So from terrorist organization suddenly they change to "puppet authorities"?Not similar. In the Warsaw uprising it was the resistance that led it, not the puppet authorities. — BitconnectCarlos
That's the paradox. If we would assume a free independent Palestine that would be as trouble free as Jordan, then that Palestine should have an effective, capable military to guard it's borders and airspace. But that is not what Israel wants. And then we have to understand that the Likud party is de facto totally faithful to it's original party charter.It would be better “An Arab state which you have a peace agreement that is able to guard it's side”. But what is this assessment useful for in the context of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? — neomac
It is a fully occupied and controlled by the state of Israel, not a failed state neighbor. But then you have to remember that Israel did for years occupy half of Lebanon. What was the result of that? Hezbollah was the outcome of that!!!In the current circumstances Palestine is closer to be fully occupied and controlled by an Israeli state, than to remain a failed state neighbour. — neomac
That's a politician talking the talk... which the Americans want to hear. Actions, not words, ought to be what you look at. (Also with the Palestinians, btw)Notice however that even Netanyahu is able talk about the conditions for a two state solution (at least, starting with demilitarisation and recognition of Israel’s right to exist) — neomac
And that's why I say in past tense that this conflict ought to have been solved when the Cold War ended, but it wasn't and now it won't go away. October 7th is the rallying cry for Israel and the present war in Gaza will be the rallying cry for Palestinians. This conflict won't be solved. Both sides are just fine with the war going on... they are totally unable to "sit down and have a brokered peace".What’s worse is that the current war is supported by ~2/3 of the Israelis and the support of a two state solution has sharply declined since 2013 and after October the 7th it reached ~10% — neomac
We agree on this. It's telling that two leaders that actually did huge efforts in brokering peace deals were killed by their countries extremists, both in Israel and in Egypt.Hamas is more instrumental to Netanyahu than Fatah (and such a view would probably be reciprocated by Hamas) to justify his refusal to negotiate a two state solution. — neomac
Would the US allow someone to finance Al Qaeda? Because it would be in their interests??? You will look silly if you try to defend Bibi's actions here.First, we are not talking about Israeli direct financing of Hamas but Qatari money for humanitarian aid, as agreed with the US and Qatar. — neomac
But they are very crucial. Starting from the leadership living in Qatar. Remember, when the Gulf donators of the PLO got pissed off of Arafat supporting the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait (because naturally Saddam positioned himself as a supporter of Palestinians), Arafat and the PLO had to go to the negotiation table with Israel. There's not much wealth to be extracted from the Palestinians in Gaza now living in tents.Second, the Qatari donations are a non-negligible but partial portion of Hamas income coming from taxes, legitimate business, covert smuggling, and international charity/donors — neomac
Just like with Putin, war is great for Netanyahu. Bibi might have to face some domestic problems without a war going on and himself being a war leader.Fifth, even if Israeli support for Netanyahu looks irrecoverably compromised, yet Netanyahu’s strategy has played in favour of his political goals. — neomac
Well, you did have the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, so things have gone quite similarly in that case.Anyway, if the Palestinian territories were actually like a Nazi ghetto then both the PA and Hamas would be unquestionably subordinate to the Israeli government and Israel would be able to replace them as they like. — BitconnectCarlos
:snicker:Let me know when all Palestinians are required to register with Israeli authorities. — BitconnectCarlos
The Population Registry Office is responsible for updating and archiving the Palestinian population registry held by Israel, in coordination with the Palestinian Authority.
In accordance with diplomatic agreements between Israel and the Palestinian Authority, full responsibility for administering the population registry and providing services to Palestinian residents of the area has been passed to the Palestinian Authority.
The Population Registry Office works to update population registry files located on the Israeli side to match the files that are held by the Palestinian Authority.
Judea and Samaria
Areas of Responsibility and Services
Updating the Palestinian population registry file on the Israeli side
Handling of visas for foreigners who request to stay in the area
Tracking and oversight of address changes, marital status changes, births, deaths, and more
Provision of information to national entities as well as to entities authorized in accordance with the needs and instructions of the law
Handling of Palestinian Authority requests for visitors' permits for foreigners, with the approval of COGAT
Handling of Palestinian Authority requests connected with the Palestinian population registry for Palestinian residents and foreigners, with the approval of COGAT
Gaza Strip
Areas of Responsibility and Services
Updating of the population registry in the Israeli authority systems – passports, certificates, identification cards, etc.
Verification of familial relations for Israelis crossing between Israel and the Gaza Strip
Handling of exceptional crossing requests for foreigners and miscellaneous persons staying in the Gaza Strip without documentation
Handling of exceptional requests of Palestinians requiring recognition of their status in Israel, in the framework of naturalization, in cooperation with the Ministry of Interior
Can you provide evidence supporting your claim? — neomac
see here(France24, 2018) Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has defended allowing Qatar to transfer millions of dollars to Hamas-run Gaza despite criticism from within his own government over the move aimed at restoring calm after months of unrest.
The Israeli-authorised money transfer appeared to be part of talks that would see Islamist movement Hamas end months of often violent protests along the border in exchange for Israel easing its blockade of the Gaza Strip.
Border protests have been much calmer the last two Fridays, the day they usually peak.
Netanyahu's remarks late Saturday were his first on the issue since Israel allowed the money transfer to the enclave controlled by Hamas, which Israel, the United States and European Union consider a terrorist movement.
Ok, just think about it for a while:Not sure if this is what Israeli needs. — neomac
Can you write more clearly that no independent Palestine ever is their stated objective?The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace.
How accountable are you yourself of your governments actions? You've voted, right? So you how much accountable are you again for everything they have ever done?Palestinians from Gaza possibly make Hamas accountable for Hamas’ deliberate actions which triggered the Israeli bombs when peace time returns and has returned? Their motivation can’t plausibly come from Hamas’ authoritarian rule alone (which is a problem but tolerable wrt Israeli bombs, as you said), and as ordinary Gazan Palestinians they have no proper means to do it, since Hamas mostly runs politically, legally, militarily and economically Gaza, right? — neomac
Great, we agree on something.Again, I find it plausible that American student protests are mostly not such staunch, devoted supporters of Hamas and its objectives. — neomac
OK. But do protesters think this way?if some pro-Palestinian American student protestor vocally advocates policies to increase humanitarian aid to Palestine and/or increase economic/political pressure on Israel (but not for Hamas!), while knowing or ignoring that Hamas can embezzle most of it to pursue its most brutal hostile activities against Israelis, and Hamas is more encouraged to perpetrate its most brutal hostile activities against Israelis if the likely result is more economic/political pressure on Israel (but not for Hamas!), then it’s hard to argue they are not MORE INSTRUMENTAL TO Hamas than to Israel, even if they are not staunch, devoted supporters of Hamas and its objectives. — neomac
Then quote the international lawyer idiot who says so, because that is bullshit. Very whimsical to hold on definitions that don't at all describe the reality, but then naturally we have had the "special military operation" going on in Ukraine for a while. (Not a war by Russian lawyers, so evidently your lawyers have to be correct!!!)No international lawyer describes it as a war because these aren't groups within the same country, it's a group in an occupied territory and another group from a country. The occupied territory is not considered a sovereign nation and even the recent recognition doesn't change this, because there's no de facto sovereignty if you do not control your own territory. It doesn't meet the standards for war, which in any case isn't the appropriate definition anymore. — Benkei
Which is understandable, because with the armed resistance comes the Israeli bombs. In "peace time" the authoritarian rule of Hamas among other issues can be a problem, but comparing that to be bombed all the time and have to move around and not be in your home, that is quite little. Something like "rallying around the flag". Which btw shows that both sides, Hamas and Bibi's government, aren't looking for a peaceful solution here.For example, in my previous post I claimed “Palestinians seem more supportive of Hamas armed resistance in war time than Hamas administration in peace time — neomac
It's an armed struggle sure but that doesn't make it war. — Benkei
"WAR: a state of armed conflict between different countries or different groups within a country.
Really, it doesn't!A war requires two sovereign nations. — Benkei
If you offered arguments, you didn't offer evidence. And your argument is like saying that all Americans support the Democrats, because they are in power. And Hamas hold little if anything now, with the West Bank being in control of the Fatah. Which makes your arguments simply poor.But I offered arguments and evidences, not slogans. — neomac
Again with your thinking that Palestine = Hamas.And the reason why I believe they are more pro-Hamas than pro-Israel doesn’t depend on their holding Hamas flags, or their praising Hamas’ actions, or their response to controversial questions (like the one about decapitated kids), but on their actually chosen arguments and rhetoric. — neomac
Being objective isn't both sideism. For example in WW2 you can surely question about the Allied terror-bombings, but that simply doesn't compare with other side's "Final solution". But some people simply get offended about any criticism. That's the problem of being objective.There's an inherent problem to both-sideism though when people think equal monks, equal hoods but they start forgetting its corollary: unequal monks. — Benkei
Now I have to disagree.There's no war. These are not equal parties. There's only a struggle for independence made futile by the unconditional support of a coloniser by the West. — Benkei
So only one of four doesn't want to commit suicide? Really?I would also disagree that every Palestinian wants that but it wouldn't be particularly reassuring to find that e.g. only ~75% of them want that. — BitconnectCarlos
Oh they won't. They won't notice at all you or others that do look at both objectively. They just will notice that you are criticizing their side (and thus won't notice you also criticizing the other) . How (and why) would they notice it?Maybe I'll keep bringing up both, hoping that some folks can get over themselves, and the discourse not just be the usual repetitions. — jorndoe
Pain isn't a constant and it isn't just something physical that the nervous system tells from our body. It's what we feel it to be. Heck, even boredom can be painful. Besides, if you ever haven't felt pain, how can you know what it is. Ask yourself, how many of us have experienced real hunger. The human can go without eating for days. How many of us have gone out without eating for days? Not many. So what on Earth do we know about real hunger, about what starvation feels like?What would Joy feel like without pain, what would riches mean without poverty or what would health mean without sickness. What would life mean without death?
To live in a society where we were incapable of experiencing such things as unhappiness, sadness, pain would be the same as being colour blind to the complete palette of human emotion of what truly makes us human. — kindred
If you think that Palestinians are so insane that they don't have any touch to reality, then do think so.Possibly connected, in some way, to their unflinching insistence on their (stronger) neighbor's destruction and replacement with Islamic rule. — BitconnectCarlos
Well, of course an interviewer can just ask the protesters what are they doing and why and leave then those who watch it to make their own conclusions....just like anybody else, me and you included. — neomac
What political impact do they have?I don't doubt that either. Yet one must be naive, if not disingenuous, to believe that those pro-Palestinian students "protesting for the end of the conflict and for an independent Palestine (with the Apartheid system ending)" may have a political impact immune from risks such as costly unintended consequences (like being instrumental to Hamas) where the most direct costs are on Israeli's and Jewish shoulders. — neomac
What a government does to foreigners ought to matter. And there are laws of war. But then you can take the attitude of Russia and don't care at all.If governments' legitimacy and accountability highly depend on the governments' capacity of preserving security (whatever that means) of those who willingly submit to it, we should not expect governments to pursue security of foreign people at the expense of domestic people's security. — neomac
Some of us still make the difference between a civilian and a combatant.Actually we are compelled to expect quite the contrary, especially if security concerns between foreign and domestic people are perceived as incompatible for historical and geopolitical reasons. Then of course you can add on top of that the risk of nasty polarising propaganda and politicians' selfish interest on one or both sides, among others. — neomac
Then don't think that everybody else see's the conflict as black and white. First of all, Israel exists, and it's victory in this conflict should be evident from the fact that the arguing is over the 1967 borders. As myself I have said, this conflict ought to have ended when the Cold War did. It didn't and there's no way back now. As long as it is with so little impact to Israel, the mowing of the lawn every once in a while will continue. And on the Palestinian side, a new generation of young men have to come to military age, which will also come to be.My point is that one can't convincingly flatten the analysis of this conflict down just to nasty propaganda on one or both sides. I find it shallow, if not hypocritical, and arrogant. Even more so if this is done in a philosophy forum. — neomac
...just like the interviewer with her own political bias.They all are part of the same political game, — neomac
In their own making in the way that they've been on a losing side of a war with Israel, that is true.A prison of their own making formed through their own fanatical commitment to destroying their stronger neighbor. — BitconnectCarlos
Are you serious?It doesn't make sense that Gaza is reliant on Israel for food. Can't they make their own? Same with water. It's not expensive to provide. — BitconnectCarlos
You read emails, they read peemails.When I walked my dog, I decided his sniffing was equal to humans reading a newspaper and that made me more patient as I waited for him to move on. — Athena
Just as we, they try to be rational. That helps them to survive. Information like what is food, where is food and predators and how to avoid them (or kill them) that can kill you are important.Question: Is an animal's response the result of rationally thinking through a communication or something else? — Athena
Clearly sympathizes?Israel clearly sympathizes with the Palestinians as they just conducted polio vaccines there. — BitconnectCarlos
Then shouldn't they show the flag, march in step in what they believe?This is debatable though: — neomac
Hezbollah is different. It's been the Palestinians, PLO before Hamas, that has used traditional terror tactics. I think the only accusation to Hezbollah has been the attack on Khobar Towers in 1996, which the US holds to be an Hezbollah / Iranian-backed attack. Yet Hezbollah in Lebanon was formed in response of the Israeli occupation of Southern Lebanon and mainly it has been fighting the Israeli armed forces. And of course there is the Shia Sunni divide between Hamas and Hezbollah.Hezbollah's flags look more popular: — neomac
National socialism surely was quite leftist, and hence the overwhelming vitriol against communism. Especially on the political left, competing ideologies are extreme enemies of each other.Was there ever a time when Fascism and Communism did not have a lot in common? Both are totalitarian ideologies right out of the box, and in their practical implementations they always gravitated towards each other. — SophistiCat
Oh, there's even on PF members to whom communism and the ideas of Marx appeal. If we talk about Marxism-Leninism, the official ideology of the Soviet Union, there's few if any that support that.With the above said, I want to ask, to whom would communism appeal towards, nowadays? Why or how has communism lost its appeal, if it really has? — Shawn
It's naturally not an apology. But it was an admission that civilians were killed. But hardly they feel or have anything to apologize given the multiple amount of dead Palestinians.Hamas's apology for 10/7 is absurd. — BitconnectCarlos
Don't go all in with the culture war discourse and put your brains out on the shelf. It is as silly as the talk from leftists about Trump supporters the racist alt-right neonazis.Hamas support is surprisingly present on college campuses, particularly elite universities. That is cause for worry. Hamas support/sympathy is more popular with the youth. Our future leaders. — BitconnectCarlos
You understand it perfectly clear. The basic issue here is the negative self-reference. And that issue is similar in Gödel's incompleteness theorem and Turings result (on the Entscheidungsproblem).Let me attempt to clarity: I'm attempting say I can't enact the negation of what I'm doing. →
→
Anything I write will not be something I do not write. — ucarr
For me uncertainty refers to a situation where you don't have all the information, for example. This isn't the case. You can have all the information, yet there's no way out of this. The reason is negative self-reference. And in the case of Gödel's theorems, it's not even a direct self-reference (the statement s is not provable). What should be noted that Gödel's incompleteness theorems are sound theorems, not paradoxes. Even if many relate it to being close to the Liar paradox.If a thing is not computable, thus causing attempted measurements to terminate in undecidability, is it sound reasoning to characterize this undecidability as uncertainty — ucarr
Why would it be not logical? The undecidability results are totally logical. Not all statements are provable and not everything is computable by a Turing Machine. It is totally logical. You can call them preemptive limitations, that's fine. So a Turing Machine has this "preemptive limitation" and hence it cannot compute everything.If so, then why is it not a logically preemptive limitation on what I can write? — ucarr
If there is any logical equivalence, mathematical incompleteness (or undecidability) would be something equivalent to the problem in physics of the measurement of an object effecting itself what is to be measured and hence ruining what was supposed to be an objective measurement in the first place. The undecidability results simply show that not all is computable (or in the case of Gödel's theorems, provable), even if there is a correct model for the true mathematical object (namely itself).Even though the parallel breaks down at b) incompleteness because, in the example, it's due to the entropy of electromagnetic transduction (albeit mathematically describable), nonetheless the physics of entropy causes the incompleteness and, in turn, the incompleteness causes the uncertainty. — ucarr
When it comes to the history of Syria and Lebanon, the French have been major influencers. Just like the British had a role with Mandate Palestine played a role in the conflict this thread is about.The French? Haha. — Tzeentch
You of course don't even notice that what you are promoting here, that "Israel is doomed" is a talking point of the islamofobes on the right.Zzz....Baseless insinuations of racism reeks of intellectual exhaustion and doesn't bode well for whatever else you have to bring to the table. — Tzeentch
Ummm... if a gun has an effective range of 2000 meters, the it can shoot 2000 meters forward and 2000 meters back. Guns, especially AAA can traverse 360 degrees. :snicker:No, they wouldn't. — Tzeentch
:rofl: :rofl: :joke: :razz: Have you any idea of the utter crazyness you are saying???AAA relies on line-of-sight, and engaging targets at equal elevation rarely happens at ranges exceeding 2 kms simply because of geographical factors. — Tzeentch
Artificially kept down? Have you any knowledge of Lebanese or Syrian history and the state their in? Oh, it's just the US that has put them there (of course by your thinking). You might put the blame more on the French than the US, actually.It is surrounded by Arab nations which have been artificially kept down by US power (regularly with Israel's help). The US could do that because it was the unipole, which it no longer is. — Tzeentch
How does it actually shift? By Egypt and the other neighbors having rapid growth, solving their structural problems and having booming economies and a highly educated labour force that then could make them to create armed forces that are capable of defeating the IDF?The problem for Israel is that it has given its neighbors every possible reason imaginable to not treat it kindly when the balance of power shifts. — Tzeentch
Yeah, well, AAA or any kind of Air Defence isn't designed how you think. And btw they would be 4 km bubbles. And that's just the GBAD, then there's the air force and it's fighters.Now, Israel is a tiny country, but if you have to create a defense network out of 2km bubbles I think you see the problem. This is simply not what AAA was designed for. — Tzeentch
In a world that doesn't believe in whimsical replacement theories like you. Israelis have far enough incentives to defend their country. Somehow you seem not to understand this, perhaps being yourself a citizen of a country that faces no existential threat from it's neighbors. It might hard for you to fathom this. For Israelis it isn't hard at all.In what world is it not obvious Israel is not going to survive the test of time? — Tzeentch
Never has anybody thought of "decisively defeating" its adversaries. What would that mean?This is a long-winded way of saying Israel has no way of decisively defeating its adversaries, and therefore no long-term solutions for the problems that plague its borders, which was exactly my point. — Tzeentch
A simply ZU-23-2 has an effective range to 2200 meters and larger guns usually to something like 5 kilometers. A gatling-gun type system can be far more devastating for even a swarm of drones. Let's just remember that first uses of drones were to be practice targets or tow a target sock for AAA. And altitude you ask? Well, usually AAA can shoot ground targets too, so low flying drones can fly as low as possible.And what do you reckon is the effective engagement range of AAA firing against low-flying drones? — Tzeentch
And your consistently failing to describe the way that somehow they would lose the ability to control the area they have taken in 1967. Or earlier. How will Israel perish you fail utterly to say, only repeat that in the long run they will lose.Oh, they might be ok with it. But they will also lose that war in the long-term. — Tzeentch
No I'm not. Your simply not understanding, it is as simple as that.You're contradicting yourself. According to your own views Israel cannot go on the offensive, thus cannot rely on pre-emptive attacks to protect itself. — Tzeentch
You have absolutely no idea of air defense or weapon systems like the Patriot. And you simply don't read what I write.Drone warfare has greatly undermined lynchpins of Western air defense systems like Patriot, since the drones are too cheap and numerous to effectively combat them. — Tzeentch
It cannot occupy, hold the land for long of it's neighbors. That is different from going on the offensive. It does go on the offensive... basically daily. How many times Israel has made air strikes in Syria during the Syrian Civil war and even before it? Multiple times, so many times I've lost count. Hence it can indeed go on the offensive.As you have said yourself, Israel cannot go on the offensive, and neither can the US. So it's a forever war. — Tzeentch
Now @Tzeentch seems to be in his la-la-land dream. Seems you have absolutely no idea of just what neutrality means for a country. No idea.Obviously they do. Imagine not seeing the US as a military threat.
The US has invaded less important countries over nothing. You bet your ass they view the US as a threat. — Tzeentch
(30th July, 2024) President Joe Biden spoke today with President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva of Brazil to discuss a range of bilateral and regional issues, including the emerging political situation in Venezuela following the July 28 presidential election. President Biden thanked President Lula for his leadership on Venezuela. The two leaders agreed on the need for immediate release of full, transparent, and detailed voting data at the polling station level by the Venezuelan electoral authorities. The two leaders shared the perspective that the Venezuelan election outcome represents a critical moment for democracy in the hemisphere, and they pledged to remain in close coordination on the issue. The presidents also committed to deepen cooperation between our two countries on accelerating the clean energy transition and to continue advancing the Partnership for Workers’ Rights, which they launched together on the margins of last year’s United Nations General Assembly to empower workers and combat some of the most significant issues facing working people.
The relationship between the United States and India is one of the most strategic and consequential of the 21st century. The United States supports India’s emergence as a leading global power and a vital partner in promoting a peaceful, stable, and prosperous Indo-Pacific region. The 2+2 Ministerial Dialogue between the U.S. Secretaries of State and Defense and their Indian counterparts is the premier recurring dialogue mechanism between the United States and India. Through the 2+2 mechanism, U.S. and Indian officials advance a wide range of initiatives across the breadth of the United States-India partnership.
Defense and Security
The United States and India have established a strong defense industrial cooperation that looks at opportunities for co-development and co-production of important military capabilities for both our countries.
Earlier this year, the United States approved a pathbreaking manufacturing license for the co-production of GE F414 engines in India.
Looking to the future, the United States and India have launched an educational series that prepares startups and young innovators to contribute to the defense industries in both countries. The United States and India also cooperate through the bilateral U.S.-India Counterterrorism Joint Working Group and the Defense Policy Group.
Right from the start of his political career Putin's favorite move has been war. It's an integral part of how Putin's policy. Right from the start.Why did Putin do it then? Is it because he would have eventually lost power if he worked on making Russia healthy? — frank
Of course!Won't Russia become more and more hollowed out economically? — frank
Hence it's easy to defend.Israel is the size of a post stamp. — Tzeentch
Hence the urge for "Pre-emptive" attacks: simply fight on your neighbors territory. As Israel has done.It has zero strategic depth. — Tzeentch
When you achieve strategic surprise, then Hamas was able to do October 7th. The lack of air defense equipment was not the only thing lacking then on October 7th. But Israel today isn't what it was pre- Oct 7th.Hamas alone was able to drain Israel's air defense system to critical lows in a couple of days. Hamas - they're nobody on the military power scale. — Tzeentch
Incredible bullshit. Where general @Tzeentch gets his facts I don't know.Against modern swarming tactics Israel's air defense would stand no chance. At that point, it becomes a sitting duck. — Tzeentch
Why would it be an Afghanistan-like quagmire? As I've stated, Israel won't occupy it's neighboring states. I think they learnt that lesson from "Peace for Galilee" hence any operation into Lebanon will likely also have a planned withdrawal.It would need a US intervention, but what is the US going to do? Stick its head into an Afghanistan-like quagmire x100? That's the BRICS wet dream - for the US to commit to the mother of all forever wars trying to protect Israel. — Tzeentch
Well over for 100 years... so I'm not holding my breath.It is the problem. It's an ongoing problem. — BitconnectCarlos
A large portion of the world sympathizing with it and even considering it justified? Really????What happened on 10/7 was - and I don't use this word lightly - straight-up demonic. Yet you have a large portion of the world sympathizing with it and even considering it justified. — BitconnectCarlos
Indeed. Yet annexing territory is one of the most difficult things for any state to get acceptance from other states. Just look at the response of Russia annexing parts of Ukraine. Or Morocco with Spanish Sahara.Which in all fairness has already been achieved at some points. — BitconnectCarlos
UK isn't in the EU, btw.Despite all this, it's still far better than the system they have in the EU, where in some countries they are arresting people for what they post online—freedom of speech there is no longer a human right, despite what history has taught them. — NOS4A2