I just gotta say that what is introduced in §1 is the theory that ostension is the basis of language; that what follows shows that ostension is already part of a language game; and that hence the theory presented in §1 is incomplete.
The text at the point we are up to now is looking at another supposed basis for language, simples or atoms or whatever. Again, it is being shown that to name a simple is already to engage in a language game. And hence, again, the theory that language has its basis in simples is incomplete.
Having read ahead a bit, I would say that so it goes, until it is pointed out that there is a way of understanding a rule that is not given by articulating the rule, but shown in following the rule.
And this is why doing trumps saying, use trumps meaning. — Banno
Thanks John Doe, I prefer an explanation over StreelightX's derision. The last quote is actually 38 rather than 35. — Metaphysician Undercover
Heh, I'm basically doing one subsection a night, and at this rate, it ought to take about two years or so lol. But hopefully not every section will demand commentary. — StreetlightX
But we determined that in Witty's usage, rules are not necessary for games. Likewise, to me "grammar" usually implies "rules which govern language use". You seem to be using this word to refer simply to "language use" in general, a broad sense without regard for rules. — Metaphysician Undercover
I'd be down for Riemann and Kant and would lead the discussion on Riemann if you'd have this ignorant schoolmaster's musings. I hope StreetlightX finds the time to lead the discussion on Kant. That would be a cool thread. — fdrake
What about Husserl? He's one of those thinkers on my "meant to get to" list. — Moliere
I don't mean to derail the reading group, but having read the thread so far, I'd really like to know what people think Wittgenstein was trying to do by writing PI. It seems that a lot of posters are drawing conclusions as if they knew without first establishing why they've reached that conclusion. — Ciaran
I don't know why you would characterize my reply to Terrapin as shouting, maybe because of the force of the comment, I'm not sure. In fact, I tried to inject a bit of humor into the comment. — Sam26
Hah, well, considering I read the PI as a Critique of Pure Language, I'm not exactly concealing my 'Kantian aggression' here. But it's important not to get too caught up in things here - I simply meant a paraphrase of this: — StreetlightX
Hmm, I can't say I really recognize this in Witty - how language structures meaning (which is in turn structured by our forms-of-life), yes, [...] I've already read Witty as a linguistic materalist par excellence. Maybe this will come out in the reading more as we go along. — StreetlightX
Experience might not be the right term, it's probably too broad. What I mean is how it makes possible different ways of seeing and acting within the world. — Πετροκότσυφας
In fact, I wonder what you will get out of reading the PI if you don't understand this central point. — Sam26
What would be your approach to a topic like time or infinity? These subjects are so broad. with such varied perspectives. — Metaphysician Undercover
I think Merleau Ponty is interesting. I haven't seen his name mentioned on these forums for a long time. Let me know what you think about his works? — Wallows
I think, as a Wittgensteinian, the problems of people are mainly psychological or what we tell ourselves. — Wallows
It's a matter of identifying with a new voice in your head and listening to it instead of the incessant critic or what others would call a demon. Socrates talked about listening to his daemon. — Wallows
The opposite, though these words are used in such myriad ways that it might not be worth it to go to the bother of attempting to use the terms.So, you don't think we can empathize with someone seriously and quaintly considering suicide? Only sympathize? — Wallows
Yea. It's in the works. But I grant, it doesn't work well in soundbites. But I am tempted. It'll have to do with degrees of certainty, though (none of which will be absolute). — javra
No, my intuition has little if anything to do with it. Materialism is self-contradictory to that which appraises its truth: the presence of awareness. — javra
The strange thing about the general prohibition against suicide is that seeking help from loved ones or even a clinic (ie. exposing the problem) also feels taboo to a lot of people.
To be suicidal and seek help is to admit to being weak and the stigma of being weak (dependent) is looked down on in our individualist culture. — Nils Loc
Maybe, maybe not. I suggest postponing judgement on the matter. — Ying
I already am. Now what? — Ying
On Certainty is fantastic. Every time I came back to it, I'm blown away. The sensitivity with which Witty approaches language is just unmatched in it. — StreetlightX
In Europe we have a higher average IQ and education, however Americans get to have a more reasonable, useful government. — DiegoT
Angry Americans should try and live in Europe, then they could appreciate more their advantages. — DiegoT
I have not blamed, merely presented — tim wood
that represents a community — tim wood
the community itself, willy-nilly, is burdened and remains burdened until and unless it finds a way to throw off that burden. — tim wood
Lots of communities have such burdens imposed. In the US, for example, of historic slavery and current racism. It becomes incumbent on us in the US and me individually and as much as possible and as soon as possible to repudiate and eliminate racism and substantively and finally address the historic issues of slavery. Germans labor with Nazism, with some success, in their passage of certain laws and certain efforts at retributive and rehabilitative justice. — tim wood
I am well-persuaded that most middle-easterners take their respective cultural practices personally and seriously. — tim wood