"More about shadow and Other "

Did I miss episode 1?
I hope so.

Right but the inquiries that we all seek and share here will be lost. — Anaxagoras

We are doing almost the same today as they have done for the last few thousand years, anywhere language exists they will continue to discuss the same topics.

The contemplative "does God exist" or "I think therefore I am" will too, be lost in the rubble of human civilization. — Anaxagoras

Maybe it will change to "Why did god do this to us?". Or "I am therefore I must think to survive".

True, it would be a different type of wisdom but it would seem that the investigative inquiries and all of the historical elements that make up modern philosophical thought will be all lost. — Anaxagoras

There would be a great deal of loss of knowledge maybe, but humans will still have to eventually ponder the answers to the same questions. It might take a couple of hundred years or even a couple of thousand but philosophy will always be a part of humanity. Maybe they will come up with better, more intelligent answers than we have.

Any world changing event that leaves even small groups of humans will still not wipe out all of technology. Finding out how to make it work again will be the biggest problem they will face, and no I do not mean the internet or even electricity, I mean food production.

but will philosophy remain? — Anaxagoras

Yes, people will always love wisdom.

It might be a different type of wisdom though.

Introduce your friend to S. S knows all about dealing with obnoxious people.
Start walking around in one of those bright green or yellow t-shirts with his picture on the front and back and bright text that says "Property of Florida State Mental Health Detainment Center". That should make him think twice about hanging out with you.


Now I too have a problem, I need a certain amount of money to pay for some very important things. But I wont be able to pay it back for a couple of years.
Any offers.

Depends if harm is involved. — Anaxagoras

Sorry, I reread and edited something.

Surely sadists of the extreme kind tend to gravitate towards others of like mind. — Anaxagoras

I would not know much about that, but a lot of the murders you see on TV are pretty gruesome. If people were obliged to not do unto others what they would not like having done to them it might make them think before doing bad things.
An eye for an eye seems very appropriate in some cases.

Going back to my favorite subject aside from philosophy which is psychology, how do you reconcile your above reformatted quote with someone who has social anxiety disorder? — Anaxagoras

How do you relate the original with someone that has extreme sadistic/masochistic tendencies?

Surely it would perpetuate the behavior of one sick son of a bitch and hurt a lot of poor victims.

Edited because of missing masochist.....

fer ducks sake as a home owner I don't know of a scarier idea than Termites! :gasp: — ArguingWAristotleTiff

They are the reason I went all metal framework when I rebuilt my house. Rather have a pit of rust than those bloody things.

But the boy continued to be bullied. It took a terrific toll on his thinking capacity. He learned to be quicker with snide comments and half assed replies to things he did not like.
He became a philosophy forum troll.

Thoughts? — Anaxagoras

I always thought that this was badly written. It would make much more sense if it said,

"Don't do to others things that you don't want them to do to you".

Stated thus it would be applicable anywhere at any time.

Just a fleeting thought. — whollyrolling

Not everyone is like that, but there are too many. Some have recently read a bit of a book or read someone else's post on another site and them come here and blather on about it.
What I find even more annoying is when they quote those famous people as if their words were gospel.

Just let me know when you fall asleep. Oh, wait. :chin: — Purple Pond

Now you have something else to think about. :lol:

Invention is defined as something crafted by humans. — Blackhole94

No it is not, that is only part of the meaning. Bread was an invention, arrived at through experiments. Peeling bananas is an action, and it is doubtful there was an inventor.

Invent: Come up with (an idea, plan, explanation, theory, or principle) after a mental effort

Invention: A creation (a new device or process) resulting from study and experimentation

Basically, I’m looking for a proper definition of “invent” that excludes things like peeling a banana — Blackhole94

Where did you even get the idea that peeling a banana could be said to be inventing. :rofl:

Why don't you try telling us what the dictionary says and then tell us what is wrong with that definition.

The rest of you aren't Narcissus. — S

Praise be to Murphy for that small blessing. :pray:

I'm stuck here until I turn into a flower. — S

How long do you reckon it will be before that blessing happens? :cool:

Some of us are trying to lovingly gaze at their own reflection in a puddle. — S

Be truthful, because it is only you that does that sort of thing.

The rest of us have mirrors for that. :smirk:

Way to go girl.
You show em how its done.

When someone is jiving you, they are trying to make you look stupid.

I don't know who you are and whether you really are a closet sociopath — Wallows

Hell, he came out a long time ago.

Rule 12.5
Never listen to anything S says.
Rule 12.6
If S is in the discussion try to make as many spelling and grammar mistakes as possible without seeming to be doing it on purpose. (It drives him into Nazi mode)
Rule 12.7
If you are gonig to the trouble of writing rules for the forum, take the time to read them yourself and abide by them.

Is that how people get rich today? Shit man where did i see my pajamas?

As an experienced ex boyfriend/husband of several delightful females, mainly because of similar situations, I can highly recommend that you decide early on before there are complications.
Give him advanced warning that there will be a decision making meeting about the future and that he should bring along his thoughts, you do the same. Granting that things do change when people are together plans will have to be flexible, but goals should not be.
When me and the missus got together she was told that I did not want any more kids, I was told that she wanted to continue studying. But we bother agreed that we wanted to have our own house. Thirty something years later we have a 25 yr old daughter that finished university, the wife has her degrees, we have our own house and we do not owe anyone anything.
But we both still drink a few beers once in a while.

Setting and working towards goals might make him think before drink.

I'm not saying I literally like it, was just being facetious about it. — Anaxagoras

Yeah, I figured that one out. :wink:

I remember this from 7th grade, we had a sexy teacher that wanted to discuss the meaning of Easter.

She asked us why we thought we were given Easter eggs and the answers, looking back at them, were hilarious.
I remember saying that they used chocolate because before they used to have real eggs but they went rotten.
A friend said that it was because chocolate came from Africa. Even the teacher had to think about that one.
Another thought it was about eating dragon eggs from the dragons Saint George had killed so that there would not be any more dragons.
No one came up with the association to Jesus
Jeez, that brought back some memories.

I like how you ignored me when I answered your question directly. Apparently you're looking for confirmation bias. — Anaxagoras

You might like it but I don't. Seems she has her own agenda and the rest does not count.

Don't you think its a chain reaction? Little girls wouldn't think theyre smart or capable of maths or philosophy if they don't see enough women in the field. — EcceHomo

Would that not depend on the parents, the mothers especially. If the mother does not have enough balls to tell her daughters that they can do whatever they like, then maybe I was wrong about mothers being philosophers.
And the same would have to apply to men becoming dress makers, hair stylists and cooks.

How many female truck drivers do you know? Could that be because of lack of role models or is it just because most girls would never dream of driving a truck because it is not glamorous enough?

He was created in my image. — Hanover

:rofl: :rofl:

I'm pretty sure Baden and @Michael will be here because their mothers are already here and they probably want to see them. — Hanover

Waz der mamas doin der?

I'm like a cult leader, just more godlike. — Hanover

Have you been reading S's posted, you are beginning to sound like him.

Sir2u, motherhood is different... I even find it insulting of you to say that about women. — EcceHomo

Shucks lady, now you made me feel guilty. Well not really that much, maybe just a little, no actually not even a little.

How can you be so belittling to the wondrous state of motherhood? If being a mother is not philosophizing then I am not sure that philosophy even exists.
Can't believe that I am being called out for saying that mothers are philosophers, damn, next thing you know I will get shit for saying that cats are cuddly.

And every single person is a philosopher/thinker by your standards. — EcceHomo

Are we not all philosophers then? What sets apart a philosopher from a regular person?

Just take a cab. I'll pay the fare when he arrives. — Hanover

Bloody marvelous old chap. Next weekend it is then. Who else is going to show up? I might be able to stay for the second round. :grin: :up:

Since it's close to my house, I'll buy the first round. — Hanover

Problem is that I can only stay for a few minutes, but I would be glad to join you for a beer. By the way, could you lend me a few dollars for the fare?

"Why aren't there many female thinkers today?"

Is not trying to be a good mother not philosophical enough for you? Just imagine what kind of a mother you would be if you did not apply your thinking skills to the job.

"looking better baby at half past two" instead of "Some things looking better, baby just passing through"

Elton John Lyrics
"Sacrifice"

Hearing probably influenced by early escapades and all night parties. My version just seemed truer.

Because they don't have the meta-cognition for this. — schopenhauer1

How do you know that they don't have the meta-cognition for this? If as you have said this is true, there must be some evidence of it.

To know one's own likes and dislikes (and not just "dislike" in the moment as a primary perception) is to have a model of self, which as far as we know really requires language.

Our species happened to evolve in the unique trait of linguistic mental capacities which then ratcheted the brain in a co-evolution of sorts to have abilities that co-opted this capacity with more plasticity, episodic memory, and learning (which allowed for more cultural input rather than hard-wired or rudimentary learning techniques). — schopenhauer1

Again, what proof do you have that language is necessary to have a model of self. We don't even know if animals have language or not. There are many theories but no real evidence in either direction. How can you be sure that there are not animals that have a language hard wired into them. There is an theory about this question but I will let you find it.

The language centers and co-opted centers that evolved with/from this were taken from more primitive centers I agree (i.e. mirror neurons, FOXP2 gene, the neocortex development, the brocas and wernikes region, etc.). — schopenhauer1

So the only way to develop language is the human way, no other possibilities? We certainly don't fully understand how humans have developed into what we are today, and unfortunately we have even less understanding of how animals have done so. Yes they can to a certain accuracy explain the ancestry of a lot of animal, where the came from, but they still have a long way to go explaining anything other than the obvious physical changes. Little has been done to study animal culture, the norms, customs, rules and so on of the group interactions. And most social animals do seem to have them.

Let me leave you with a joke.

An old monkey was sitting in a tree deep in the African jungle with his grandson. The little one sees some people coming up the hill towards them.
He jumps up and down with excitement and says "Grandad look, people"
The older monkey says "Sit down and shut up"
A few minutes later the youngster says "Grandad look they are almost here"
The older monkey says "Sit down and shut up"
A few minutes later the youngster says "Grandad they are almost here. Lets go down and talk to them"
The older monkey says "Sit down and shut up"
The youngster, almost crying says " But Gramps I want to talk to the people"
The older monkey says "Sit down and shut up"
As the people pass by the young monkey weeps at the lost opportunity. After a while he says " Why did you not want to talk to the people Grandad?"

The old monkey looks at the little one and says " If those white things ever found out we could talk they would drag us away and make us work for nothing like they did with those black things that used to live down by the river."

:up: Nice

the moral of this story — Wallows

Keep on laughing so that you can die happy.

I know you want to derail this part into the topic of "animals know they dislike" and make misapplied analogies to animal behavior that are not the same, but that isn't quite the point here really.

Rather, it is that we humans deal with the fact that we can know we dislike and then basically have to decide if we want to deal with the stress of even lesser options or going through the unliked situation anyways- despite our UNDERSTANDING of our OWN dislike. — schopenhauer1

I don't think that anyone here has actually denied that this is true about humans, most have accepted it to be true. Whether it is a self applied defense mechanism or even some sort of hard wired "suck it up" behavior we cannot be sure, but yes humans have this ability. It is incredible.

But it is your insistence that only humans have this ability that bothers me.
There are many examples of animals doing repeatedly things that they like to do, after obviously taking some sort of decision to do it. There are many examples of animals not doing things that they obviously enjoy doing and have done willingly plenty of times, after obviously taking some sort of decision to do it. I agree that not all animals are capable, but there are many that do seem to consider consequences before acting.

So why do you think is it not possible for them to understand their own likes and dislikes? Could it not be simply because we are not able to understand them that they appear not to be self conscious?

He used to be an animal. Then he got into philosophy and pulled himself up by his four dewlaps. — Bitter Crank

I am still am animal, and always will be just like the rest of you.
And no I do not even have a double chin never mind a rollypolly neck. The only extra weight I have is the 12 pack just above the belt line which I do blame philosophy for. Too much time sitting around contemplating the universe.

What you had to say is interesting, but it didn't connect with what you quoted. That's OK, not complaining. — Bitter Crank

Oh sorry, it was only the first line or so that was in reply to what you said. The rest was just my rambling mind ranting on.

You seem to be very sensitive and knowledgeable about animals. What is your background with them? — Noah Te Stroete

A life time living with and observing them.

Of course they do, but they need to be properly managed. We can safely deceive ourselves that we COULD beat the boss into submission with our bare hands, but we can not afford to deceive ourselves about getting away with it. We can safely believe that we COULD execute the perfect bank robbery; we can not safely deceive ourselves that we will be successful. When it comes to robbing banks, for instance, one needs to be meticulous and ruthlessly realistic. — Bitter Crank

Been there, done that. Humans quite often do deceive themselves into believing that they can get away with things though, and end up in trouble about it.
Do animals even need to deceive themselves? Say for the moment that they have the capability to do so, what would they deceive themselves about? And more importantly, how would we ever know that they were doing it? If they do deceive themselves then we would have just as much of a problem proving it as we would proving they are not self aware.
We take a lot for granted when it comes to what animals are mentally capable of, but how does anyone know that any of it is true. Birds, rats, dogs, cats all do things that are for no apparent reason and not all of it could be attributed to instinctual survival behavior.
When a dog looks for his master's hand to get his ears scratched, does he do it by rote? If that were so then the dog would need some sort of a trigger to activate the action. In many cases I have found that dogs just walk up to you and indicate they want a scratch. Would this not indicate that on some level they have decided that they like scratches and want one now?