Pile of 2-stones sits on a red square. Close by, pile of 3-stones sits on a green square.

Seeing pile-of-2-stones and pile-of-3-stones, would you give each pile the same label? — ucarr

I doubt that many would call two or three stones a pile, but who knows. The same applies here as I said above, if the piles of stones already had a label there would be no need to give them one. Nothing has numbers as part of their make up, numbers were invented by man so that he could work out how the universe works.

If it were discovered that Germany has already established Fluxmax-stones = 3-stones, would the equation 2-stones = Fluxmax-stones have to be changed to 2-stones ≠ Fluxmax-stones? — ucarr

That is sort of like asking if the cowshit you found was discovered to come from a bull would we have to call it NOT COWSHIT.
No, we would just call it bullshit.

And of course we see numbers everywhere, we put them there.

There's a stone sitting on a red square. Close by, there's a stone sitting on a green square. A person sees them and gives them a label. Label = 2-stones. — ucarr

Giving them a label is the key there, if the number label where part of the stone no one will need to "give" them anything

Do you think 2-stones can be replaced with Fluxmax-stones and would make no difference? — ucarr

Of course it could be replaced with anything, as long as it is universally accepted. Fluxmax-stones could quite easily be 2-stones in some sort of technical language.

Whatever they are called is because of human constructed language, not because of stones having built in numbers.

Ever read a biology book? — ucarr

Yes.

You've been debating me about pure math & how it's uncoupled from the material world — ucarr

No, I cannot remember even mentioning it. We were discussing the materialistic qualities of numbers, which is no existent.

Human concepts are based on observations of surrounding natural forms. — ucarr

Which natural forms are the base for books? On which natural form is animal training based?

And how does this all intertwine with the OP?

Concept - Philosophy - an idea or mental picture of a group or class of objects formed by combining all their aspects. -- The Apple Dictionary — ucarr

But it is not always necessary to have physical representations.

Consider a) Mental representations of material objects; b) material representations of concepts

Which comes first? — ucarr

I would think that it would be impossible to have a man made physical object without there being a concept on which to base it.
But it would be impossible to form a concept of something natural without having at least some of the characteristics being known.

I'm saying that number symbols refer to & derive meaning from material things whose set of attributes includes one particular attribute I call number. All of this verbiage is an attempt to say material objects are numericalizable because they have a built-in property of being movable, which is to say, positionable. — ucarr

645,798,845,635,345,665,332,313,464,655,876,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

If numbers derive meaning from material things, then the number above either has no meaning or a meaning that is unknown. Which do you think it is.

Numbers do not represent objects they specify the quantity of objects, the length of object, the weight of objects. But not the objects themselves.

If I remember Battleship correctly, there is a plastic platform full of holes, the grid where a player's battleship moves to various positions. — ucarr

Before that was invented we used to play on 2 pieces of paper. Draw lines with a pencil to form a grid, letters on the top numbers down the side. But they decided to make easier and dumb down the people. But they both are only physical representations of concepts. The location C12 is not a physical thing, ask any kid that learns about map coordinates or Excel in school.

Yes, number symbols & words are signs that refer to material things. — ucarr

Could you then please indicate to me where I can appreciate a nice looking number 69. I doubt that you can.


This is the image of a Greek road sign. Is it a physical number? No, it is only the paint on a piece of metal that has been manipulated so at to form what is commonly accepted as the visual representations of the numbers 6 and 9. The paint is physical, the metal is physical but the idea is still an abstract.

Numbers do not refer to physical things either, they refer to the quantity(another abstract) of physical objects.

Are you saying the positional grid, a material thing, possesses the property of number? — ucarr

The positional grid is not a material thing, it is an abstract. And numbers are also abstract ideas that have physical representations or icons so that dumb people like most of us can use the concepts.

Just like an word does, they represent ideas. Writing words and numbers down does not make them physical objects, it just makes it easier to transmit ideas.
Try playing telegraph with a few friends using a complicated idea, see if the idea can be passed on accurately.

Material Numbers – because a material object can hold a position, perhaps we can understand that any material object has a built-in property of number. The number property of a material object is its ability to afford a slot wherein a set of possible numbers gives value to its position within an array of other material objects in interrelationship. — ucarr

Did you ever play battleship? The numbers are part of the positional grid, not properties of the object.

RIP Gary Brooker

I hadn't noticed before "Flying high in the sky" instead of "Blotted out from the sky" which, beside Mick's clear vocal, makes more sense. "Mistake?" Maybe ... — 180 Proof

Yep, that's the one I heard and saw. Maybe Mick's voice is the reason for it, but you can find the lyrics all over the internet.

Did you notice the mistake in the video?

But we've just established that at a certain speed only distance is metered. So if there isn't much traffic, a taxi driver can increase his daily income if he speeds to get more fares for the day. — Nils Loc

Agreed, but this would then depend on variables such as final location, route taken, distance from starting point, time of day. It would not be standard set of variables for each customer.

There would also be limits imposed in some places on speed of vehicles. I don't know if it is still true but the cab company my mother worked for had speed regulators on all of their cars, many companies had them.

But one thing that is almost always true, the cabby is not going to lose money. He just has to find a way to maximize the number of trips he makes.

I am not a hundred percent sure about the way you describe the idea, but it sounds like an idea I read in a science fiction series some years ago. I think it was called "Dire Earth".

You havden't done your homework — Agent Smith

and you did not read the article.

That's why you're objecting to the claim that it's a paradox. — Agent Smith

That is why you are claiming it is a paradox.

Taxi fare is not calculated by the drivers hurrying to reach the destination because if he goes to fast the customers are in the cab only a short time and pay less. It would not make sense for him to do so.

Don't bother to answer. :smirk:

Just google it! — Agent Smith

I already did that, and provided a link to the information.

If you cannot do the same, then I think that you have no case to fight and that the discussion has ended.

I bet they are not happy when someone has a heart attack in those pranks.

I did my own investigations into the matter - distance it is, not time. — Agent Smith

Show me where you found this.

Does it make sense for the payer's calculations to be based on distance while the payee's is based on time? — Agent Smith

But both amounts are calculated using the same method, so this cannot be true.
The payer's bill is calculated on the amount of time it takes the payee to travel the distance, he is not paying just for the distance traveled.

As I said before the two just appear to be different because of point of view, there is no paradox there.

It seems that the word "paradox" has a much broader definition than just contradictions. — Agent Smith

Yes, some people use it to describe things that don't make sense. But I cannot think of how to justify its use here. Can you?

Even so, the taxi fare: is it for distance or is it for time?

Both?
Distance = speed×time — Agent Smith

It is explained more or less in the article I posted a link to. Both count.

If a taxi driver covers 2 miles in 5 minutes he might earn less than if he made the same journey in 6 minutes. That would balance out if he could make more trips. It would all depend on the setup of the meter.

Doesn't look good on the resume. — Paine

Do you think politicians really care about things like that? :wink:

However, the meter's calculations are still based on how far the taxi would've travelled at some predefined speed. — Agent Smith

So you do not have a paradox. At least not the one you stated.

Neither part actually contradicts the other.

I suppose having a green thumb from the experience is unlikely in either event. — Paine

Brown maybe!! :lol:

Politicians are famous for having their thumbs in many pies and for having that in places where the sun never shines.

You pay for distance, but the cabbie charges you for (his/her) time. — Agent Smith

You pay to be taken somewhere. Taxi meters are not calibrated just to take into account the distance traveled, but the time is also taken into account. Have you never noticed that if you ask a cab to wait for you for a few minutes the meter keeps on ticking?

If he takes longer than expected the bill would go up, if he goes to fast the bill for the same distance would be less.

https://auto.howstuffworks.com/taxi-meter1.htm

What's a paradox for you? — Agent Smith

The same as it is for most people I suppose.
A statement starting with something apparently true that leads to counterintuitive or unacceptable conclusions.

Your statement is just a description of what happens sometimes.

The paradox: The passengers pays for distance traveled, the cabby drives as if you paid for his/her time. — Agent Smith

No paradox at all, just different points of view on what is happening.

What are user avatars at all if not that same thing, an icon, a little graphic, to represent you? — Pfhorrest

Ain't that the truth mate.

But what does mine say about me?

We're so busy with shit that we forget that life is full of opportunities. — gikehef947

Yep, but maybe some of that shit are the opportunities we don't recognize. :wink:

https://www.viator.com/Turks-and-Caicos-tourism/d963-r21198238331-s227187731?supci=-1&m=28353&supag=21198238331&supsc=kwd-330189764055&supai=275956668955&supap=&supdv=c&supnt=nt%3Ag&suplp=9069970&supli=&supti=kwd-330189764055&tsem=true&supci=kwd-330189764055&supap1=&supap2=&gclid=Cj0KCQiA-qGNBhD3ARIsAO_o7ykwGd5dLmao69IcxNj5_flQnPwIL8EgO72Pz1fbZ5I4nBSP2vvw50MaAqOUEALw_wcB


https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Products-g147395-a_contentId.40336399815+761487554-Turks_and_Caicos.html

So you are talking about neurons, but they do not function like transistors, they are just the wiring.

The synapses would be the transistors, filtering the data, and they do get created and changed according to the use of the brain.

"Comitting to memory" and "Remembering" and other process some of which I might describe as: "learning" — Ken Edwards

Are these conscious activities then that create fatty transistors?

Bricks and stones or mountains and valleys and fatty conductors exist in the real word and and are frequently millions of years old and obviously could not have been created by " consciousness" or by any other human or animal mental activity. — Ken Edwards

But it is a fact that brains do create themselves up to a certain point. That is why all brains are different. The connections between neurons are created as necessary.

And maybe we shouldn't give advice if we are someone who posts more than twice a day on social media. — Yohan

There you go, you are learning.

Perhaps I shouldn't have shared my own thoughts on advice until I have been living them consistently. — Yohan

See, I do give good advice even if I do post more than one post a day.

what the hell should I do with my life? — John McMannis

The simplest answer is just live it. That is not the same as existing through it.

You have only one life so you need to enjoy it. Make that your objective.

The first thing you need to do is figure out exactly what would make you happy. Making the missus content, having your own place, having kids, keeping up with the classmates seem to be the list you have created.

What does the missus REALLY want?

Have you examined the pro's and con's of your and her "needs/wishes"

Having your own house is not cheap nor always convenient. Apart from mortgage payments there is also maintenance to take into account. If you are not a DIY'er then it can be expensive getting simple things done. The housing markets fluctuate, what you pay today might not be anyway near its value in 10 years. And a house can also act as an anchor. If you need to move to a better job sight, it can get complicated doing it in a hurry with a house that no one wants to pay your asking price for.

The same thing can basically be said about kids. They are high maintenance objects. You cannot just pick up and move them to a new school without causing them difficulties. I know because I went to 13 different schools in 3 countries.

Keeping up with the friends sucks. Just because they are doing something with their life does not mean that the same type of life is right for you. Hell it might not even be right for them and they will be divorcing sooner or later.

Work out a compromise, a plan with your wife, something that you both agree on and that, taking into consideration the fucked up world in which we live, would be possible.

Something like this;
This year, sort out the job/financial situation.
Find a way to make a better wage. Some places pay better for doing the same work if you are good at what you do.
Look for a cheaper place to live. Making a sacrifice for a couple of years might put enough money in the bank to help finding a house.
Maybe looking in another town would give the two of a better chance at both and she might not need to work so hard.

Next year, ................

Enough, I am not going to lay out a life plan for you.

Or you could buy an old school bus and take her on a world tour by working for gas and food.

"Only when the last tree has been cut down, and the last fish caught, will we realize that we cannot eat money" (proverb).

Well, strictly speaking you can eat money, it is just not very pleasant tasting and has minimal nutritional value. But anyway, most of us are well aware that money is not much good as a foodstuff regardless of how many trees there are or fish there are. I mean, there's really no relationship between how many trees one has cut down and how many fish one has caught and one's knowledge of the inedibility of money, so far as I can see. — Bartricks

When the trees are cut down and the fish caught as is done today, it produces money. The idea is that we try to keep the trees and fish because we cannot eat the money we get from them.

I think that it might not be applicable to every situation, but it is not meant to anyway. But it is true.

Would it be possible to complain about people wasting my time with their petty complaints?

But I have some to add anyway.

It is getting cold tonight, down to 26 centigrade.

El bloody electric bill is going up again next month. I have not had time to finish installing the solar power system.

Asshole neighbor's stupid dogs will not shut up.

I think I will go over to the Thank You! thread now. To give thanks to the gods that I only have to get to the end of November to start my vacation.

I think that most of Europe will probably laugh their arses off. Most of think that the gringos are dumbasses anyway and that would be the proof of it. :lol:

The duck will not want to do something for the men, but for the ducks, just as the penguin will want to do something for the penguins. — gikehef947

So what it says in the bible is wrong, because it definitely says men in there, not ducks.

Think about it carefully. Why are the chosen people not ducks? — gikehef947

OK, you win. The grand prize for dumb-ass question of the year goes to gikehef947.

I have never seen any evidence to indicate that something like that might be true and I doubt that you have either.
If you think about it though, the chosen people made in the image of god it might be true. But it might not be a good idea to think about it to much, it might be blaspheme to do so. Waddle, waddle, quack quack.

You already answered your own question in your own quotes of the bible.

- Colossians 3:23-24. Whatever you do, work at it with your whole being, for the Lord and not for men, because you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as your reward. — gikehef947

Why would a duck want to do anything for men?

Maybe they are, according to them. Who the hell knows, or even cares.