkon

Humans didn't always have money. Please see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_money Humans have been around 200,000 years and money has been around only 30,000 years. I think we can do without it if we have transparency and accountability so that people don't hoard more than their fair share of resources.

Effective solutions tend to be culturally specific and co-designed by the people effected. What works in the USA would probably not work in Finland, say. — Tom Storm

Surely, sharing would work everywhere?

Thank you for your reply. I support free education. In fact, I support free everything. Let's ban money and let's ban private ownership. Let's have collective equal ownership of everything. The whole world should be one egalitarian and democratic country where religions are separate from the global government. Everyone should receive according to their needs and contribute according to their abilities.

To stay on topic you might pick a moment in history when animals were slaughtered and rewrite that history, telling us how the world would be better if our past had been better. We can do a lot with a discussion like that. :grin: — Athena

We have indeed veered off-topic. So, I have created this new thread: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/15216/how-can-we-reduce-suffering-inequality-injustice-and-death

I agree. We as a species spend much more on weapons than we do on charities.

Not convinced. Time doesn't exist on its own. It exists as spacetime.

If we are so good at saving people from famine and war why have so many people died from famines and wars? Please see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_by_death_toll

Here are the billionaires who give away the most money, according to Forbes
Warren Buffett. Warren Buffett has a lifetime giving of $56.7 billion. ...
Bill Gates and Melinda French Gates. ...
George Soros. ...
Michael Bloomberg. ...
MacKenzie Scott. ...
Jim and Marilyn Simons. ...
Mark Zuckerberg and Priscilla Chan. ...
Steve and Connie Ballmer.

We are biologically programmed to care about others. That comes with being a social animal. — Athena

Have you looked at https://inequality.org/facts/wealth-inequality ? I know that some billionaires are generous but most are not. If they were so generous from the beginning they wouldn't get to be billionaires in the first place.

The other problems of suffering. inequality and injustice, are a matter of technology and education. — Athena

Did you look at https://www.anonymousforthevoiceless.org/kill-counter and https://inequality.org/facts/global-inequality ? We slaughter more sentient organisms than ever before. Global inequality keeps growing. The rich get richer and the poor die out.

How is it negative?

if I asked you 'how long did it take you to make this post', you would then express a relation to time, '10 seconds', from your own perspective of its negativity. — Barkon

I agree that I can measure how much time it takes to do something but how is that negative? 10 seconds is just an amount of time.

Those who have, do not want to share with those who do not have. So sad.

The only thing we do with time is relate to it. — Barkon

I have never related to time. In what way do you relate to time?

Time is definitely negative, and there is a relationship between the negative and the positive. — Barkon

I don't understand what you mean. Please explain how time is negative.

That's so interesting. Thank you for sharing your insights about time. According to physicists, time is not on its own, it exists as spacetime.

Yes, the Replicators in Star Trek can make almost everything. Sadly, it's fiction. We don't have an implementable solution to the problems of suffering, inequality, injustice, and death.

That's wise. Thank you for sharing.

Heck, many wives can't even get their husbands to help with housework and child care. I do not see egalitarianism coming any time soon. Also, I work a lot and I don't others willing to do that. I don't think a free ride brings out the best in people. A better society means every child is well cared for and has the advantages that enable him/her to be the best s/he can be. I am willing to focus on that, but that is not making people equal. — Athena

I see your point. In that case, how do we solve the problems of suffering, inequality, injustice, and death?

I agree that "Star Trek: The Next Generation" is a work of fiction but it still shows a society free from money. The food, the drinks, the clothing, the equipments are synthesised by the replicators on the starships, space stations, homes and offices on planets and moons. I know we don't have such technology yet. 3D printers are the closest we have reached to replicators.

Don't you feel horrified and upset about all the suffering, inequality, injustice, and death in the world? 99.9% of all the species to evolve so far on Earth are already extinct. Surely, an egalitarian system would be far better than what we had in the past and what we currently have?

Why does anyone do anything? How do individuals gain the ability to do anything? What values do they learn and how do they learn them? What motivates them to do anything? — Athena

We do because we care about every sentient organism. How would you like it if you were boiled alive the way lobsters are boiled alive by non-vegans or are slaughtered like cows, chickens, ducks and pigs? Our empathy and compassion motivate us to live in a better way that minimises suffering, inequality, injustice, and death. Just look at the current statistics on inequality: https://inequality.org/facts/global-inequality We shouldn't keep the capitalist system that has produced such inequality and injustice. Did you know that companies have used and continue to use planned obsolescence in their products? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence This is what you get with the profit motive. This is why we need to remove the profit motive by changing the ownership of everything to everyone equally and banning money.

We could teach children at school about empathy and compassion and how to share what we have instead of cut-throat competition, cruelty and murder. In this egalitarian system, everyone would contribute according to their abilities and receive according to their needs. Children would develop skills based on their interests and aptitudes at schools that reward empathy and cooperation instead of competition, exploitation and backstabbing. They should be taught core values such as "Live and help live, live and love. Help all, harm none. One for all and all for one."

Have you watched "Star Trek: The Next Generation"? They don't have any money. Humans didn't have any money when we were hunter-gatherers. There are still tribes in remote parts of the world where they live without any money. Look at the world and its history. It's full of suffering, inequality, injustice, and death. The system I proposed will minimise suffering, inequality, injustice, and death. We will share everything instead of the divisive system we now have. Look what non-vegans do to sentient animals every second: https://www.anonymousforthevoiceless.org/kill-counter If we all live by this motto: "One for all and all for one." we would be better off as a collective.

It should be democratic and there should be a separation between the government and religions. Policies should promote environmental sustainability, the elimination of pollution and promote the equal rights of all sentient beings. Everyone should receive according to their needs and contribute according to their abilities. Everyone should have equal social status from conception to death. We should all be vegans. Everyone should have equal standards of living. Money should be banned. All means of production should be owned by everyone equally.

You could create a local branch of the Humanist International in your location.

I think, I would like to devote myself to bringing Jerusalem under international control and an international historic site. And how about moving on to creating Athens as an international historic site, and what other places should be added to the international historic sites? — Athena

I think the whole world should be one egalitarian country.

Thank you for clarifying.

That's great. You probably have a local humanist organisation depending on which country you live in. Try Googling for it.

I am experiencing the present continuously. As are all living things. None of us can time travel to the past or the distant future. We are all moving forward at 1 second per second. If we can't visit the past or the future the way we can visit another city or country, then how do we know that the past and the future exist?

How about https://humanists.international ?

I agree that many of the stories in the Bible are plagiarised. All religions were made up by people.

I am so sorry they deleted your entire discussion. That must be so annoying. The first discussion I posted in this forum was also deleted. I don't know if that was deliberate or if that was a glitch. In either case, I have 10 discussions on this forum currently if you want to check out the other 9. We get attached to our egos and beliefs. It takes detachment to investigate all possibilities.

I understand. Thank you.

If the past still exists, why can't we visit it and change it?
— Truth Seeker
We do it all the time – the "visits and changes" are our memories. — 180 Proof

I am not talking about our memories. I am talking about physically visiting another point in the past and changing events e.g. going back in time and preventing the murder of John Lennon. Can we do that? If so, how do we do that?

How do I visit last year?
You're already there. — noAxioms

I am in the present continuously, not in the past. I am living the 12th of May 2024 today, not some day in 2023. What you said doesn't make any sense to me.

Black holes don't exist except in eternalism and moving spotlight, and the latter is kind of a solipsistic view. — noAxioms

I have seen photos of black holes online - doesn't that prove they exist? Why would they only exist in eternalism and moving spotlight? I don't understand. Please explain. Thank you.

You can visit it. If you look at last year, you'll find yourself there. — noAxioms

How do I visit last year?

Growing Block Universe: This theory is similar to the block universe theory but adds the idea that time is "growing" or expanding as new events come into existence. The past and present exist, but the future does not yet exist.
— Truth Seeker
This interpretation seems to me both the most evidence-based and consistent with human experience. — 180 Proof

I agree with you. If the past still exists, why can't we visit it and change it?

I thought Moving Spotlight was the same as Block Time Theory. Sorry, I have not presented them well. I did the best I could. Reality gives me a headache. I don't understand so many things. Apparently, Einstein subscribed to Eternalism/Block Universe Theory. Why did he do that? Here is a link on Eternalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternalism_(philosophy_of_time)

Thank you for your reply. There is no reasonable ground for things like solipsism, simulationism and illusionism even though these are ideas we can contemplate.

I am not taking seriously at all the scenes you paint. It is more than obvious that it is fictional. But the reasons you are giving for creating them should be taken seriously. I have found that, usually, the wilder the fantasy the more serious the cause. — Sir2u

Glad to hear it. The reason for my fantasy is that the world is full of suffering, inequality, injustice, and death. Inequality, injustice, and death have been around ever since life evolved on Earth 3.7 billion years ago. Suffering was added when sentient life evolved.

Personally, if I were to invent a universe because I did not like the one I was in, I would invent one that had solutions to the problems that were workable instead of making one where it is impossible for them to exist. — Sir2u

It sounds like you prefer hard science fiction to soft science fiction. I prefer soft science fiction because it is limitless.

Things cannot be sooooo bad then, if you can find enjoyment in the little things. :wink: — Sir2u

My chronic pains (neuralgia and joint pains) are always there. My sciatica pain is intermittent. I get flashbacks most days, intrusive thoughts many times a day, and nightmares every time I sleep. My mood fluctuates frequently. I am depressed many more times than I am manic. Here is a mood scale I use to monitor myself:

+5: Total loss of judgement, exorbitant spending, religious delusions or hallucinations.
+4: Lost touch with reality, incoherent, no sleep, paranoid and vindictive, reckless behaviour.
+3: Inflated self-esteem, rapid thoughts and speech, counter-productive simultaneous tasks.
+2: Very productive, everything to excess, charming and talkative.
+1: Self-esteem good, optimistic, sociable and articulate, good decisions and get work done.
0: Mood in balance, no symptoms of depression or mania.
-1: Slight withdrawal from social situations, concentration less than usual, slight agitation.
-2: Feeling of panic and anxiety, concentration difficult and memory poor, some comfort in routine.
-3: Slow thinking, no appetite, need to be alone, sleep excessive or difficult, everything a struggle.
-4: Feeling of hopelessness and guilt, thoughts of suicide, little movement, impossible to do anything.
-5: Endless suicidal thoughts, no way out, no movement, everything is bleak and it will always be like this.

Right now I am at -1 but it will change. I was at -3 two days ago. I am on a mood roller coaster I can't get off. Words don't do Bipolar Disorder justice. Reading about what it is like is very different from experiencing it for many years. Things could be infinitely worse or infinitely better. I am most grateful that it is not infinitely worse.

I did not give this information as a way to get sympathy or brag, but as an example that you are not alone in your suffering. I could go on about other problems I have, but I won't because I still consider myself to be a very lucky person compared to many others I know. I presume your motives for listing your woes were for similar purposes. — Sir2u

I understand your motive. Thank you for sharing your experiences. I listed my experiences because, in your first reply to me, you said: "I have no idea about your life nor what you are suffering from, but I am willing to bet that I know people with even worse luck in the lottery of life." I asked you in my first reply to you: "How would you calculate who has worse luck?" I think you must not have noticed this question as you haven't answered it yet. I have had my share of both good and bad luck. Our lives have both positives and negatives. So far in my life, I have experienced more negatives than positives.

Thank you for answering my last two questions from my first reply to you. All-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful beings don't actually exist and will never actually exist. I am merely imagining such beings for fun. You are taking it far too seriously. This is a fictional scenario.

Because I don't think that your small picture of the world is adequate to work on as we do not know the rest of the universe and there might be millions of the creatures you describe out there already, my ideal universe is a place where nature and her laws do what they are there to do.
If it takes millions or billions of years for nature to develop worlds that can be populated with the beings you so desire then millions or billions of years will have to pass. But it is doubtful that it will ever happen.
To create the beings you want, you would have to start with a fully formed universe that is the perfect place for them to live. Is a static universe even possible? It would have to be, or they would be forced to fight with the laws of nature and physics. It would be impossible for them to live on a world with anything but a perfect climate. Or would their all-powerfulness make it possible for them to sustain the lives of stars indefinitely? — Sir2u

I accept your ideal universe. Do you accept my ideal reality which consists of an infinite number of all-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful beings who each own an omniverse containing an infinite number of universes? To create these beings all I need to do is imagine them. We are talking about a fictional scenario. In my universes, I can make whatever I imagine as soon as I imagine them. This includes imaginary laws of physics and stars that burn forever.

I am pretty sure that if you ask most artists about the satisfaction they get from their drawings, musical instruments, poems and stories, they will say that it is from the creative part of the process that leads to the final attaining of the ability to do something well. All-knowing beings would miss out on that. — Sir2u

I agree with you partially. All-knowing beings would miss out on the learning process, but they won't miss out on the enjoyment the acts of drawing, writing and playing musical instruments bring.

The other part of their satisfaction comes from the acceptance and happiness brought about in others reception/perception of their art, in a place where everyone can do just as good as you that would also not happen. — Sir2u

Just because someone else can do something as well as you can it does not mean that they can't enjoy your work and you can't enjoy creating and performing. I do improvised comedy with other people who are equally good at it. We enjoy each other's performances. The same goes for all-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful creators and performers.

They would not even be able to paint the changing of the seasons or design clothes for each of them. I would not wish an eternity of that on my worst enemies. — Sir2u

Yes, they would be able to paint the changing of the seasons and design clothes for each of them. They are all-knowing and all-powerful. Such tasks would pose no difficulty for them. In fact, no task would pose any difficulty for them - that's what makes it so great! Unlike you, I would love to be one of an infinite number of all-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful beings who each own an omniverse containing an infinite number of universes. It's my idea of heaven!

You and I have very different ideas and that's totally fine. We are all products of our genes, environments, nutrients and experiences so it makes sense that we have very different ideas. I didn't ask you or anyone else to agree with me about anything. This thread is called "Changing the past in our imagination" because I posted it as an exercise for our imagination. It's supposed to be a fun thread where everyone can imagine whatever they want!

I agree.

What right do you think you have to do this? Whether you believe in a godly creation or in evolution, suffering is a part of life. — Sir2u

I am so sorry for all your suffering and loss. Two of my friends with Bipolar Disorder took their own lives as the illness is so hard to live with. Many of my relatives have died from illnesses and accidents. This is not a competition on who has suffered more. Suffering is subjective so it is impossible to compare it. For example, I am in constant pain. I have a friend who is also in constant pain. How would we know whose pain is greater given the fact that only I can feel my pain and only he can feel his pain?

By not letting it exist you are destroying its potential, even if it is only in your head. — Sir2u

That's true but I am also creating an infinitely greater potential by creating an infinite number of all-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful beings who each get an omniverse containing an infinite number of universes for free. It's like losing trillions of dollars to gain an infinite amount of dollars. So, the gain infinitely outweighs the loss.

What right do you think you have to do this? Whether you believe in a godly creation or in evolution, suffering is a part of life. — Sir2u

I have more than a right, I have a duty to prevent all suffering, inequality, injustice, and deaths. If you had a Natural Disaster Preventing Machine would you not use it to prevent all cyclones, tornadoes, earthquakes, floods, droughts, landslides, etc.? I certainly would.

I want to prevent all suffering, inequality, injustice, and deaths because these things are so awful. We live in a horrific and unjust world. I was born in Bangladesh and lived there most of my life. I don't understand why you would not want to prevent all suffering, inequality, injustice, and deaths. Surely, it is better to have beings who never suffer and die than beings who suffer and die? We all prevent the existence of babies by not having sex without contraceptives constantly. What right do we have to destroy the potential lives of billions of babies? Yet we are doing it every second. This is not even an imaginary event. This is actually happening every second all over the Earth.

Do you think that a bunch of god like creatures would not suffer? Have you no idea about the effects of boredom? Something that is all knowing has no motivation to learn nor experience new things. Something that is all powerful never knows a challenge.
What the hell would they do with their eternal lives? — Sir2u

All-loving, all-knowing and all-powerful beings would be able to keep themselves from being bored using their abilities. For example, I draw pictures, write stories and poems and play musical instruments, etc. I could do so much more if I were all-knowing and all-powerful. I would be able to draw an infinite number of pictures, write an infinite number of stories and poems and play an infinite number of musical instruments, etc. Why would something need to be challenging to be enjoyable? I enjoy lots of things that are not in the slightest challenging e.g. getting a massage or eating vegan ice-creams.

You didn't answer the questions I asked you in the previous post. Is that because you don't know the answers or don't want to answer my questions? In either case, I wish you all the best.