Sometimes they help, if structured right. I'm an example. — Relativist

:lol: OK, if you say so.

We can decide whether their situation is deserving or not: — Bitter Crank

That is the best any of us can do. But if you had nothing to spare after those you love were taken care of, how far would you go to help?

Or, maybe their situation deserves assistance -- a tornado wrecked their part of town (and, coincidentally, they are no more dishonest than anybody else). — Bitter Crank

A few years ago my house was almost wrecked by a 7.8 earthquake. The government offered assistance and then suddenly there was a forced takeover/change of president and it never came. I don't think that it was immoral of me to ask for money, but I did not expect it to be given to me. Some of my workmates actually did make a collection and I was rather embarrassed about receiving it.

Not everyone is dishonest, but not everyone has a valid reason to be asking for money from strangers.

maybe we should learn him to fish? — Aleksander Kvam

:grin: Do you have the time to teach him? That is what needs to be done. Handouts from the government do not solve the problems. Make people that ask for money as a way of life learn to be a productive member of society would help more.

I would rather give some spare money to an old man or woman that cannot help themselves than to my daughter to buy more tennis shoes with. But I don't get into the places where these people live too often.

Speaking politically then isn't the rational solution, mores socialism? — Posty McPostface

Speak emotionally then. Social mores have been the backing of many a maiming and many mutilations
in the begging industry throughout history.

What would be more immoral? Having an aging man dressing up as a clown to tell jokes on a bus and then ask for a few coins or giving the old timer a few coins while he sits by the road begging?

Making our personal sphere of interaction and interest would , as some pointed out, do little or no good. The fact is that there should be no asking for money. A functioning society would take care of its own as a society not as individuals.

What's interesting about it? — Posty McPostface

Are there beggars where you live? I don't mean the guys hanging around asking for money, I mean real beggars.

We just don't know where the money will go, so we don't give. — Posty McPostface

So if you knew then you would give?

If we had assurance, that it would be spent on necessities or the betterment of their situation, then wouldn't you be more inclined to give them money then? — Posty McPostface

Alcoholics NEED booze, would it be moral to help them acquire it?

Surely, we do. To some extent. — Posty McPostface

OK, to what extent? Who should be making the decision or how should it be made? Is there a standard formula for it?

I meant this figuratively. Just rhetorical tripe, hehe. — Posty McPostface

But it is an interesting question.

What can be done to enlarge our sphere of interest, and if anything should be done at all? — Posty McPostface

To be honest, I am not sure if there is anything we need to do. Most people I know help to others to the extent that they are able, if not financially by giving them things they need or helping to look after them in some way.

As individuals, do we really have a moral obligation towards the rest of humanity?

dont think anyone has said that its not OK for begging on the streets — Aleksander Kvam

Me neither. Please read what I said again.

If some random stranger off the street asked you for a hundred dollars for some reason, you wouldn't oblige. — Posty McPostface

Turn the tables, would you expect someone you did not know to give you money. Would you asking them for it be immoral?

I sort of feel sorry for the old guy, he has not only been fooling himself for years but others have been doing it too.

I like the idea, but people living in different time zones might complicate things.

Also I think that the topic should be set the day before the debate so as to give the debaters a chance to catch up on the topic. I don't mean do a complete investigation, but I personally like to have some time to think through things before I have discussions on them. This might not be needed if the topic is about recent events or more common ideas, but most of those would be boring .

Nice story, shame you forgot to add the link. Banno will love it.:smile:

I was referring to contemporary "sightings". — raza

I was not.

I only wanted to plant enough for anyone interested enough for themselves to further look into. — raza

You should have done so before posting the link.

There is a lot of evidence for the genuinly interested. — raza

You should have posted the other links as well then so the posters could read about the information behind your thoughts. Not many people have the time or the interest to go search for the information.

I find it disingenuous when people pose as interested. — raza

And just what are you referring to with this?

I’m aware the US military conduct testing there. Any UFO is likely to be a result of military tests whether such things as flying objects are the military’s tests of their own actual secretly developed craft or secretly developed holograms. Holigraphic technology is more advanced than you may realize which can be utilised to deceive.

The military complex, just as it is with espionage agents, do play games with citizens involving the creation of enemies that don’t actually exist in real life. ‘Security’ is probably the biggest business there is. The ‘Security business’ doesn’t even have to convince to sell. They just take through taxes. — raza

Do some reading.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roswell_UFO_incident

None of the technology you talk about was even dreamed about back them.

Not if the technology is kept secret for use in nefarious operations.

That missing plane made Jacob Rothschlid over 16 billion dollars. Yep, the Rothschild group.

Are you aware of the military airport of Diego Garcia? Residents of The Maldives witnessed that plane near that base. — raza

Unless you can provide sum sort of REASONABLE source for this, and the rest of it, I call BS.

Are you aware of the military airport of Diego Garcia? Residents of The Maldives witnessed that plane near that base. — raza

Are you aware of Roswell, the residents witnessed a UFO near there.

One can't pause the speaker to finish thinking. — Waya

With so many phones in class rooms, why don't students record the teacher so that they can study at home? they could pause and even replay then.

Oh, you with those sunglasses. Haha! — Posty McPostface

Cus I is coool, don u know.

Its like the Squares from Crybaby were given an entire district to flourish and reproduce in. — Akanthinos

Yeah, but they were Canadian English, not English English. Living near the docks in Manchester and having a seafaring father made my vocabulary a bit better than the other kids, but only a little bit.
I remember in 5th grade a teacher being overhead talking about the fucking headmaster being an idiot. We told him that he should not fucking well use that word in front of the fucking kids. He went scarlet and we got away with swearing in front him, for the rest of the year.
We did abuse the situation though. Nudge, nudge, wink.

I'm probably right about this too... — Posty McPostface

Agreed. :cool:

And before you ask, my logic says that rationing is the same as banning.

And I am always right.

I think that's a deal? — Posty McPostface

So now that we have the problem of cakes being banned solved, we can have cake to celebrate out deal. And I want chocolate fudge ice cream on top of mine. :up:

I propose that the glass being half full or half empty depends on the direction it is headed. Like immigrate vs emigrate. — ProbablyTrue

I think that it would be half full after being filled to that level, and half empty after being emptied to that level. So the direction of flow might have something to do with the problem.

More fake news for you. — unenlightened

The first one might not be false, there are plenty of petty politicians fighting for some cause or other just to get their name in the papers so that people will recognize them.

The second one I have no idea about.

I noticed, if I recollect correctly, that even since the old PF, you've been against cakes and pancakes, of all!, being inherently good. — Posty McPostface

Eat some cake, your memory is failing you. Nope, I have nothing at all against cupcakes, big cakes, cheese cakes, ice cream cakes, nor pancakes. I love all of them. :love:

I do have something against people that say things are inherently good though, because that implies that somethings might be inherently bad.

But you are, at least, a likable person so I ask again. Why inherent?

Why not just bloody marvelous?

I just happen to speculate the otherwise. No biggie. — raza

If this equipment had been installed in every aircraft, don't you think we would have heard about some problem it caused or failed to solve?
Counting that they said it would take a few years to get it into all of the aircraft it would still be a few years ago that they become able to remotely control the planes. It seems sort of strange that the people that pushed to spend all of this money are not rushing to validate their wonderful ideas at every opportunity.
Like wise the ones that opposed the installation would be screaming about the smallest of problems caused by them.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3013858/Why-t-airlines-seize-control-doomed-jets-ground-technology-exists-pilots-companies-refuse-use-it.html

Hence it is inherently good. :blush: — Posty McPostface

A lot of people think that heroin is better than chocolate, thus it is very inherently good.

What are the properties of cake that makes it inherently good? As opposed to "everyone likes it"

That reminds of going to live in Montreal, aged 12. On of the kids at school started to tell a joke and the others told him not to waste his time because I would not understand French jokes told in English. The kid replied that "fucking is fucking in any language". I thought that was funnier than the actual joke. Some of the kids even thought that the English did not know words like fuck.

Un-hackable is not possible. If someone can create a system where remote control can happen from anywhere on the planet someone will find a way to take over control soon enough.
I think the authorities realized this and decided not to install them.

What's to prove, just take a bite of some pancakes or a cheesecake! — Posty McPostface

Yes, good. Maybe even great. Who would want to miss out on a big slice of chocolate cake with fudge filling? I can't imagine anyone turning it down.

Well I agree to disagree with you — Posty McPostface

I can agree to that.

I insist that cakes and particularly pancakes are inherently good. — Posty McPostface

OK, so prove it.

While the journey to the top floor of the building is hard, you have a better view than from the basement.

But pancakes are inherently good and safer on the wasteline and teeth no? — Posty McPostface

No and NO.

Essentially what you said was that the ingredients of cake can be bad, but not cake itself. And you need to brush your teeth. :joke: — Waya

No, the cake is definitely good, that is why it is a bad idea to ration it. But it is not inherently good, just good.
Eerrrrr, why would anyone want to brush their teeth? :gasp:

How can anyone hate cake??? — Posty McPostface

No one hates cakes. But loving them does not make them inherently good.

Now leave the bloody things alone and let us get on this rotting our teeth and growing our waistlines and butts

My logic is flawless. — Posty McPostface

Cake is fattening, tooth rotting and made from flour that is contaminate with all sorts of waste, therefore it is not inherently good. Thus it should not be rationed.

Cake must be rationed. — Posty McPostface

Bollocks. You have no authority to do that. :rage:

What was the guy holding the chair going to do with it-- Yell "Get back in your cage!"? — Bitter Crank

:lol: No idea. Maybe his first instinct was to make sure he did not get hit as well.

I noticed that nobody rushed to the aid and comfort of the allegedly abused woman. Did she have it coming?perhaps that is why none of the women rushed over to commiserate with her. — Bitter Crank

I noticed that as well, but I have no idea how people treat each other in the street in Paris. You see videos all the time of people being beaten up, but no one goes to their aid. Might be that they are too busy filming, or that they do not want to get involved with someone they do not know.
If you look at the beginning of the clip, it appears that they crossed paths randomly, each coming from the opposite direction. They did not appear to know each other and she did not make any attempt to avoid walking past him which she would have done if she had known him and did not want to speak to him.

We didn't hear what the guy told the citoyens concernés de Paris. Perhaps Monsieur's explanation was éminemment satisfaisant, — Bitter Crank

Where I live the conversation would go something like this.
Nice guy "Hey, you can't go around slapping women like that"

Not nice guy "Shut the fuck up or I'm gonna do the same to you"

Nice guy "You can't say that to me, I'm calling the cops!"

Not nice guy "Go ahead and I'll come back for you later"

End of discussion.

But I don't live in Paris.

July 31 2018
Crazies in the street.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/shocking-paris-video-harasser-slaps-033055885.html

After you have finished with the post above, check out this one. Do you still think the same?