And is this a serious consideration worthy of bringing up here? No. — Sapientia

Based on the fact the the American want to keep this from happening to them and that the English have already let it happen, maybe yes.

I'm not sure whether you're making a bad joke — Sapientia

If that is what you want to call it. Maybe I could have worded it a bit better.
Who rules England? The government.
Who backs up the government? The military.
They don't need a coup because they already run the place, and could the citizens do anything about if they wanted to. No

Yes, a reproach for a moral lapse. That's what is not needed. — T Clark

It does not say anything about moral lapse, so either find a definition that does include it or leave it alone.

If there is no moral judgment, society's reaction to unwanted behavior is more likely to be effective. Punishment, retribution, and revenge make some people feel better, but they are not the best way to handle crime and other damaging behavior. — T Clark

Punishment, retribution, and revenge are not part of moral judgement either. That would be immoral.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. That's the way it should be. Justice, fairness, and social control are different from punishment, retribution, and revenge. One focuses on effectiveness in protecting the public, the other focuses on moral and emotional satisfaction. — T Clark

So your local legal system deals out revenge to criminals?

I bet making it illegal to not wear a helmet at all times would save more lives, and prevent a lot of head injuries. Don't you want to protect everyone from head injuries? Leaving bed without a helmet ought to be illegal. — Wosret

I am 100% percent in favor of this idea. Draft the bill tonight and we can present to all of the governments in the morning. It is obvious that there are a lot of people walking around that have suffered grievous injuries to the point where their thinking is very unclear.

The English army haven't taken over control of the country since the times of Oliver Cromwell, around 360 years ago. That it would happen again any time soon is not a realistic prospect and should not be taken seriously. — Sapientia

I can't resist.
Of course it is not going to happen, even if they are shit sick of the idiots that rule them. They don't have any guns and the bloody government knows it.

You don't have to blame someone in order to hold them responsible for their actions. — T Clark

Blame:
An accusation that you are responsible for some lapse or misdeed
A reproach for some lapse or misdeed

Blame leads to punishment, retribution, and revenge. — T Clark

No, being responsible for something leads to punishment, retribution, and revenge.

What's needed is justice, fairness, and effective social control. — T Clark

Is that not what happens in the justice system when someone is judged to be responsible for some act that is considered to be against public well being?

As long as self defense doesn't infringe on the rights of others to live and be free of violence. — MysticMonist

Self defense cannot infringe on the rights of others without becoming offensive and stopping being self defense.

I was wondering about the possibility of military takeover in the US, would be possible. Some argue that the constitution provides a method of prevention. It seems that places where there are gun restrictions do seem to have quite a few military coups.

https://www.quora.com/Why-hasnt-a-military-coup-happened-in-Europe-or-the-USA

https://historyguy.com/coups_in_europe_since_world_war_two.htm

I don't know exactly what it means, if the public having guns does stop the military or not, but I think it would be damned hard for the American military to take over if they wanted to. How long would it take for the English army to have complete control of the country?

What's the philosophical rationale for an individual right to bear arms? — MysticMonist

Why would one be necessary?

all of whom disagree with me (and more than that, think that I'm an evil maniac), — Thorongil

I have had that feeling too. Silly me think it was just about me.

If you insist on playing this game, I guess banning guns makes all the rape, murder, and theft that people would have otherwise been able to ward off with a gun okay. I'm sure they'll find some solace in being scapegoats for "the greater good" and the moral consciences of The Philosophy Forum mod team. — Thorongil

Maybe we could arrange for people with those good intentions to go to the US. Then let them go around and take all of the guns off the bad guys. Once they have done that I am sure that the Americans will feel safe enough to hand over their guns.

Were the The Kardashians trashy when Deep Space 9 conceived Cardassians?? — Bitter Crank

Probably yes, although I am not exactly well up on either of their histories. But if you want to become famous the Cardassians will get you nowhere. And the kartrashians are just about as far into space as the Cardassians.

And what do the Cardassians think of all this? — Baden

Kartrashians don't think.

By the way, I notice that your spelling and grammar are showing signs of improvement. Perhaps my grammar policing has had an effect, after all. Keep up the good work. — Sapientia

I told you, if you had bothered to read my post, that as soon as you stopped pointing out stupid little things that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic being discussed I would stop making them.

If you intend to continue with your silly ways then I shall continue to do everything I can to make you look like the pathetic little nitwit that you are.

Bey bye.

What is a joke?

What is philosophy?

What is an oxymoron?

So, slippery slope fallacy and false dilemma. — Sapientia

I thought you said that you were finished with the discussion. But you keep on talking rubbish.

Let's not propagate this unreasonable belief. — Sapientia

Oh dear, goodness me, what a disaster. A bunch of philosophy forum members became infected with the absolutely ridiculous urge to go out and support the gun toting bandits that think they still live in the wild west.
And what is even worse/better, they have decided to start a protest against the US government in the form of a permanent ban of all American politicians that do not openly support the removal of all gun controls from the forum.

Who the hell is it going to be propagated to? :P

Get over these pathetic snippets of quasi-philosophy, morals derived from ignorance and grammar policing.

I just hope ArguingWAristotleTiff didn't see that last comment. I'd much rather we talked about pumpkins. :) — Baden

She would probably ask how you want it served?

That's what makes you believe in fairy tales like Relativity and Quantum Theories. :) — Hachem

Not sure where the faeries are there but OK.

Good. — Sapientia

Glad to see that you agree with me.

Adios amigo.

Some rights are not worth having. If the right to have a gun effectively translates into the right to live in a more violent society and thus the right to suffer a greater risk of harm therein, you can take that right and stick it where the sun don't shine (with all due respect). — Baden

For the Americans all of their rights are connected and erosion of one might lead to complete removal of others. For them it is all or nothing, and they don't want nothing.

Of course, if it were merely a technical question. But then, how would scientists make the distinction between those "sound" waves and other kinds of phenomena? Like gravitational waves for instance. — Hachem

That would be a scientific question that would be made on measurements they make and evidence that the come up from observations.

The metaphysics of space is never very far away, and that is something that concerns philosophers also. — Hachem

I doubt that the philosophers would do more than muddy the waters arguing over the meanings of the words the scientist use.

But would something like the LIGO detector notice anything going on in space? Like the LIGO detector, I have no idea whether it would react or not. — Hachem

No idea at all either, try one of the many scientific forums maybe.

but before that, nothing? — Hachem

I suppose that sound could be transmitted through the gas cloud, but I have no idea if the density would be sufficient to do so.

Would we hear it, or at least feel it? — Hachem

If they were close enough that parts of the disintegrating comets hit the earth yes, if not no.
By parts I guess you would include expanding gas and solid material that could collide with the earth's atmosphere.

That's what I was referring to, genius. — Sapientia

It is a shame that you did not read the original post. It was comparing the English way of thinking about rights to the American way of thinking. I explained that the English had more historical that personal memories of the fight for the rights that they enjoy where as the Americans have a lot of personal memories of them.

"England Is old, they people have forgotten the fights for freedom that happened years or centuries ago."
The reference is to people alive today, not centuries ago. I did not need to be around centuries ago to see it today.

If you fail to understand what people are saying to you, try asking for clarification of the point in question. It might make your life easier.

If you are going to insist on nitpicking silly little details instead of talking about the topic under discussion. I have no intention of replying.

cheerio old chap.

You think Apollonian/Dionysian are opposites or are they complementary? — Cavacava

Both, you cannot have a magnet without both poles.
Beauty is not appreciated without ugliness'

Opposites are what make the world go round.

Ying - Yang

Of course wosret is right, but I think of Apollonian as cold hard reason, blue as a the blade of a sword, masculine, phallic, ironic and Dionysian as earthy green/brown/grey, the earth as mother, soft, feminine, creative and irrational. — Cavacava

Don't get yourself turned on about it, he only asked about the colors.

I think that black and white to show their opposing forces would be better. There are no other colors that show the extremes as well as black and white.

You weren't alive centuries ago either. — Sapientia

Your ignorance is astounding!

I am not talking about centuries ago. From 1965 to 69 I went to a segregated school. In case you do not know what that means, it was a school where only white students were allowed to study, the black students went to a shack down the road. I lived and rode the school buses that were forced by Desegregation Laws to go through the black neighborhoods to pick up the black kids and take them to black schools. It was no fun at all being spat upon for the color of your skin, no matter what color it was. There were many places in the southern states that were much worse than the small town I lived in.

Have you ever seen a film called Mississippi Burning. Watch it and then tell I could not have personal experience of those things.

I don't like the patronising tone in that kind of comment. — Sapientia

Hang on a moment,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I really don't care. Suck it up. ( Oh dear, did I let my emotions show again?)

It's not a game of Top Trumps. The point is that I haven't forgotten their importance, despite your offensive suggestion. — Sapientia

You may have not forgotten their importance, but you have not lived any of them. A lot of Americans still have the feelings of hard won rights running through their veins. They or their parents lived those times go to sleep at night dreaming of them. They, the memories, are a living part of so many of the people lives.

And you, "Yes I read about that in history class and I understand that because of those people 10 centuries ago I now am a free man."

Did you ever hit the streets to protest anything, have you ever sent a letter to your legal representatives in the government asking for changes? Have you ever even tried to do something to make a change in the society in which you live?

Unless you have made a mark in history or participate in some way in it then you do not have personal memories of it. You have historical memories things that you have learned from books. And that is one of the biggest differences between you and the yanks.

No, I for one have not forgotten the First Barons War, Magna Carter, The Second Barons War, the Provisions of Oxford, the English Civil War, the Glorious Revolution, the Bill of Rights, Abolitionism & the Slavery Abolition Act 1833, the Suffragettes, the Representation of The People Act 1918, 1928 & 1969, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the International Bill of Human Rights, The Sexual Offences Act 1967 (decriminalised homosexuality), the Equal Pay Act 1970, and so on. — Sapientia

Are you really that old?
We all, at least those with some education, remember these. Historically.
Have you every lived without the right to vote? No, you have always had it.
Have you ever been denied the right to go to any public school that is near where you live, just because of the color of your skin or because you were poor. I doubt it.

There are a lot of Americans alive today with those memories and they are personal not historical memories.

Yeah, you're supposed to say, "what's updog?" to which I say, "not much dog, how bout you?" — Hanover

HaHaHa. No one fell for it. As Tiff points out there is no way people around here are going to answer if you don't give them a cue. (not clue)

I would be willing to bet that almost everyone that read your post googled it, and the rest thought you were talking shit so they ignored you.

Back to the drawing boards old man. :D

And my dog is not really lazy, she is hyper active.

Been edited.

If you were a carpenter and 60% of your work was being thrown away, you still get paid; — Frank Barroso

If that happens then there is no way you can be a carpenter. Just having a hammer does not qualify you as a carpenter, it is the quality of your work that does.

Get another job where you cannot screw up so much.

Play along! — Hanover

No man, she is downdog, she doesn't even want to play.

Have any of you ever seen updog? — Hanover

Not recently, the stupid mutt does want to get her lazy ass up off the porch.

Sometimes you truly do not understand the value of something you have until it's gone. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

That is what I tried to explain, that the English have nothing to loose with any more controls because they never had the freedoms to begin with.

Evil will never dim our country's light of goodness and of her people who are Thankful to be able to call her home. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

And it never should.

I always preferred the light bulb joke with the Irish in it. Not because of the joke but the answer.

Question, how do you keep a bunch of idiots quiet?

Sir, I wonder sometimes if my children will ever understand what those before us fought and died for. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Probably not, unless they make a chat group about it.

I have to be honest, I don't understand it all myself.
I know my dad served in the British merchant navy during the war. I know that he was in several conveys that were attacked. I know that they were all fighting to rid the world of a monstrous plague called the nazis. I still remember when I was six, asking why there were houses missing along some roads and being told that a bomb had hit it. I remember my grand mother telling us that the garden shed used to be the place they slept at night and even then I could see the fear she felt when she talked about it.

There were plenty of veterans around then, young old men that lived in mangled bodies, I saw a few more of them as a teenager while Vietnam was churning out death.

But I never lived any of the war. The suffering was second hand.

The US is still young, and the pleasures of freedom are still fresh in the air. England Is old, they people have forgotten the fights for freedom that happened years or centuries ago.

I talked to an old man that had fought in both wars. He told me that not even those that went to war really understood what they were fighting for. Even when they were told that they were fighting for own freedom a lot of them did not know why they fought for something that they already had.

As a wise man once said.
"We pay a high price for our freedom, sometimes we pay with our lives"

We are being tested and we will rise to the challenge — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Damn right we will. (Y)

Could you be alluding to some sort of neurotic insecurity of the masculine man? — Posty McPostface

Not really, more of a Freudian thing. Super-ego - ego - id type of conflict. Most people bend to the external pressures just to have a peaceful life. And external pressure is always changing. There are still people that think having a big car is a sign of masculinity, but others think that having your underwear hanging out of your pants is.

The only fields that seem to still entail a healthy sense of masculinity are doctors and engineers to some degree. — Posty McPostface

There are many more female doctors and engineers now that there were before, is that because they have become more masculine? Very doubtful.

What I'm saying is that what was once understood as healthy expressions of masculinity or femininity, have lost their meaning due to work only being understood as the process of the accumulation of wealth or money-making. I wish I were wrong on that note though. — Posty McPostface

I think you are wrong. It is probably because they have found that in many cases a women is equal to a man when it comes to getting the job done. How that makes the guys feel any less masculine I have no idea though.
Work nowadays is, for a lot of people, trying to get by not getting rich. That is why so many women are out there instead of being housewives. Not that I think that women are should be stuck with that job.

I used to be the manager of a transport business, and one of the best works I had there was a women. Changing and repairing truck tires, swapping out busted springs, or welding heavy metal never stopped her from proving how capable she was. If only she had learned not to take her shirt off for washing up along side the men, I might have made her my assistant. :-#

So, what's the deal with expressing masculinity?
Does masculinity vary from individual to individual and why, if so? — Posty McPostface

Society expects men to be masculine, just as it expects women to be feminine. It is part of their folkways and mores.
Expression of both varies from country to country, time period to time period and even religion. So it would affect individuals greatly.

I have grown out a rather nice beard and I feel rather proud of it. — Posty McPostface

You would go down well in muslin countries right now, but a lot of people in the western world look upon them with disfavor. I have a beard and I have it because I like it, don't give a shit whether people think it makes me look masculine or not.

Do the over-masculine or machos just need some love and care in their lives from women? — Posty McPostface

No, most of the time they are just too tied up with themselves trying to please others.