I don't know enough about this subject to comment. However, I do think that Chinese fail to fully see the importance and value of taxes. Because reasonably, if you pay the taxes, you should care about and have a say in how to spend them. But here, it is not the case.

The philosophy learning guru. It's really interesting and enlightening what you wrote.

A belief is simply information/data that has found a place in the mind where it is rarely, if ever, deliberately, consciously questioned, scrutinized, evaluated, etc. — WISDOMfromPO-MO

Really? I thought belief is like an experiment. You do your research, act upon it, modify it and then see if it stands still and you repeat the process.

Beware of unearned wisdom. — Bret Bernhoft

It's interesting that here in China, this is not a common perception that one shall encounter often. I understand that in your area of expertise, taking the shortest path is almost aways a priority. Culturely, I do think Chinese most of the time prefer a shortcut.

It seems to me, that those who are against so-called "shortcuts to wisdom" are protecting something. — Bret Bernhoft

However, I wonder if it is possible that they are protecting ingenuity, innovation and individualism. Because in a society where cutting the corner is a social norm and deemed much more efficient, you would see the decline of innovation and creativity. From this perspective, I guess "Beware of unearned wisdom" has its merit. But in the end, the goal is what matters. If you want to start from scratch, go head; if you prefer taking a shortcut to expedite the process, totally fine.

I can't imagine Trump ever appearing more sensible or competent than Biden — Tom Storm

This is interesting. I certainly agree that deep down Biden is a more formidable foe to oppsing countries to the US. However, as for the comedian part, don't we agree that it is a facade that Trump pulled up intentionally to relate to and gain popularity from the majority of the non-elite voters and the unsatisfied middle-class? I thought the real appeal of Trump for Americans is a promise to address the economical problems right at hand and to alleviate some of the economical struggles for the people.

Thank you for putting it so nicely and consicely. I totally agree. It's just like hypnosis where you just got things into your mind without subjective awareness. The power of education and social culture is daunting. This is precisely why I started this discussion: how do we choose what to belief and how can we scientificly develop our belief system. In the end, freedom is just hard to achieve. Freeing your mind can be so much harder than freeing your body.

They understand that he is a much more fearsome opponent on the world stage, as he actually knows what he's doing. — Wayfarer

I certainlly agree with all what you said there. However it's a bit strange, because I didn't read those news from any official sites. In China, we didn't quite feel that our govenment explicitly or officially advocate any of them. Yet on an entertaining platform in China, called Bilibili, Trump indeed appears more likable. So i don't know if the govenment is behind this, because if so, they surely have done a very good job.

I don't know if I'm also subconsiously thinking about that. Or perhaps I'm just gullible to Trump's speeches and interviews where he appears to be more sensible and competent than Baiden. Considering Trump's popularity in the US, I think one factor that may really matter to his many advocates in the US is that he isn't some shrewd politician who would sacrifice ordinary people's direct interest for their own political agenda the impact of which wouldn't manifest itself in the short term but would eventually serve the country in the long run. I also agree that Baiden would pose a much bigger threat to China and Russia. I myself would really want a safe and peaceful global political environment so there is room instead of incessant tension for everyone to grow. The deeply rooted desire is that I want peace, not war; collaboration, not opposition. This may eventually explain my prefence for Trump.

It's certainly interesting. It has something to do with the platform that I used to get input of these two people. The popularity of Trump in China is definitely something to think about. I don't know whether there is something secretive going on beneath it or it's just about what kind of news gains popularity among people and spread faster.

I think you're probably getting a very filtered view of Trump — Wayfarer

Thank you for enlightening me. And yes, this is exactly why I want to disccuss him here (for fear that i'm too biased and ignorant of his wrong doings). From what you mentioned, he seems terrible, utterly selfish and self-centric. In retrospect, the image I had for him mainly came from his interviews where he seemed competent, intelligent and caring for the Americans. Also, he is a remote, internet-figure to me, that i don't suffer from the first-hand consequences for his election. I also don't have to "live with" him like the Americans since I only have every limited exposure to him where it's even like entertainment to me. I guess these sum up why many Chinese have this filtered-image of him.

I think you're probably getting a very filtered view of Trump — Wayfarer

But regarding the 2024 election, I wonder how you would vote. Because Trump is terrible, yes, but isn't Baiden even more gross. Let alone his corruption, his actions when he was with kids seem really disturbing to me.

I think you're probably getting a very filtered view of Trump — Wayfarer

It's also interesting to evaluate these two candidates based on the children they raised. Baiden's son showed not even a facade of goodness to me. So based on how he raised his son, I would assume Baiden is terrible to his core. As for trump's children, I thought they had acceptable human weaknesses. What's your view on this?

I remember that when I entered his saloon, there was a big portrait of Mao. I didn't consider them "communist" back then nor now. — javi2541997

Yes, it's exactly what I've encountered. Some very decent people have very strong beliefs in Mao. I had a friend in fact, who in my view is a very good person, once shared with me his admiration of Mao, and even recommended his book to me, which surprised me quite a bit, since so much time has passed and I naturally thought that his influence has dwindled. Another thing I‘d like to point out is that i think what really appears to these Mao admirers is this ideal image of a true socialist society which is embodies by Mao, it's this hope for a better, even utopia-like world. At last, thank you for your interest in China and thank you for your effort in trying to really see it and understand it.

Maybe I understood wrongly, but it seems that you perceive Modern China as highly-developed in economics but undeveloped in terms of ethics or morality.

I disagree here. In my opinion, a system that relies on ethics or morals of individuals would be doomed to fail. Because humans are unreliable, around the world, even in developed countries. What we need, from my perspective, is law and wise regulation and of course, bona fide execution.

How can China ever be considered socialist when it is not democratic, and it currently stands accused of:
- acting like an imperialist conqueror in Tibet.
- imposing a permanent government/dictatorship in mainland China and in Hong Kong.
- currently performing a military build up and an aggressive posture in the south China sea. — universeness

It's funny today i actually asked my friend "does our nation still advocate demoncracy?". It even surprised me when I said it. In my subconsious mind, China has deviated from what is was. For these many questions you asked, I think they do not seem relevant to the Chinese people, because they are our govenment's decision. As for the people, we have limited info sources and even these are controled by the government. Also, there is this fear of saying something wrong, which, I'm comtempleting today, whether it is justified. Because I personally have not heard about such retaliations for what someone said. Though, this fear is prevailing. So maybe it already worked without the need to even act on it. But again, China is a huge country to govern. It is still in development, so too much liberty or maybe even a bit more liberty may cause severe damage. As a traditionally more reserved country, we do value stability and safty as a nation and we surely have benefited from the prospority we enjoyed thanks to the peaceful environment. But the future is no such suspense as it is partially manifested from the Chinese stock market. And I'm sure there is a prize that we have to pay for our peace, whether it's the freedom of speech, or innovation, or individual development.

Mao's legacy is rarely seen as Chinese people nowadays — javi2541997

For this argument, I disagree. I myself is not particularly a fan. But I see many people, old or young, on the internet, actually admire him. They worship what he built. It almost felt that time has wiped away some downsides. Also, he is the one people always refer to under arguments in support of socialism. I'd say Mao is someone special to Chinese. Again, such an impression comes from my online experiences.

was wondering if Xi will be remembered as one of the main artificers of Chinese modern history, as well as Deng Xiaoping or Mao. — javi2541997

That we will wait and see. One thing is real though, that we feel less free to speak our mind. We fear what we said online might have real life consequences.

What is the impact of Xi Jinping on 21th century China? Is it true that he owns more leadership and charisma than Mao's socialism? — javi2541997

To answer your second question, I would say the emphasis on economy weakened. Nationalism and personality cult are on the rise. So there is a growing tension in China regarding him and his policies. As for charisma, no comment on it. I guess I value more what he actually accomplish during his time as a chairman. For some people, I guess the charisma thing is real, though for people like me, this sort of propaganda seems more like a means to an end since we've passed that stage where there would be a prevailing belief in one person. These are just from my perspective :).

Yes, I see your point. If I'm to make an analogy, I would say that when conducting scientific research, we'll have a methodology or an approach on how to address a problem. So i'm thinking if there is some methodology or may be philosophical guidlines that can help us build a belief system in this chaotic world that may also serve as an anchor to support us in these information storms.

It's interesting that here in China loads of people actually like Trump and to be honest, that include myself. At the same time, I know that many decent people loathe Trump around the world. So i try to think of the reasons behind our preference. Also, when I say many Chinese like Trump, I don't mean seeing the US as an opponent/enemy and so we prefer Trump so that he could bring down the America, but that if we were Americans, we might want to vote for him. The reasons I can think of is threefold. 1. We don't have direct exposure to the terrible things he said on a daily basis, but we only see the rosy side of him which seems genuine, non-politian-like, and intelligent, with the hope that he might actually make a difference. 2. He really seems to put the country's interest first, not his personal interest. 3. He would be against wars. But this morning, I happened to listen to a podcast in NPR where the host narrated a story of a Afghan refugee girl and how she, against all odds, managed to find asylum in the US. It almost brought me to tears and I then thought, am I being fair to like Trump? He may be more anti-war, but he and his policies would be much more American-centric, and it's gonna be cruel to these people who suffered so much.

I think one will naturally form beliefs and morals if they stay true to some core principles while practicing skepticism and speaking truth to power. — ToothyMaw

Thank you! However, the ability to practice skepticism may not be possible for some people. There are countries that raise their people to be dumb and deprieve their ability to be skeptical so that their rule can be secured. Under such circumstance, these govenments may cut out and limit the free flow of information to create a place that resembles a digital prison so to maintain the mind prison. I wonder how a person under such a condition, once gets enlightened, can form a healthy belief system and know what to believe.