Oh what blankets on our bed
when we use a can of worms for thread.

I'm not saying, "Don't question", just "Question wisely". — Sapientia

What would you consider a well thought out, wise question? Is there any that you would like to ask?

Stay in the shade Tiff. Keep cool about the way life moves on, cus there ain't a damn thing you nor anyone else can do about it. Have a smiley. :smile:

Interested in agreement or disagreement, and why. — Sapientia

What could I possibly disagree with or agree with, you did not make a statement but asked a question. Oh, the question mark is missing.

You appear to have mistaken a question for an assertion, and you haven't attempted to answer it, or any of my questions for that matter. — Sapientia

No, I did not confuse a question for a statement, that seems to be unique to you. Your question contains the phrase "that which we already know" which itself is a statement.

Is there something about it which opens up for debate that which we already know — Sapientia

Don't change the subject. I asked that question because I'm interested in what others think. — Sapientia

I have not changed the subject. I too asked that question because I'm interested in what others think.

But to answer your original question and avoid further miss understanding, yes I think some people become pretentious. These people are usually the ones that post things like "Yes, I think you have that about right", "Oh you beat me to it, I was just going to post the same thing", " I could not have expressed that better myself" or sometimes just refuse to give a straight answer. I am sure you have noticed those people.

I read some book a while ago about a guy who went to an ivy league school who said that there was competition among the students to constantly ask questions and gain recognition. The point was that it put the Asian students at a disadvantage because their culture demanded that the teachers be respected and listened to, and that it was also disrespectful to the other students to force them to listen to you when there was a more learned professor in the room. — Hanover

I am sure that Plato would disagree with the orientals. I do too, even my avatar does.

Is there something about philosophy which invites or attracts a sort of pretence? — Sapientia

Is that a philosophical question, an ironical question or do you really want to know? It seems to me that if you think that we would know the answer then you also should know it. We all have dictionaries and google so why are you asking us?

Is there something about it which opens up for debate that which we already know? — Sapientia

How do you know that everyone knows this? Is it just because you say you know it that it has to be true?

Is everything really a matter of personal opinion? — Sapientia

What do you think?

An educational establishment is also a social institution. — unenlightened

And in this sense the purpose of education is to change their behavior to suit the society. Behavior as in the way they live their lives, not as in discipline.

Children do not in general approach teachers to ask them to teach; rather more so, teachers approach children and ask them to learn. This changes everything. It makes a joy into a duty. — unenlightened

Ain't that the truth. So few students nowadays want to ask questions because the fear being shown up for a dunce in front of the other dunces. And to make it worse, now we have to worry about them laughing at each other on the internet.

You've self-identified as someone who teaches various subjects - without qualifying yourself as a person in possession of knowledge about these subjects — tim wood

Does it not stand to reason, even by your own definition, that one must be in possession of knowledge to be able to impart it to others? I impart some of my knowledge to the students, it is then their job to learn it.

but that what you teach is "basic knowledge." — tim wood

As I explained before, teachers would not be able to impart all of the knowledge they possess to their students. Much as one might try to do so, not many students would be capable of learning it.

For example, a math teacher should be capable of high level equation solving, working out prime numbers to the thousandth, working out square roots . He might try to teach everything he knows but it is doubtful that he will get past the basics of math. University level math might include things like the square root of 2. A high school teacher would be able to teach about square roots but it is not really likely that the students would grasp the concepts of the square root of 2. So he teaches the basics and prepares the kids to go to university as best he can.

Suppose your living required you row your dory off the beach into the ocean to catch fish to sell and to eat. Suppose someone approached you to teach them how to fish. They might ask you what you know, and could you impart that knowledge, teach it. You might answer, "I know how to fish, and I can teach someone how to fish." — tim wood

But does the fisherman teach the person everything he knows? Would he be able, in a short time, to show the person how the tides, shore lines, water temperature, time of day, type of bait, the depth of the the water, the depth of the bait in the water, the size of the hook and line, the type of boat needed and a lot of other factors that affect the catching of different type of fish? And that is not taking into account which fish to keep and which to throw back for some reason.
Unless he was being paid very well, had plenty of time to dedicate to teaching it and that the person was really, I mean really interested in learning I doubt that his teachings would go beyond the basics. He would try to teach what the person would need to know to catch fish.

What do you know, that you can teach? — tim wood

That would be a long list.
Let's see if I can make a short list of things that are taught both in and out of school.
I am a heavy goods vehicle, heavy machine driver/operator and mechanic. I have taught, although informally, both.
I am a qualified, certified welder, gas and electric. I have trained people to do both.
I have training in technical drawing and have taught that.
I can plot multiple boat's or ship's courses on a chart using radar and GPS. Never had the chance to teach it but I am confident that I could do.
I have a Microsoft certificate that means I can give computer classes, which I am presently going. I am not going to try to teach the kids everything I know because it would be a waste of time. So I teach them the basics of computer literacy that they need to do assignment and that will be useful in university or most of the jobs they get.
I have plenty of knowledge of the English language, grammatical, written and spoken and try to teach it. Some kids just don't get the idea of being bilingual.
I have a certain amount of knowledge about sociology and psychology, not enough to say that it is university level but more than enough for a high school curriculum. I teach what is in the curriculum in a way that applies to peoples lives.

There is a lot of other stuff that I sometimes apply in short practical courses as well but time is short today.

It'll just take a bit of time for a Catholic candidate to muster a reactionary mouvement that will bury Munoz. — Akanthinos

I live in Central America, the Catholics are losing ground every day to the Evangelicals. But most of the candidates are catholic, they just don't use it as a political statement.

My understanding of a teacher is that he or she possesses knowledge.... You try to give your students basic knowledge. Is that your body of knowledge? What of Eng. Lit., grammar, writing, psych., sociology, cultural history? — tim wood

It would be impossible for most teachers to go beyond giving students anything more than the basics of their knowledge. How could a teacher that has a university level of education be expected to pass on all of that knowledge to school kids.
Being able to write a proper essay, perform math at a reasonable level, understand that people around the world do not all live the same kinds of life, know that laws exist for reasons, are all necessities, basic knowledge that is needed for students to succeed in university. This is what most teachers try to pass on.
How many kids do you know that have left high school without the basic knowledge that they are going to need to survive?

So it's up to you to say: do you make your students better in some sense with Englsh, Psych., Soc., History? Or in basic knowledge? — tim wood

What did you learn in high school? Was there anything earthshaking about it? Or was it just a basic look at the different areas of human knowledge to give you an opportunity to get a feel for what you are good at?
After leaving high school, were you prepared to go out into the real world and fend for yourself. Most people that don't want jobs at Walmart want to go to university, did you go? Were you prepared for learning at the university. If you were then you probably had good teachers that gave you the basic skills and knowledge that were necessary.
As you said too many teachers don't do a good job, but it is not always their fault. And as universities all over the world are finding out, a lot of the students are not being properly prepared to learn and study at their level.

I have, at least I believe I have, made a difference to the lives of some of my students. I doubt any teacher can claim they made a difference to all of their students. I have presently an ex student at Harvard(on a full scholarship), 2 at the university of Munich, and quiet a few at other good universities around the world including Japan and Korea. Several others have graduated from universities in France, the UK, Switzerland.
I cannot nor will not claim responsibility for any of my ex students being where they are, they got there because that was what they wanted to do. But the first person they look for when they come to visit the school is me. No, I am not bragging. Even the owner and principal are left waiting.

Not a Catholic, so won't matter. — Akanthinos

Your not a catholic so it does not matter to you?
or
This discussion is about Catholics so it does not matter?

They are taking over.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/article207342744.html

I use DOS 1.3 — Hanover

5 was the best version. Get actualized once in a while will you.

What is the name of what you teach? — tim wood

If you mean by this, what subjects do I teach, then the answer is quite a few over the years. I have worked mostly in bi-lingual schools so it is not as easy as you might think. Some of the course I have taught are;
English lit, grammar, writing.
Introduction to psychology.
Introduction to sociology.
Cultural history.

If you agree with the first part, and you're (apparently) a teacher, then what do you say the body of knowledge is that you can impart? — tim wood

Not sure exactly what you are asking here.

If "basic knowledge that will be useful in everyday life" is all you have to offer, then you have a problem. — tim wood

Critical thinking, investigation and evaluation, written and oral communication skills are some of the things I call basic knowledge. I expect my high school kids to be able to wipe their own noses and asses.

Most students are already masters of their lives - we might well call it mere survival - but it's what gets them through their days. It's what they trust and know, even if it amounts to their making virtues of their vices. — tim wood

Unfortunately they are not masters of their own lives, they only think they are. Most of them still are very dependent on mom and dad to keep their lives going. I would seriously have to disagree that most of these kids are fit to survive in the real world.
The kids today think that the internet, farcebook, twatter and so on are most important thing their is. Getting likes and followers out ways almost anything for some of them. And the sad thing is that some of them actually believe that there is nothing more they need to know than how to use these damn things.

On the basis of your description, I doubt that you have much to offer there. — tim wood

I will invite you to class one day so that you can judge from a better perspective. Mainly because there is not really a way to give a good description here.

And you forgot two: salesman and manipulator — tim wood

There are a lot more, I did not not really see the need to be exhaustive in the list. :wink:

This is true, but so general as to be useless. — jastopher

No, it is the main activity of a teacher.

Your definition of behavior is too narrow. You take it as whether they are good or bad boys and girls.

Everything that you do, from what books you pick to read to whether you pick your nose in public is part of it.

The purpose of any education is to impart ways of behaving that conform to the needs of the society.
Education in the rain forest tribe is not about sitting in a classroom learning from books but about learning what plants and animals you can eat, how to look after the forest, how to build shelters, in other words the needs of the society.

Today we need engineers and chemists, doctors and nurses, cops and politicians so the education system is geared to making people behave like them.

A teacher is a person in possession of a body of knowledge, with the skill to impart that knowledge to people who.... I have to pause here. — tim wood

I do that often as well, pause to take a deep breath. That is a reasonable take on what a teacher is supposed to be. But it goes way beyond that.
You have to be a mother, father, baby sitter, big brother sometimes as well. You also have to be a student, things change from day to day and you should be keeping up. Paying the students for doing their jobs is a job in itself, you have to be an accountant almost. You have to be a project manager to keep all of the little bits and pieces together and running smoothly and up to standards. Plus good understanding of the educational laws is most useful. Etc, etc, etc.
And you have to work hard at staying human and same.

What I'd like to hear from a candidate is a very simple statement of what he or she intends to teach, thinks important to teach, and why. — tim wood

I try to give my students basic knowledge that will be useful in everyday life. And a lot of them think that it is too much because "the information is available on google, so why should I learn it".

So, what is the purpose of education? — jastopher

To modify the behavior of those being educated.

Meeting an ex student, that hated me, on the street and getting a warm thank you

It's just that you should not let a hamster debate with a frog. Why don't you try a toad with a rat?

Is there a _____________ in the forum. We need one to ________________.

The Greeks won the Great Tomato War of 1386.

It makes _________ to be ______________

There is a very small light at the end of the tunnel or it's an incoming train and I am in the outbound lane. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

As long as you as are not going backwards on the inbound lane, no problem. :grin:

Somebody got the last word in the last forum. — Purple Pond

Because we all got locked out. you cannot continue the game without access to it.

Can a sentence end with the? — Lone Wolf

Did you not write this sentence ending with the? :smile:

The morality of bio-technology used to improve the human beyond the scope of normal humanity.

I just thought it was an important last word to have if any :wink: — Mr Phil O'Sophy

But it is not the last word is it?

Whenever I feel an itch I want to touch it.

Who is that _________, I would __________

If you do not do the job, someone else will.

And they might do it more efficiently. And get payed well for doing it. Therefore it is your duty to take the job and make the equipment just good enough to be accepted but not to good to kill a lot of people.

Strip away the miracles and everything else that simply can't be (with some care; the flood, for example, happened), and what endures is the Christian message of love. To be a Christian is to love like a Christian - neither as easy or simple as it sounds. But too simple for people who don't really understand it, and who need the dressing of myth. — tim wood

The message is good though little practiced, but that applies to all religions. Love thy neighbor, as long as he goes to the same church.
Unfortunately to remove the myths, miracles and magic trim from religions there would be few followers. Most of them are there for the blessing to cover their sins or ease their pains, to take away their troubles or just to have someone take the blame for a screwed up life.
Do you understand the urge to live for eternity? I shudder at the thought of it.

That is a good point. Although I feel this is the first time Religion has adopted a philosophy that is directly antithetical to its previous practices showing a form of "desperation" in its need to be attractive to the population. — SnowyChainsaw

I am not sure just how opposing this philosophy really is to the present one. I suspect they will actually be going back in time to become what they once were, a major part of the political ruling class. Sucking up more to the rich and powerful to maintain their own powers. The vatican bank has actually been doing this for many years, investing in all sorts of companies that whilst being frowned upon for the evil, sinful products they make bring huge sums of capital into the bank.

Christianity is a business, they cannot go on losing paying customers and closing up shops.

Ok so after reading the article its not as interesting as I'd hoped. — SnowyChainsaw

Oh, my first thought after reading it was will the addiction pass on to off springs like some drugs do? The second question was If so, for how long has it been passed down now?

What does this all say about me? Wondering. — Posty McPostface

I would say that you are an organized think.

I use different colored pens to denote different reasons for grades I give.

Red for crappy work.
Blue for late presentation.
Black for accepted final grade.
Sometimes other color, with side notes to explain reason.
It saves writing the explanations along side each of the grade.

OK, whatever you say.

Language is more flexible than the dictates of your Chambers English Dictionary (1998 edition). — Sapientia

In everyday use, I would quite agree with you. But on a philosophy forum, I don't. And it is not my dictionary by the way, I have no idea who owns it either.

The study of ethics is about what is good and what is evil, it is a rational not an emotional activity.

People react to moral situations emotional most of the time.
People react to ethical dilemmas by analyzing it in the light of good or bad.

Not the same thing.

Like you do, only my definition is more broad. We've literally just been over this. I think a more encompassing definition works better than one such as yours which only takes into consideration academic study. Ethics is more than that. It deals with matters relating to ethics: morality, moral judgement, moral agency, moral dilemmas, right, wrong, actions, intentions, consequences, and all the rest. — Sapientia

I think I see the problem here.

The Chambers English Dictionary (1998 edition) highlights important distinctions between ethics and morals:
Ethics
The science of morals, that branch of philosophy which is concerned with human character and conduct: a system of morals, rules of behaviour: a treatise on morals.

Moral
Of or relating to character or conduct considered as good or evil: ethical: conformed to or directed towards right, virtuous: esp. virtuous in matters of sex: capable of knowing right and wrong: subject to the moral law.

Morality
Quality of being moral: that which renders an action right or wrong: the practice of moral duties apart from religion: virtue: the doctrine of actions as right or wrong.

Ethics can also be counted in everyday use as a guiding principle as to decide what is good or bad. They are the standards which govern the life of a person such as a doctor or lawyer.

It's an ethical situation to begin with - all moral dilemmas are. — Sapientia

The situation I described is a moral dilemma, not an ethical situation.

How do you define ethics?

Any moral dilemma comes under the umbrella of ethics. — Sapientia

I asked a simple question, how does ethics come into the situation.

I am not being pedantic, I am truly interested in what you think.

These two points suggest that Religious Ideology is capable of adopting principles from more socially agreeable ideologies as well as a motivation for doing so, however, I need to add that this is not an evolution of Religion, but rather a replacement of it. — SnowyChainsaw

Adopting principles or taking them over. Christianity is well know for taking over other ideologies and presenting as if they are their own. How many pagan holidays are still celebrated?
As B.C. says, it is doubtful that we will see the end of religion soon it is too adaptive to just shrivel and die.
Brain scanning has revealed a lot the brains activity and workings and it appears that studies were being done to see the effects of religion on the brain. Apparently there are difference between religious and non-religious brains.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/religious-effect-brain-drugs-mormon-utah-reward-centre-nucleus-accumbens-a7446301.html

There is also apparently some research being done into the God gene hypothesis. Basically that the human carries a gene that makes it need to believe in something. Sounds like BS to me but who knows.

Either way as the saying goes, if it makes people happy they will go for it. Religion makes people happy.
They have someone to blame for the bad that happens, apart from the politicians.
They have someone to thank for the good things because they are not going to thank the politicians.
And they think they are going to end up winners in the end because they are going to heaven.

Ethics deals with morality and moral judgement, yes? — Sapientia

No, ethics is the philosophical study of morality and moral judgement. Tiny difference but not the same as dealing with.

You want an example? Pick any moral dilemma featuring ‘personal’ (i.e. involving direct physical harm) or ‘impersonal’ (i.e. involving indirect or remote harm) actions. — Sapientia

OK. My dog cannot move to my new house with me. I have only 2 options.
Leave it with the guy next door who just lost his dog to starvation or have it put down because there is no pet sanctuary to leave him in.

How does ethics come into the situation?

I don't know why I'm even humouring you. — Sapientia

Oh dear, have I done something to upset you. My most sincere apologizes.

The role of emotions ought to be obvious to anyone who has given it the slightest thought. Empathy? Guilt? Shame? Approval? Disapproval? Outrage? The feeling of justice or injustice?

These don't strike you as relevant? — Sapientia

No. In ethics it would be useless.

Of course through morality; or rather, through moral judgement. Emotions are essential, and diminished emotional processing or reactivity, as in, for example, psychopaths, has been shown to have an adverse effect on moral judgement. — Sapientia

The key words here are emotions and morality. I still don't understand how ethics comes into the deal.
would it be to much to ask for an example? Thank you in advance.

You want me to educate you on what you already know, but deny to save face? — Sapientia

What need could I possibly have to save face? It is not like I am going to run into you or anyone else from here on the street and get embarrassed.

I don't believe for a second that you're ignorant if the relation between emotion and ethics. — Sapientia

Honestly speaking, I am. I have the idea in my head that emotions are sort of internal, innate feelings that people have. They come into play when certain things happen to people. But I can see no relation other than through morality that they could be linked.
I suppose that ethics could study and analyze the relationships between emotions and moral behavior, it would seem counter productive to do so emotionally.

Please explain it to me. Maybe some of those that have little experience with ethics can learn something as well.

What an absurd thing to say. — Sapientia

So maybe you could explain how that would work them. Educate me.