Here's one, a cartoon encouraging "domestic terrorism"?

And we used the "nuclear bomb" of financial measures against them. — ChatteringMonkey

The financial measures are always overstated, because for Putin this is an existential endeavor. He will put nearly everything on the line and only won't dare to touch the pool of reservists in the Moscow and St. Petersburgh region. But ethnic minorities, they can be thrown to the meatgrinder.

We are at war, what do you expect? — ChatteringMonkey

We are not in war. In war, the missiles would be flying into the city you or I live in. That's not happening. Basically there's a term in Finnish for what we are in now: harmaa aika, basically "grey time" as these things aren't black and white. And likely Russia will also want to have the time to continue like this.

That Russia would just say, go ahead Europe, you can freeze all our foreign assets, throw us out of the global banking system, give financial and military support to our enemy we are at war with? — ChatteringMonkey

And when Russia attacks an non-aligned country that doesn't pose a threat to it, when NATO wasn't on the table (even Germany made this absolutely clear prior to the February 2022 invasion), and Russia breaks dozens of international agreements starting from the UN charter, we shouldn't respond?

Don't lose touch of what is the reason and what is the consequence here.

I mean, back then the laws professed towards women were much less favorable towards women, and how did they (men) get punished, if at all, once committing such crimes (rape/molestation of women)? — Shawn

In Sweden the first legislation protecting women was given by king Magnus Ladulås in 1280. In Finnish, the term use is naisrauha, direct translation is women peace, legislation was given to protect women from harassment, including sexual harassment. Basically it forbid to have any sex without being married and stated adultery also be illegal (which was naturally already there). Thanks to the legislation, a women didn't have to have a witness to a rape. Hence these legal attitudes go a long way. And punishment? You could get the death penalty, as typically for Medieval times you could get for many things.

Yet I think that we should notice that even today in societies where women don't have rights and don't participate in the workforce, they are protected. At least in the eyes of the societies themselves. Every woman or girl is someone's daughter. And when the women marries, then there is her husband and his family.

An American saying how it is. Just love the constant honking in support of the cars going by.

I've said that Musk will be the most hated guy in the US for a long time. And likely he might stay for six months and then has to retire to look after his collapsed businesses (that likely will be saved by the Trump government).

Yet the project is clear: Elon brakes everything, does the "savings", then afterwards Republicans can just say it has already been done, that it wasn't them.

Actually comes to mind how politicians in Europe blame always the EU and Brussels for every painful decision they make. With the exception that the EU doesn't demolish the institutions of government like a madman.

Trump is not going to side with Russia in attacking Europe. — ChatteringMonkey

That attack might not take the form which it took in February 24th 2022. Please understand that the objective is to 1) destroy the Transatlantic alliance and 2) weaken the EU. With these objectives Russia gains power and influence over Europe and then can work on enlarging it's sphere of influence.

And Russia isn't going to attack Europe on its own, because they can't.

Non of this is real. — ChatteringMonkey

It is real alright. I can list just like @jorndoe the hybrid attacks now being implemented against Europe, but if don't care about that. Yet the truth is the following:

(CSIS) Russia is engaged in an aggressive campaign of subversion and sabotage against European and U.S. targets, which complement Russia’s brutal conventional war in Ukraine. The number of Russian attacks in Europe nearly tripled between 2023 and 2024, after quadrupling between 2022 and 2023. Russia’s military intelligence service, the Main Directorate of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation (or GRU), was likely responsible for many of these attacks, either directly by their own officers or indirectly through recruited agents. The GRU and other Russian intelligence agencies frequently recruited local assets to plan and execute sabotage and subversion missions. Other operations relied on Russia’s “shadow fleet,” commercial ships used to circumvent Western sanctions, for undersea attacks.

The data indicate that Russia poses a serious threat to the United States and Europe and that the Russian government, including President Vladimir Putin, cannot be trusted. Roughly 27 percent of the attacks were against transportation targets (such as trains, vehicles, and airplanes), another 27 percent were against government targets (such as military bases and officials), 21 percent were against critical infrastructure targets (such as pipelines, undersea fiber-optic cables, and the electricity grid), and 21 percent were against industry (such as defense companies). Many of these targets had links to Western aid to Ukraine, such as companies producing or shipping weapons and other matériel to Ukraine. Russia also used a variety of weapons and tactics. The most common (35 percent) involved explosives and incendiaries. Other weapons and tactics included blunt or edged instruments (27 percent), such as anchors used to cut undersea fiber-optic cables; electronic attack (15 percent); and the weaponization of illegal immigrants (8 percent).

I think he says that because we keep pretending like we are not in the war, i.e. that we're only providing help "to protect Ukraines sovereignty". — ChatteringMonkey

Giving arms to a belligerent isn't the same as being in war. That we've learnt from the Cold War. He simply says this to justify his action to attack Ukraine and continue the war in Ukraine. The lie that Ukraine is ruled by Neo-Nazi drug users flies only so far.

But yes we need to find a workable security arrangement for Ukraine, I do agree with that because otherwise you have the same problem in a few years. — ChatteringMonkey

Not according to the Trump people. Putin is totally reliable for them. And that should tell us Europeans a lot.

And then what, we end up in a Weimar Germany kind of situation? You don't think that is something we should be trying to avoid at all cost? — ChatteringMonkey

I think sooner or later the paper money system will collapse. But it's not the end of the World. Debts are then either defaulted or repaid by inflation and those that do have their savings in bonds and cash will lose that wealth. But then life goes on.

And I don't think Trump is doing Putin's bidding, he just wants out because he thinks that is in US interests... and for that he needs to find some common ground with Putin. — ChatteringMonkey

He isn't, really?

If you listen for example to Tucker Carlson interviewing Steve Witkoff, Trump's real estate friend turned negotiator, you can clearly see the wonderful relationship Trump has with Putin. After praising Donald Trump for his wisdom, Witkoff praises Putin several times and says that Putin isn't a bad guy. Witkoff tells to Carlson how Putin has prayed for Trump and how Putin presented a picture of Trump for Witkoff to take to Trump and how moved the American President is from the action. This is nearly something like the US being a negotiator between Israel and Hamas, with the role of Hamas given to Ukraine, the problematic party here that doesn't get it and is disrespectful. And that Ukraine is totally doomed and Russia will otherwise triumph over it.

And the EU? Witkoff tells that the Europeans are simplistic, that it's just all just posture and a pose. And Wittkoff states that with 100% Russia does not want to "march through Europe". Oh, how benevolent and friendly Russia is and how it just wants peace.

Sorry, but that praising and incredible bullshit made me feel like vomiting. Yet with appeasement you do get peace. Putin can have it all. Surrender is the easiest way to get peace. That is the fucking "common ground" the US is pushing basically here.

Trump wants some lucrative deal from Russia and the Nobel peace prize and doesn't care a shit what happens to Ukraine or NATO. For Trump his personal interests are also naturally the interests of the US. He is the US president, after all.

And if you say I'm wrong, that this is the way to negotiate with Russian, then please tell why ALL the previous US negotiators that brokered the nuclear limitation talks or even the kilotons to kilowatts -agreement with the Russians said something else. They all repeat the similar story that you have to be tough as the other side, the Russians, are tough negotiators, and one shouldn't trust, and if you trust, verify.

Putin wants a neutered and broken up Ukraine and after that he will go against the EU with the help of Trump.

Europe truly needs to gets it's act together and understand what a threat the Trump-assisted Putin is for peace in our continent.

Are people in the US more interested in entertainment than facts/ethics? — jorndoe

I think things can be changing now:

The progressive MeidasTouch Podcast has cemented its position as America’s most-streamed show, amassing nearly 125 million downloads and views in just one month—a staggering leap that more than doubles its February numbers. This surge marks a dramatic shift in the podcasting landscape, as the left-leaning platform continues to outpace The Joe Rogan Experience, which trailed with 64 million downloads. MeidasTouch first claimed the top spot earlier this year, ending Rogan’s long-standing reign

(Newsweek) MeidasTouch, a progressive media network that is highly critical of President Donald Trump, has been named YouTube's most popular news and politics channel over the past three days, just ahead of Fox News.

Finland and Denmark issued travel warnings to the US.

I find the Finnish the warning quite sound:

In Finland, a new advisory warns that if a traveller’s gender marker in their passport does not match the gender confirmed at birth, U.S. authorities may deny entry. The Finnish Ministry of Foreign Affairs advises travellers to confirm all entry conditions with the U.S. authorities in advance. The Finnish guidance also notes that Finland does not issue passports with an “X” gender designation. Dual citizens with such documents are advised to check eligibility with the U.S. before travelling.

The Danish one is similar:

The Danish Ministry of Foreign Affairs has added a new section to its U.S. visa guidance. It advises applicants that U.S. authorities only accept two gender categories on visa applications: male or female. If a traveller’s passport includes an “X” gender marker or their legal gender differs from their birth sex, the ministry recommends contacting the U.S. embassy before travelling.

But it's not only this. As the German report tells, the border officials can be mini-dictators and the victims aren't just sexual minorities:

in Western Europe there hasn't been a serious threat for 80 years, and as a consequence the military has suffered. — ChatteringMonkey

This simply isn't true. During the Cold War, there was a credible deterrence against the Soviet threat. The Bundeswehr had a strength of half a million soldiers. Heck, Germany would have had even tactical nuclear weapons during wartime. Now you can see this equipment in a museum.



This draw down happened only after the Cold War ended. That is 30 years ago, not 80 years. And naturally the threat that Putin's Russia poses is far smaller than what the Soviet Union did.

Since they already occupy the territories they are asking for, they don't really need a peace deal... — ChatteringMonkey

Actually, they don't. Putin is asking for oblasts that aren't totally in Russian hands.

We support him to get the realistically best possible peace deal, not to fight on indefinately. — ChatteringMonkey

That would be the European objective, not Trump's objective, who is basically doing the bidding of Russia here.

Russia is in no way in a similar position as Nazi-germany. They have trouble conquering a small part of a neighbouring country. — ChatteringMonkey

Which has been supported by the largest alliance in history, up until Trump. But cut off that aid, and Russia can take Ukraine. And once there's a cease-fire, then Russia can build up in few years the armament that it has lost. Also it drafts hundreds of thousands of conscripts annually.

When Russia says it's at war with NATO and the West, we should understand that he means it.

We need to borrow more money because COVID, because Russia, because climate change, because an aging demographic, because there is allways a reason!

https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/GG_DEBT_GDP@GDD/CAN/FRA/DEU/ITA/JPN/GBR/USA

It's not going to end well. — ChatteringMonkey

Yes, it's not going to end well.

The system is just going to default in some way or another. That simple.
You can default or then you can pay it with inflation.

Whether this trend will continue after Trump's presidency remains to be seen. I'm not convinced that it will. — Tzeentch

And actually Putin has to think the same way here. Yes, the Kremlin can now acknowledge that the US is in line with them, yet Trump's friendliness is only temporary. Hence best to play this as the useful idiot. I don't see how Trump will repair this to be better. He is fixated in his own ideas and there are no safety rails anymore as there were in Trump's first administration, but people around him eager competing in pleasing his whims.

It's also a question of whether the picture the media is trying to sketch corresponds with reality and the views of the average American. — Tzeentch

Well, the country is polarized. That's for sure. Yet I think many simply don't see just what is happening around them. I genuinely think that there are only few if any Americans share Trump's delusions of the grandeur of annexing Canada. And many I guess do think that having allies is a good thing. Or that the Constitution should be followed especially by those in power.

The reason for this is that the overton window has been blown open, especially on cultural issues. So sometimes you can't "come together" and you just need to fight off nasty ideas. I know as a democracy we pride ourselves on tolerance but that tolerance must have a limit. We cannot tolerate the rot that is occuring in our institutions of higher learning. — BitconnectCarlos

I thought you would see it now in Canada, where I assume you are living. It's not about the Overton window been blown open, when you question the sovereignty of a state and it's territory. Culture war issues are totally insignificant and meaningless political discourse compared to questioning the borders of another state, which is similar to summoning up the Devil. It goes far further than any "Overton window" of what things are correct to talk about as it is a clear existential threat one is making. And this was evident when JD Vance gave his infamous speech at Munich, which seems to have been more focused for his MAGA audience back home. The ludicrous idea from Vance that "Russia isn't a threat", but the Culture war issues and the selective idea of "freedom of speech" are the problems of Europe shows clearly this tone deaf and overtly hostile attitude to countries that are really preparing for war. The true colors of the Trump administration have been shown, even if diplomatically everybody is just silent about the issue and hope that this is only a temporary collapse. For now, it's just some random French senator that can tell how things are, that we have a Nero in Washington. But that diplomacy will wear off, if and when Trump continues with his "great television".

So you can repeat all the culture war issues of DEI and the libtard snowflakes in the universities, which are as petty meaningless as burning flags or taking the knee when the national anthem is played compared to the trashing of the security system that have held for 80 years and kept our peace until today. To think that culture war issues are somehow at the same level of issues of war and peace, of German leader saying that Europe has to go independent of the US, or of the Polish leadership is openly discussing getting nuclear weapons, is hilarious. Europe is promising to rearm itself at breakneck speed pouring far more into defense than Russia and China combined. The threat of war is higher than any time of since perhaps the Cuban Missile crisis. The European rearmament started because of Putin, not because of Trump. But yes, now the crescendo in the rearmament is because of Trump, the leader which we cannot trust.

We cannot tolerate the endless streams of illegal immigrants and gang members and sex traffickers making their way into the US. — BitconnectCarlos

And neither do we, even if in your imagination of a libtard Gay Europe you might not perhaps understand that. And it doesn't take a fucking populist fringe party to bring that tougher stance immigration as the MAGA people seem to think.

And we certainly cannot tolerate the idea that anyone can just be any gender/sex they feel without it leading to mass chaos. This is what brought Trump to power. — BitconnectCarlos

And did you vote for Trump to annex Canada, Greenland and Panama? Did you vote for Trump to destroy the alliances actually that have benefited the US, created the Pax Americana, have made NATO countries to stand alongside you when Article 5 was implemented after 9/11? Did you vote for higher prices and economic recession? Because that's what you seem to get now.

Well, exactly. And look how they marketed that as a full blown attempt at a coup d'etat. — Tzeentch

Exactly. It wasn't a planned autocoup, because then Trump would have prepared for it. Now he just through something of a Hail Mary pass at the last moment. Now the Secret Service drove Trump to the White House against his wishes where he watched in awe as his supporters stormed the Capitol. Was that inappropriate? Hell yes. Quite more than vandalism against Tesla cars.

It's perfectly appropriate to see this in the context of political violence/intimidation, but of course "the other side" is categorically unable to acknowledge their own wrongs.

It's partisan through and through. — Tzeentch

Indeed. And this is why everything is going to hell in a hand basket, as they say.

And people will be in shock if and when the violence erupts. All you need is a few people with a self loading rifles feeling they are under attack and decide to shoot back. And then you have people killed because of politics and that will be normalized. Have we just forgotten the George Floyd riots during the prior Donald Trump administration? Then it was blacks rioting because of police action. Now just how worse it will be when the rioting is against the Trump administration? Jan 6th rioters would die for their President. Do not underestimate their dedication.

Your inability to tell the difference between vandalism by angry people and the storming of a parliamentary hearing buttressed by right wing activists waving confederate flags and other seccessionist movements, where the new President would be inaugurated is telling. — Benkei

But this is the real problem here.

That crowd you are talking about is in power. It's the base that Trump listens to, because Trump isn't trying to build any bridges here to anybody else. Do you really think they wouldn't stand up for their President, if asked to? When Trump would declare that the deep state is there to overthrow the Trump presidency?

And I'll just repeat it here. Canadians are the example of what happens when Trump simply just dismisses the fact that polite neighbors might really get angry from his ideas. Not even the MAGA people themselves take the idea of annexing Canada and Greenland seriously, but Canada and Greenlanders and naturally the Danes do take this seriously. They that are confronted with Trump's hostility, will notice every Mark Rutte that simply laughs away the matter when Trump starts talking about annexing territories from it's allies. They won't see it as this some kind of Professional Wrestling excessive hyperbole that is just show. They will see it as reality, as Trump won't back down.

They take all the bullshit from Trump quite seriously. This is a way that really the serious polarization happens, because if an ultimate sign of hostility is to talk about annexation, then the ultimate act of hostility against a democracy is to question and not care about the separation of the powers and the US Constitution.

What if it were Trump supporters doing something like this? Would you think the same way? — Tzeentch

It's not a what if. January 6th happened.



I think you don't get it. The US is going off a cliff. The toxic populism of Trump will get people to oppose him and there is nothing to calm things down. The polarization and the divide will just increase more. Trump has a loyal base and that will stand with him to the end and Trump, just as he was before in his earlier administration, only concentrated on it. Trump will just anger more and more his opposition, just like he has enraged the Canadians. For the Canadians it isn't just a trade war, Trump himself is a threat to the country. In the US Trump will continue disregard totally the separation of powers, and with the likely stagflation, he will make things worse. Trump wants to change things rapidly in such pace that it will end up in a chaotic mess.

Vandalism against a private company is already portrayed as domestic terrorism shows what the response will be and how Trump will respond to political protests against him. Of course, this is really is self defeating, because the tough stance against any protests will just increase the fears that people have against Trump. And add to that the dire economic situation, which will just get worse.

You see, in a functioning democracy when the shit really hits the fan, the political parties can put political competition aside and work together. I've seen it now twice in my country, with the opposition coming full on to side of the administration and politicians reacting extremely quickly in unison. First with the Pandemic, then with Putin's attack on February 24th 2022 attack. The American response to the Pandemic is here quite telling. Did it unify the country? No, of course not, it just increased the political polarization and distrust in the government. And that polarization is just going on, continuing, just increasing it's speed...



Americans are losing their ability to come together. Populism does this as it partitions people. Even if they would be hit by a meteorite or the goddam Yellowstone supervolcano would erupt, this wouldn't get the Americans to get together. The efforts of individual people would surely be praised, but likely there wouldn't be rallying to your government in this case. The political infighting would continue. We already have seen how Trump confronted the pandemic.

It's very first principles are wrong. Like in history when guys started questioning Euclidean postulates? — Gregory

How are the very first principles of calculus wrong? What are you talking about?

Actually you give a perfect example of something not being wrong, but simply limited. It's not that Euclid was wrong, it simply was the case that not everything fell into his understanding of geometry. Root cause was that geometry on a plane and on a sphere are simply different. And you might have to think of geometry of a sphere. That's it. Yet the geometry on a plane is still correct. Hence the error is if one thinks that all geometry happens on a plane. Thus there is Euclidian geometry and non-euclidian geometry (spherical or hyperbolic etc).



Actually, what example would really be false was the Greek idea that "All numbers are rational". And the idea why people believed it was so was because... math is so beautiful. Well, there are irrational numbers. The Greeks found them, and they weren't happy about it. Yet that idea really was a genuine error.

And I think that the idea that "there is no infinity in mathematics" is simply wrong. Similar to the latter example "all numbers are rational". That you only stick to finite mathematics is another thing. Ok, do that. But then what you can do in mathematics is limited.

Wonderful take on Trump's and Putin's phonecalls:

It's useful, not true. — Gregory

Not true, but useful?

Ok, that really doesn't make any sense. Calculus is a part of mathematics and totally accepted. Please don't start to argue that Calculus is not true.

I've presented at least 5 cogent arguments against infinity — Gregory

No, you haven't been at all convincing. I'm afraid that you don't simply get it.

You can't seem to recognise that the responses you are receiving actually answer your questions. It's odd. But it's not about maths, it's about you. — Banno

I think I have to agree here with @Banno. Don't want to be harsh here.

Then answer my arguments — Gregory

I did answer your arguments. Just in the last response I wrote you. Infinite is different from the finite. If you start from a finite situation, now wonder you have problems to understand the infinite.

Why couldn't its foundations be wrong? — Gregory

Hopefully you do notice that calculus is very, very useful in physics or economics etc. It does answer correctly to many real world problems, that can be calculated by using calculus.

For me, one way is to look at the history of mathematics, how new ideas have been responded to, how from one thing we have gotten to another. This way, the theorems aren't taken just as a given.

If you look at the history of calculus, you see the obvious foundational problems it has had. From Newton himself and Leibniz. Yet if your argument is that infinity doesn't exist, then basically calculus wouldn't exist.

But this is a different story to the one we started with. — Banno

Yeah, but I guess everyone should understand the connection that infinity and an infinitesimal has. (Or limits)

The very first step of the video i question. If all the rooms are filled you can't move 1 to 2 and 3 to room 4 because all the infinite rooms are already filled. — Gregory

That would be true if there would be a finite number of rooms. Then the person in the last room would find there's no room for him or her. But it's an infinite hotel. There is no last room.

If there would be a last room, guess what? The hotel would have finite amount of rooms.

Your problem is that you simply don't understand the concept of infinity, so it's quite futile for me to show that these are mathematical proofs, not just my opinions. You see, calculus exists. Infinity is a very useful and logical concept and is used a lot in mathematics. Modern set theory has infinity as an axiom.

I totally understand it's really puzzling. A lot of the brightest minds in the history of math found this very puzzling. Galileo Galilei was one of the first people to point this. (See Galileo's Paradox)

Oh a few cars set on fire. Poor billionaire, boo woo.

Anyone remember the attack on the Capitol? “No one died! It’s just some property damage.”

Anyone die from the Tesla vandalism? No. “Domestic terrorism!”

It’s just so easy. Who can take partisan trolls seriously? Even if they PRETENDED to have principles, maybe they wouldn’t be so easy to spot. — Mikie

Our partisan troll takes it very seriously. It's not arson or vandalism, this is 9/11 level terrorism, and thus the perpetrators ought to be handled like terrorists. Although even he lives in Canada, where he should see what an impact Trump's condescending behavior stirred up with those "nasty" Canadians, he won't see where Trump is leading the US.

This will just get worse.

King Donald is just drooling for the opportunity to go after the "domestic terrorists", protesters that dare to oppose his reign. As the economy goes south thanks to the tariffs and Trump uncertainty, the US is on a collision course that will create the epic trainwreck.

Ah yes, @NOS4A2's domestic terrorists:

It’s already law. — NOS4A2

Democrats forced to buy Tesla's? Wow!

Do you guys fire-bomb Ladas to get back at Putin? — NOS4A2

Lol.

A Lada is a very rare vehicle in Finland. They all were bought back to Russia when the borders opened. And guess what, it's not the most durable and long lasting car. Mainly collectors have Ladas in Finland.

Yes, when the second-in-command Elon Musk's cars are vandalized, it's the job of the US Attorney General Pam Blondi to act and make the charges! :snicker:

Why don't the Republicans make it into law that every democrat thinking of buying a new car has to buy a Tesla? At least Donald could make an executive order of that. Because Elon needs help!!!!!



Still proudly wearing that MAGA hat when you go to the supermarket in Canada, NOS? :wink:

What am I missing? — Gregory

Again, if you can start with 1, 2, and 3 and move the 2 to one and the 3 to 2 ect. you could also take a segment parallel to the whole numbers and move each point down to the left like you did before and assume it's all good at the other infinite end, like you did trying to prove the even numbers are equal to the whole numbers. Also, doesn't this violate the principle that the whole is greater than the part? — Gregory

Uh, nope.

OK, let's try another way. I assume (from the above) you know the idea of the Hilbert Hotel works. Please watch this video (only six minutes!), it sums up perfectly the uncountable infinite and Cantor's diagonal argument. And just why sometimes the Hilbert Hotel cannot accomodate every possibility of guests.



Basically this is what in the earlier link I gave you was told in theorem 1.20 of the uncountability of the reals. But for me the above video is more easier to understand.

Why is that a legit move? Why can't you do this move with the uncountable as well? — Gregory

Where would you start?

First of all, do you know what's the difference between countable and uncountable here?

Basically, the "legit move" is that you can make a bijection with the set of natural numbers (1,2,3,4,5,...) and the set you are thinking about. This means that you basically can write the numbers you are talking about in a way that you get every of them and don't miss any number (if you would have infinite time a so on...). If you can't do this, then it's uncountable.

If I don't make my point clear, just go and look at this site: Countable and Uncountable Sets Remember to look at the proofs.

A koch snowflake has a finite area but an infinite boundary. Odd, that. Very nice. — Banno

The koch snowflake is just sending a finite boundary into infinity. It can't exist. -Mathematical infinity swallows itself and there's nothing that save it. — Gregory

A circle has infinite amount of tangents, yet in every place of it's circumference it has just one.

In Mathematics, infinity exists. Clear and simple. We just don't understand everything about it. Hence we have things like the Continuum Hypothesis. Yet our ignorance doesn't make it illogical and false. In Mathematics, it's as real as a finite number or the circle is. Or a Koch snowflake etc.

More reasons why Musk is so fond of Putin also and why the turnaround of dumping the former allies and going to bed with Russia would be lucrative for Elon.

Russia will ‘undoubtedly’ discuss future Mars flights with Musk, Putin envoy says
Proposed talks would again put Musk, a senior adviser to Trump, in outsized and largely unaccountable role in international politics

Russian officials expect to hold talks with Elon Musk soon about space travel to Mars, Vladimir Putin’s international cooperation envoy said on Tuesday. The envoy’s comments, which Musk has not confirmed, also stated that Russia wanted to expand its cooperation with the US on space projects.

“I think that there will undoubtedly be a discussion with Musk [about Mars flights] in the near future,” Kirill Dmitriev said at a business forum in Moscow, going on to praise Musk’s efforts to push the boundaries of human achievement.

The proposed talks would once again put Musk, the world’s richest man and a senior adviser to Trump, in an outsized and largely unaccountable role in international politics. Musk has joined in on White House calls with international leaders since Donald Trump’s re-election, and prior to his new role in the administration reportedly was in regular contact with Putin.

At this point anyone who's still supporting the Republican party ought be considered in the same light as an outright supporter of a fascist regime. — fdrake

MAGA hats might be viewed in a different light in twenty years from now, but that doesn't mean a thing today.

Notice how easy it seems to be to put the lid on for example the university students.

First it was Trump posts and fear from the "libtards":

The guidance is especially timely after an early morning Truth Social post from President Trump threatening to stop federal funding for “any College, School, or University that allows illegal protests,” and proposing that “agitators will be imprisoned/or permanently sent back to the country from which they came.”

“It is disturbing to see the White House threatening freedom of speech and academic freedom on U.S. college campuses so blatantly. We stand in solidarity with university leaders in their commitment to free speech, open debate, and peaceful dissent on campus,” said Cecillia Wang, legal director of the ACLU and co-author of the letter. “Trump’s latest coercion campaign, attempting to turn university administrators against their own students and faculty, harkens back to the McCarthy era and is at odds with American constitutional values and the basic mission of universities.”

According to the ACLU, the White House is attempting to pressure university officials to target immigrant and international students, faculty, and staff, including holders of non-immigrant visas and lawful permanent residents or others on a path to U.S. citizenship, for exercising their First Amendment rights.

Then it was actual deportations and the university faculties doing just as Trump wanted them to do:

On Sunday, Brown University sent a campus-wide email advising faculty, students and other community members on visas or permanent residency status to postpone personal international travel for spring break, which runs from March 22 to 30. Columbia University and Cornell University released similar guidance on their website this past week. At the end of last year, several institutions warned international students to return to the U.S. before President Donald Trump took office.

"We understand that many in our community are feeling a great deal of uncertainty and anxiety as news media share reports of federal deportation actions against individuals who are non U.S. citizens," Russell C. Carey, executive vice president for planning and policy and interim vice president for campus life at Brown, said in the email that was shared with USA TODAY by the university.

I assume that this above is the consequence from the deportation of Rasha Alawieh, a Lebanese physician.

Of course, when it comes to terrorism and drug trafficking, the harsh "due process" is already there. But the fact really isn't to go with the "due process" stuff, but show just how quickly something can be done and judges and "due process" can stand away. Tom Homan, Trump's border czar, stated this attitude quite well.

It think the problem with this line of thinking is that we are in fact weak. — ChatteringMonkey

Why do you think so?

There's far enough resources, technological ability and I would say unity to defend the union. Going on in out of the area peace enforcing or other stuff isn't going to be popular, but the simple fact of defending the member states from outside aggression is an reachable goal.

Look, my country wasn't part of NATO, was left totally to the sphere of Stalin and yet we had enough deterrence to stay independent. Why now would we have less deterrence when we are in an alliance and when Europe is pouring 800 billion into defense procurement?

And to be strong you need to have a good economy, and for that you need cheaper energy... — ChatteringMonkey

Nonsense. We are talking of military strength and deterrence. Just look at what a basket case is Russia itself. And look how poor actually the Chinese are compared per capita to us. One has to understand that the NATO countries (minus US) spend more than China and Russia COMBINED in defense. It's really a simply an issue of having will here to really to put serious investment into defense.

I think these psychological considerations matter a whole lot less that we might think, it's the facts on the ground that matter most, and there Russia is winning. — ChatteringMonkey

Russia isn't winning. Ukrainians can decide if they want to fight for their country or not. It is up to us if we want to give them support. For example: over 70 F-16 fighters have been pledged to be given to Ukraine. Now only 18 have been sent, I guess. We in Europe have to understand that Trump is hostile to us, he isn't our friend.

I don't deny this, they are our adversary now and we should treat them as such for the forseable future. That doesn't mean we can't try to de-escalate and work towards having a less destructive relation. — ChatteringMonkey

How?
By giving into Putin's demands? By sidelining the Ukrainians here, just as Trump does?

This approach was used earlier in history. Then the British Prime Minister stated:

"We, the German Führer and Chancellor, and the British Prime Minister, have had a further meeting today and are agreed in recognizing that the question of Anglo-German relations is of the first importance for our two countries and for Europe. We regard the agreement signed last night and the Anglo-German Naval Agreement as symbolic of the desire of our two peoples never to go to war with one another again. We are resolved that the method of consultation shall be the method adopted to deal with any other questions that may concern our two countries, and we are determined to continue our efforts to remove possible sources of difference, and thus to contribute to assure the peace of Europe."

"My good friends, for the second time in our history, a British Prime Minister has returned from Germany bringing peace with honour.
I believe it is peace for our time...
Go home and get a nice quiet sleep."

And Chamberlain was praised at the time as “the benefactor of the world” while Chamberlain’s critics were “‘war-mongers“. That people "felt a very proper reluctance of sending young men of this country” to war, especially as there were no personal feelings of “ill-will” between British men and “their German and Italian contemporaries.”

The current worldwide rightward trend --- perhaps even in OZ --- may lead to a disaster like Hitler, but somehow the world will find a way to keep-on keeping-on, zig-zagging from left to right and back. Remember the grandeur-that-was-Rome? The path of history, when seen in retrospect, cycles between extremes, yet on average it seems to be on a moderate track, with few points of total anarchy. Even so, like a tornado that fortunately misses my house, Trumpnado may leave a wake of destruction behind. But, don't look to me to quell the storm. :cool: — Gnomon

People may say that, but they don't understand it. The part that there will be destruction around, even if it's not your house that was shredded into pieces.

What Trump is doing goes way over people's heads and thus they don't understand what is happening as it's happening so fast. The US is cutting it's allies loose, surrendering to it's adversaries and basically going against everything it stood for the past 80 years. And domestically it's dismantling it's institutions and becoming more of tumultuous and wavering Latin American state.

Yet listening to the democrat octogenarian James Carville defending Chuck Schumer (74 years) and talking about a smart withdrawal, I think especially these old Washington circle jerks do not understand what is happening. They think this is American politics as usual. It's not.

Ok SSU let me ask you this, what do you think our long term strategy should be towards Russia? — ChatteringMonkey

There's been enough of "resets" and understanding of Putin's Russia. As long as Putin's Russia is as hostile as it is, we should treat it as a threat, just like the West treated Soviet Union. Appeasement now will just show that Europe is inherently weak and can be forced with the threat of violence to give everything up.

We could have a alliance not against Russia, but for European security and involve Russia so it doesn't threaten its security, but also improves its security. — ChatteringMonkey

Please do understand that Putin's Russia wants to dissolve the European Union and hence is a genuine threat to it. Someone that is your adversary really isn't your friend and you won't improve your security by going along with it. China isn't such aggressive as Russia.

Putin is not going to live forever, but Russia is allways going to be there. — ChatteringMonkey

And as long as Russia sees itself as a Great Power that should have it's sphere of influence in Europe, that long it's an existential threat. It can have a revolution and understand that the time of it's Imperial greatness is over, just like the UK understood and even France was forced to understand.

There's not going to be any difference if one siloviki is replaced with another siloviki, like Putin replaced by perhaps Nikolai Patrushev or someone similar. But I guess instantly many will again want to push immediately the "reset" button, even if the "new" guy has been all along with Putin.

So ignoring court orders, threatening to impeach judges they disagree with, deporting green card holders because they don’t like what they say— you know, the “law and order” party. Violating due process and freedom of speech and assembly. — Mikie

Straight from the playbook of Victor Orban's Hungary, actually. Cannot be said anymore that the separation of powers is working in the US.

I'd also add the threats of annexation of Canada and Greenland. Perhaps it's too odd for Americans to understand this, but talking about annexation is really bad. The "nastiest country" isn't taking as a joke Trump's delusions. That Prime minister Carney visited France and UK and Canada is rethinking the purchase of the F-35 is very telling. Now if 25% tariffs are put up on all Canadian exports next month, that will just make this breakup worse.

Looking at the octogenarian Democrats, I think simply they aren't understanding just what Trump is really doing to the Republic. How do they suppose that Trump will be reigned in? But Republicans saying "That's too far"???

(No shit. But that's your response? And Paddle signs?)

As far as I understand, in ancient times, the Eastern despotisms dominated the world because they fought better than democratic city-states. — Linkey

I think that even Machiavelli said that city-states raise better armies than monarchs that use soldiers of fortune, the Condottieri.

Simply put it, will to fight and the ability to take the initiative by lower ranking officers, ncos or even soldiers has always been extremely important. Armies of totalitarian societies usually have difficulties to operate once the commanders are out of action or missing. This actually can be seen from just how many Russian generals were killed in the early stages of the war in Ukraine in 2022. Yet Imperial Germany and Nazi Germany did have their Aufstragtaktik, so this can be taught also in non-democracies. Yet in functioning democracies this elan for the troops can be easily created. In dictatorships, showing initiative is crushed and emphasis is usually to follow orders (assuming one doesn't have a warfighting culture that avoids these pitfalls). You are correct that these kind of issue are important, starting from the obvious fact that armed forces are part of a society and hence do have inside them the possible problems that the society has (corruption, lack of social cohesion, people subjugated only by fear of violence etc.).

Again the war in Ukraine has shown that these issues do matter.

2) As I understand it, in the early Middle Ages, the Vikings had a military democracy, while in the late Middle Ages, a regular monarchy reigned in Scandinavia. Is it possible to draw a parallel here with the fact that in the early Middle Ages the Vikings could terrorize Europeans, but after 1064 they lost this advantage? — Linkey

Actually, no.

Sweden was quite bellicose especially in the 17th Century and fought quite well above it's weight limit in the 30-years war and against the Danes, the Poles and the Russians. In fact the Swedish King Gustavus Adolphus is sometimes called "the father of Modern warfare". In the end, the country simply lacked sufficient manpower. So much actually, that once when a census was made, the state was horrified to learn just how few people it had, it declared the findings a state secret.



And anyway, feodalism wasn't so crushing in Sweden (and the Nordic countries) as it was in Central Europe. In Sweden the peasant class was quite strong and the aristocracy wasn't so powerful as in many other countries. Hence the last revolt in Sweden was when they rebelled against their Danish King (of Kalmar Union time) 1521-1523. After that, there has been no rebellion or civil war in Sweden until this day, which just shows how actually proto-democratic the society has been.

And the successes of the Vikings tell more about the weakness of Europe in the Dark Ages. Charlemagne had forbidden aristocrats to build fortifications, but once those castles and forts were built up, no Viking problem. Or by the Vikings had already settled into the picture (as Normans).

3) If I am not mistaken, the nomadic Mongols had a lot of what can be called democracy. On the other hand, Genghis Khan united them into a single centralized state, and achieved a huge military success. — Linkey

I'm not so sure just how much democracy did the Mongol Horde have. True that after the Khan died, the Mongol invasion machine broke down as to elect a new Khan (something which actually spared Western Europe). Anyway, with horsemen that took literally as warfighting strategy the Roman saying "make a desert and call it peace" I find really little to be similar with democracy or democratic values.

Two thirds of the German Bundestag voted for huge increases in defense expenditure and to allow to take far more debt than the "debt brake" would have allowed. To be voted next Friday in the upper house also.

The defence plans approved today by the Bundestag also allow spending on aid for states "attacked in violation of international law" to be exempt from the debt brake.

That will enable outgoing Chancellor Olaf Scholz to release €3bn in aid to Ukraine as early as next week.

Actually he said that he knows both Putin and Zelenskyi well.

Yet that promise was understandably in the promises like "Build a wall and have Mexico pay for it."

What really changed everything was the US to truly align with Russia, as Kremlin has acknowledged itself. And then...

- Bully and harass Zelenskyi
- block all support for Ukraine, upgrades to weapon-systems, satellite information, weapons deliveries alreadt been on the way to Ukraine (even if afterwards resumed, naturally without any additional help to be given)
- even at Rubio and Elon belittling the Polish foreign minister when he dared to say that actually Poland was paying for the commercial use of the Starlink in Ukraine.

End result: the US is an untrustworthy ally that likely with Trump at helm won't lift a finger in the defense treaty. Trump may even walk out of NATO, if he would have his wish. Europe has to act and understand just like Canada, that Trump's regime isn't a friend or an ally.

Another terrible day for America first foreign policy. — NOS4A2

Seems that we agree. At least this day.

There have been many terrible days for US foreign policy. Yet many fantastic days for Russia.

Trump’s base is not going to like this and hopefully its unpopularity is enough to push him to stop it. — NOS4A2

How then if there's a war in Panama, Mexico...

Or when there's a war...

And actually, we aren't talking anymore about think-tank researchers or academicians talking about nuclear deterrence. In the case of Poland, the need for a nuclear deterrent has already been talked by the prime minister.


And we can thank Donald & JD for all of this.

What is the time frame given the Ukrainian urgent needs? — neomac

That's the real question. Basically they first have to dip even more into their own equipment. But for example Finland is sending prototype equipment there to be used in real war, which is far more better than the occasional limited testing of a weapon system. Basically something can be done in six months, a lot in 12 months. Basically in six months Ukraine will be in a very difficult position, if the US basically leaves it on the mercy of the Russians. So the question is basically what Europe can do in few months and in a year.

The money is there, but now it's a question of sending equipment and production bottlenecks.

Non-US users of the F-16 have pledged 85 flyable F-16s for Ukraine, which 18 have been sent. I guess at least one has been lost. Before, Biden's US trained the pilots, gave ALQ-131 ECM pods and so on.

European replacement (or addition) is an aircraft like Mirage 2000, which is now in service with Ukraine. What is notable that these can fire Storm Shadow missiles and are far more survivable than the old SU-24 fighterbombers that Ukraine has used as a missile platform. In the future, one really good fighter would be the Swedish JAS 39 Gripen, which would fit the needs of Ukraine perhaps better. But even few Mirage 2000-5F do make a difference to nothing.

The initial batch of Mirage 2000-5F jets touched down in Ukraine after a six-month training program for Ukrainian pilots and technicians, conducted at air bases in eastern and southwestern France. Lecornu announced the arrival on social media, noting that the aircraft, flown by Ukrainian crews, would now contribute to defending the country’s skies.

While the exact number of jets delivered remains undisclosed for security reasons, a French parliamentary budget report from late 2024 indicated that six of the French Air Force’s 26 Mirage 2000-5F aircraft were earmarked for transfer. The delivery aligns with a timeline Macron outlined in June 2024, when he pledged the jets during a visit from Zelensky commemorating the D-Day landings.

Since their arrival, the Mirages have been integrated into Ukraine’s air fleet, joining F-16s supplied by nations like the Netherlands and Denmark, as part of a Western effort to enhance Kyiv’s aerial capabilities.

Evidence suggests the Mirage 2000 jets saw combat action shortly after their arrival. On March 7, 2025, Ukrainian officials reported that the French-supplied aircraft participated in repelling a large-scale Russian air attack involving missiles and drones targeting cities across the country.

(Ukrainian Mirage 2000 shooting down a Russian missile)

The Baltics and Nordic Nations Should Discuss Acquiring Their Own Nuclear Deterrent with Poland
https://balticsentinel.eu/8207598/finnish-researcher-the-baltics-and-nordic-nations-should-discuss-acquiring-their-own-nuclear-deterrent-with-poland — neomac

This is the logical outcome of what Trump has put rolling. Trump simply hasn't understood the effects of what he has just done. But this (nuclear weapons, going off the non-proliferation treaties) is still behind closed doors and something that likely politicians aren't ready to market people. For now, it's just something that researchers can talk about.

But it is quite evident is that the US wouldn't go to WW3 over the Baltic States. At least with Trump at the helm. So this is a real issue. Poland takes this dead seriously. Sweden would have the capability, they already did produce nuclear weapon, yet there would have to be huge discussion about this. Or then things would have to get a lot more worse.

An European nuclear weapons crash program wouldn't take many years to do. It would be something done very rapidly. The real issue is to make the people accept a nuclear program. The option of just sticking one's head in the sand and repeating that the US will be there (and France's nuclear weapons are enough) is very tempting denial.

Of course. Trump wants to overthrow Orban because... 4D Chess?

Article explaining the Putin strategy in reference to the peace talks. He is using the talks to drive a wedge between the European alliance and the U.S. While the European alliance is frantically trying to keep the U.S. with Europe. — Punshhh

For Putin the first objective is to destroy NATO, the secondary objective is to destroy the EU.

OK where else should Europeans buy weapons for Ukraine from? — neomac

Unlike Saudi-Arabia, which has money but no industry or professional workforce, EU can make everything that they need, if they just want it. Including yes, starting from nukes.

You do understand that when European NATO countries agree to raise their defense spending, that spending will go mainly to their own defense industry and NOT to the US defense industry.

A little thing that Trump doesn't understand...