Interesting fantasy. Have you spoken to your therapist about it? — CuddlyHedgehog

Yes, he told me to go to court and get a restriction order against you before you do something regrettable.
I'm gonna work on that tomorrow. So you had better stay away from now on.

No matter how many baths I take, you still stink, dear. — CuddlyHedgehog

Maybe it is the fact that you have your nose sticking in my ass crack so much that you are getting a bad impression of my bodily odors.

Well take a bloody bath before you come them. That should get rid of it.

Can’t stand the smell of sweaty peasants working for me, dear. — CuddlyHedgehog

Totally pretentious and all aren't we dear. Would you like to come over to the peasants place and have a cup of tea with biscuits, or sandwiches?

Please don’t. The odour is unbearable. — CuddlyHedgehog

So that is why you don't use a dictionary, you can't stand the smell of yourself after doing some work.

No and it’s quite obvious that neither did you. — CuddlyHedgehog

Oh but I did. In seventh grade it was part of a story we read. Let me do the sweaty work for you though.

Snake oil,
(medicine) any of various liquids sold as medicine (as by a travelling medicine show) but medically worthless
Communication (written or spoken) intended to deceive

I am sure you will understand now. Deary.

Anyone who can read and has half a brain will be able to compare the two and note the difference, — Sapientia

So pretend you have a whole one and compare the definitions in the dictionary.

Why don't you look it up in your Chambers English Dictionary (1998 edition)? — Sapientia

Let's try the new online one instead, although the definition is exactly the same.

pretence or (US) pretense noun 1 the act of pretending. 2 make-believe. 3 an act someone puts on deliberately to mislead. 4 a claim, especially an unjustified one • make no pretence to expert knowledge. 5 show, affectation or ostentation; pretentiousness. 6 (usually pretences) a misleading declaration of intention • won their support under false pretences. 7 show or semblance • abandoned all pretence of fair play.

When is a person who uses "pretence" as you suggest not going to be ostentatious and phony?

pretentious adj 1 pompous, self-important or foolishly grandiose. 2 phoney or affected. 3 showy; ostentatious. pretentiously adverb. pretentiousness noun.

If the people are pretending, they are pretentious. — Sir2u

The second quote above seems to indicate that you do not understand what it means to be pretentious, and are misusing the word when you want to express the meaning, "someone who pretends" — Sapientia

According to the dictionary pretense is the act of pretending, and pretentious. And a pretentious person is obviously a phony or a person pretending to be something he is not.

So if you insist that you are right show the definitions that you are using and how they differ from the ones I use. Or you could concede that you are wrong.

So anyway, go look that up in your Funk and Wagnall.

Very cute! Original? Or source? — Janus

It just popped into my head as I was getting ready to leave so I wrote it down thinking that it might make sense to someone.
It is open to interpretation to one and all, even if it is not exactly philosophical content. Or is it?

Bloody charming. — CuddlyHedgehog

Did you look up the meaning of snake oil? :cool:

Most of us understood, dear. — CuddlyHedgehog

Congratulations, here is a :clap: :clap: :clap: or 2 for you. But I doubt that you have considered everything about what was said.

Is there something about philosophy which invites or attracts a sort of pretence? — Sapientia

Was the first question, to which I eventually replied.

But to answer your original question and avoid further miss understanding, yes I think some people become pretentious. — Sir2u

The reply I received was

And here we have the pretence that my question was, "Do some people become pretentious?". — Sapientia

What I do not understand was why he was saying that there was pretence about what his question was.

If there is something about philosophy that attracts pretence, then the question must be about the people pretending. The forum cannot pretend, neither can the words in the posts.

If the people are pretending, they are pretentious.

There is nothing complicated about that.

How does his reply make sense?

People that have some philosophical knowledge might want to learn more and ask questions to do so, I would not call them pretentious.

People that have little knowledge but think they know a lot might find an opportunity here to show off, they would be the ones that are averse to answering straight forward questions and often don't ask their own questions for fear of look ridiculous. They would definitely be pretentious in my book.

Not people. You. — Sapientia

So you do not consider me to be in the category of people? Bloody charming.

I am confident that there are others with the ability to see what you do not. — Sapientia

Do a poll to find out if anyone understood what you meant.
The only thing I got from what you said is that you used the wrong word "pretence" when you should have used "self-deception".
And as I said, I did not see the point of it. Was it supposed to have been in some way explanatory of something?

Now there's a surprise. — Sapientia

I don't see how you could possibly be surprised that people don't understand what you mean.

Oh, I wouldn’t wanna come out in a rash conclusion. — CuddlyHedgehog

Put some snake oil on it then.

And here we have the pretence that my question was, "Do some people become pretentious?". Or perhaps it's just a misunderstanding. Despite the similarity in wording, pretentiousness - which is synonymous with ostentatiousness - does in fact have a different meaning to what I was getting at - which is more like self-deception. — Sapientia

I don't see the point to this.
Pretentiousness, noun, The quality of being pretentious (behaving or speaking in such a manner as to create a false appearance of great importance or worth). Syn. ostentatiousness

Pretentious, adjective, Making claim to or creating an appearance of (often undeserved) importance or distinction. Syn. ostentatious

It's curious that some responders have chosen to answer their own questions instead of my own. — Sapientia

Nothing strange about that, especially on a philosophy forum. It is like talking to yourself, you should always get the answers you want to hear.

Does anyone remember the thread at the old place that asked about the last post.

Not sure about the exact words but it went something like this I think.

If you have the last post on a thread, does it mean that you have said something so profound that none can refute you or that no one feels like answering anymore bloody stupid questions?

Oh what blankets on our bed
when we use a can of worms for thread.

I'm not saying, "Don't question", just "Question wisely". — Sapientia

What would you consider a well thought out, wise question? Is there any that you would like to ask?

Stay in the shade Tiff. Keep cool about the way life moves on, cus there ain't a damn thing you nor anyone else can do about it. Have a smiley. :smile:

Interested in agreement or disagreement, and why. — Sapientia

What could I possibly disagree with or agree with, you did not make a statement but asked a question. Oh, the question mark is missing.

You appear to have mistaken a question for an assertion, and you haven't attempted to answer it, or any of my questions for that matter. — Sapientia

No, I did not confuse a question for a statement, that seems to be unique to you. Your question contains the phrase "that which we already know" which itself is a statement.

Is there something about it which opens up for debate that which we already know — Sapientia

Don't change the subject. I asked that question because I'm interested in what others think. — Sapientia

I have not changed the subject. I too asked that question because I'm interested in what others think.

But to answer your original question and avoid further miss understanding, yes I think some people become pretentious. These people are usually the ones that post things like "Yes, I think you have that about right", "Oh you beat me to it, I was just going to post the same thing", " I could not have expressed that better myself" or sometimes just refuse to give a straight answer. I am sure you have noticed those people.

I read some book a while ago about a guy who went to an ivy league school who said that there was competition among the students to constantly ask questions and gain recognition. The point was that it put the Asian students at a disadvantage because their culture demanded that the teachers be respected and listened to, and that it was also disrespectful to the other students to force them to listen to you when there was a more learned professor in the room. — Hanover

I am sure that Plato would disagree with the orientals. I do too, even my avatar does.

Is there something about philosophy which invites or attracts a sort of pretence? — Sapientia

Is that a philosophical question, an ironical question or do you really want to know? It seems to me that if you think that we would know the answer then you also should know it. We all have dictionaries and google so why are you asking us?

Is there something about it which opens up for debate that which we already know? — Sapientia

How do you know that everyone knows this? Is it just because you say you know it that it has to be true?

Is everything really a matter of personal opinion? — Sapientia

What do you think?

An educational establishment is also a social institution. — unenlightened

And in this sense the purpose of education is to change their behavior to suit the society. Behavior as in the way they live their lives, not as in discipline.

Children do not in general approach teachers to ask them to teach; rather more so, teachers approach children and ask them to learn. This changes everything. It makes a joy into a duty. — unenlightened

Ain't that the truth. So few students nowadays want to ask questions because the fear being shown up for a dunce in front of the other dunces. And to make it worse, now we have to worry about them laughing at each other on the internet.

You've self-identified as someone who teaches various subjects - without qualifying yourself as a person in possession of knowledge about these subjects — tim wood

Does it not stand to reason, even by your own definition, that one must be in possession of knowledge to be able to impart it to others? I impart some of my knowledge to the students, it is then their job to learn it.

but that what you teach is "basic knowledge." — tim wood

As I explained before, teachers would not be able to impart all of the knowledge they possess to their students. Much as one might try to do so, not many students would be capable of learning it.

For example, a math teacher should be capable of high level equation solving, working out prime numbers to the thousandth, working out square roots . He might try to teach everything he knows but it is doubtful that he will get past the basics of math. University level math might include things like the square root of 2. A high school teacher would be able to teach about square roots but it is not really likely that the students would grasp the concepts of the square root of 2. So he teaches the basics and prepares the kids to go to university as best he can.

Suppose your living required you row your dory off the beach into the ocean to catch fish to sell and to eat. Suppose someone approached you to teach them how to fish. They might ask you what you know, and could you impart that knowledge, teach it. You might answer, "I know how to fish, and I can teach someone how to fish." — tim wood

But does the fisherman teach the person everything he knows? Would he be able, in a short time, to show the person how the tides, shore lines, water temperature, time of day, type of bait, the depth of the the water, the depth of the bait in the water, the size of the hook and line, the type of boat needed and a lot of other factors that affect the catching of different type of fish? And that is not taking into account which fish to keep and which to throw back for some reason.
Unless he was being paid very well, had plenty of time to dedicate to teaching it and that the person was really, I mean really interested in learning I doubt that his teachings would go beyond the basics. He would try to teach what the person would need to know to catch fish.

What do you know, that you can teach? — tim wood

That would be a long list.
Let's see if I can make a short list of things that are taught both in and out of school.
I am a heavy goods vehicle, heavy machine driver/operator and mechanic. I have taught, although informally, both.
I am a qualified, certified welder, gas and electric. I have trained people to do both.
I have training in technical drawing and have taught that.
I can plot multiple boat's or ship's courses on a chart using radar and GPS. Never had the chance to teach it but I am confident that I could do.
I have a Microsoft certificate that means I can give computer classes, which I am presently going. I am not going to try to teach the kids everything I know because it would be a waste of time. So I teach them the basics of computer literacy that they need to do assignment and that will be useful in university or most of the jobs they get.
I have plenty of knowledge of the English language, grammatical, written and spoken and try to teach it. Some kids just don't get the idea of being bilingual.
I have a certain amount of knowledge about sociology and psychology, not enough to say that it is university level but more than enough for a high school curriculum. I teach what is in the curriculum in a way that applies to peoples lives.

There is a lot of other stuff that I sometimes apply in short practical courses as well but time is short today.

It'll just take a bit of time for a Catholic candidate to muster a reactionary mouvement that will bury Munoz. — Akanthinos

I live in Central America, the Catholics are losing ground every day to the Evangelicals. But most of the candidates are catholic, they just don't use it as a political statement.

My understanding of a teacher is that he or she possesses knowledge.... You try to give your students basic knowledge. Is that your body of knowledge? What of Eng. Lit., grammar, writing, psych., sociology, cultural history? — tim wood

It would be impossible for most teachers to go beyond giving students anything more than the basics of their knowledge. How could a teacher that has a university level of education be expected to pass on all of that knowledge to school kids.
Being able to write a proper essay, perform math at a reasonable level, understand that people around the world do not all live the same kinds of life, know that laws exist for reasons, are all necessities, basic knowledge that is needed for students to succeed in university. This is what most teachers try to pass on.
How many kids do you know that have left high school without the basic knowledge that they are going to need to survive?

So it's up to you to say: do you make your students better in some sense with Englsh, Psych., Soc., History? Or in basic knowledge? — tim wood

What did you learn in high school? Was there anything earthshaking about it? Or was it just a basic look at the different areas of human knowledge to give you an opportunity to get a feel for what you are good at?
After leaving high school, were you prepared to go out into the real world and fend for yourself. Most people that don't want jobs at Walmart want to go to university, did you go? Were you prepared for learning at the university. If you were then you probably had good teachers that gave you the basic skills and knowledge that were necessary.
As you said too many teachers don't do a good job, but it is not always their fault. And as universities all over the world are finding out, a lot of the students are not being properly prepared to learn and study at their level.

I have, at least I believe I have, made a difference to the lives of some of my students. I doubt any teacher can claim they made a difference to all of their students. I have presently an ex student at Harvard(on a full scholarship), 2 at the university of Munich, and quiet a few at other good universities around the world including Japan and Korea. Several others have graduated from universities in France, the UK, Switzerland.
I cannot nor will not claim responsibility for any of my ex students being where they are, they got there because that was what they wanted to do. But the first person they look for when they come to visit the school is me. No, I am not bragging. Even the owner and principal are left waiting.

Not a Catholic, so won't matter. — Akanthinos

Your not a catholic so it does not matter to you?
or
This discussion is about Catholics so it does not matter?

They are taking over.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/article207342744.html

I use DOS 1.3 — Hanover

5 was the best version. Get actualized once in a while will you.

What is the name of what you teach? — tim wood

If you mean by this, what subjects do I teach, then the answer is quite a few over the years. I have worked mostly in bi-lingual schools so it is not as easy as you might think. Some of the course I have taught are;
English lit, grammar, writing.
Introduction to psychology.
Introduction to sociology.
Cultural history.

If you agree with the first part, and you're (apparently) a teacher, then what do you say the body of knowledge is that you can impart? — tim wood

Not sure exactly what you are asking here.

If "basic knowledge that will be useful in everyday life" is all you have to offer, then you have a problem. — tim wood

Critical thinking, investigation and evaluation, written and oral communication skills are some of the things I call basic knowledge. I expect my high school kids to be able to wipe their own noses and asses.

Most students are already masters of their lives - we might well call it mere survival - but it's what gets them through their days. It's what they trust and know, even if it amounts to their making virtues of their vices. — tim wood

Unfortunately they are not masters of their own lives, they only think they are. Most of them still are very dependent on mom and dad to keep their lives going. I would seriously have to disagree that most of these kids are fit to survive in the real world.
The kids today think that the internet, farcebook, twatter and so on are most important thing their is. Getting likes and followers out ways almost anything for some of them. And the sad thing is that some of them actually believe that there is nothing more they need to know than how to use these damn things.

On the basis of your description, I doubt that you have much to offer there. — tim wood

I will invite you to class one day so that you can judge from a better perspective. Mainly because there is not really a way to give a good description here.

And you forgot two: salesman and manipulator — tim wood

There are a lot more, I did not not really see the need to be exhaustive in the list. :wink:

This is true, but so general as to be useless. — jastopher

No, it is the main activity of a teacher.

Your definition of behavior is too narrow. You take it as whether they are good or bad boys and girls.

Everything that you do, from what books you pick to read to whether you pick your nose in public is part of it.

The purpose of any education is to impart ways of behaving that conform to the needs of the society.
Education in the rain forest tribe is not about sitting in a classroom learning from books but about learning what plants and animals you can eat, how to look after the forest, how to build shelters, in other words the needs of the society.

Today we need engineers and chemists, doctors and nurses, cops and politicians so the education system is geared to making people behave like them.

A teacher is a person in possession of a body of knowledge, with the skill to impart that knowledge to people who.... I have to pause here. — tim wood

I do that often as well, pause to take a deep breath. That is a reasonable take on what a teacher is supposed to be. But it goes way beyond that.
You have to be a mother, father, baby sitter, big brother sometimes as well. You also have to be a student, things change from day to day and you should be keeping up. Paying the students for doing their jobs is a job in itself, you have to be an accountant almost. You have to be a project manager to keep all of the little bits and pieces together and running smoothly and up to standards. Plus good understanding of the educational laws is most useful. Etc, etc, etc.
And you have to work hard at staying human and same.

What I'd like to hear from a candidate is a very simple statement of what he or she intends to teach, thinks important to teach, and why. — tim wood

I try to give my students basic knowledge that will be useful in everyday life. And a lot of them think that it is too much because "the information is available on google, so why should I learn it".

So, what is the purpose of education? — jastopher

To modify the behavior of those being educated.

Meeting an ex student, that hated me, on the street and getting a warm thank you

It's just that you should not let a hamster debate with a frog. Why don't you try a toad with a rat?

Is there a _____________ in the forum. We need one to ________________.

The Greeks won the Great Tomato War of 1386.

It makes _________ to be ______________

There is a very small light at the end of the tunnel or it's an incoming train and I am in the outbound lane. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

As long as you as are not going backwards on the inbound lane, no problem. :grin:

Somebody got the last word in the last forum. — Purple Pond

Because we all got locked out. you cannot continue the game without access to it.

Can a sentence end with the? — Lone Wolf

Did you not write this sentence ending with the? :smile:

The morality of bio-technology used to improve the human beyond the scope of normal humanity.