But are you saying it's tyrannical to not allow businesses to refuse to hire someone on the basis of their race, gender, nationality etc? — Baden

It would have to be quite provable, otherwise it is tyrannical. Beyond all doubt. Competence over race.

Quote me where I contradicted myself then. What I said above is a criticism of your argument not an expression of mine. I explained my position very clearly. This is just bad reading comprehension. — Baden

You agreed law should be kept out of a private person's, including the operation of their private business, right to discriminate as to who to serve as customers.

The "customers", in the gay wedding cake case, is the specific customer of which desired a gay wedding cake.

A gay person who just, say, wants a birthday cake, is a completely different customer to that of a person wanting a gay wedding cake.

The Christian baker merely has a discriminatory and different view than you, or me for that matter.

The Red Hen owner had a different view to Sanders. The Red Hen owner had a discriminatory view of Sanders.

This is all fine by me.

And it gets publicized with which other people have opinions and with which they may take such opinions to the ballot box.

All the while THE LAW keeps it's potentially tyrannical hands off of it, just as it should have prior to the civil rights era.

Maybe things are simpler for you because you have a tendency to conflate and ignore nuance. Sanders was refused on the basis of her behaviour not her group. No issue concerning discrimination. A person who doesn't want to write on a gay wedding cake may object due to their religious beliefs and there is an issue concerning discrimination but it's muddied by the fact that they may still want to serve gay customers but feel uncomfortable exclusively about the institution of gay marriage. Someone who refuses someone on the basis of their race is a racist and definitely engaging in discrimination, which shouldn't be allowed. — Baden

You cannot make having racist views a criminal offense. This is why government should not be granted more power than necessary in order to keep it's propensity for tyranny restrained.

Pointing out that discrimination used to be embedded in law is about the worst argument you could possibly make for having anti-discrimination not embedded in law. — Baden

You just agreed with me about the gay wedding cake. You're all over the place, bro.

That said, this whole issue is a non-story. A powerful, wealthy, public facing woman, who works for an administration that separates families, was denied food at a restaurant. Boo-hoo. No one should care — Maw

I don't actually care either. I agree with the progress of the civil rights movement to get government out of the way of private business's approach to their own customers where no violence is implicated or carried out.

If the Red Hen won't serve anybody they don't like then they should not have to be forced to. But the consequence can still be that their stance could be broadcast.

And anyway, after all, they probably wanted their stance broadcasted in order to show their non-support of Trump. Correct?

Actually, Sanders violated 5 CFR 2635.702 by complaining on her official Press Secretary Account. — Maw

This maybe true. I suppose it could be looked into and judged accordingly. By the way, she didn't complain in her tweet but rather described what actually took place.

It has been others, such as her father, that complained of the treatment.

It's a gray area for me at that level. — Baden

It is hardly a grey area, surely.

Prior to the civil rights protests of the 50's white business people were enforced legally to not serve black people.

Of course many wanted to serve black customers.

So to my mind it shows how dangerous it is to grant government the power to tell private business owners who they should serve and who they should not serve.

And I say if you think he's not aware of the effect of his words, you are extremely naive about the nature of politicians. Maybe you just have a rosier view of them than me. That's your prerogative. — Baden

Personal responsibility as to how one sees his words. The "effect" of his words could be such that people are even more persuaded to vote against those other politicians who advocate, like Maxine Waters, to harass administration officials whilst they eat at restaurants.

So yeah, Huckabee is just doing what a political type does.

The "brain" sees a tree. Is the tree "outside" of the brain?

Interesting, I believe so though yes, I also think Harris would likely say the same so it's unlikely the world view he's espousing. — Blake Kelson

So the tree is arising WITHIN consciousness but is "outside" the brain?

What I don't understand about this is how depersonalization is a more accurate depiction of reality? This 6:26, Consciousness is formed from various parts of the brain, correct? Although there is no central point your consciousness is emanating, it still originates from the brain not outside it — Blake Kelson

The "brain" sees a tree. Is the tree "outside" of the brain?

So, do you support the administration's concerted attack on this small business owner? — Baden

I support their right to complain.

So if you support rejecting customers who have different political positions to the restaurant staff and/or owner do you therefore support a right for a Christian baker not to bake a gay wedding cake?

I didn't say he stated that. If I wanted to say that I would have said it. You can intend to do something without stating that you intend to do it — Baden

So yeah, Huckabee he did not say that. He also did not obviously "intend" to do what he did not say.

The restaurant has already been attacked by the way. A protester has already been arrested after throwing manure at it, which in itself is not so serious but I doubt it's going to end there given the continuing intimidation — Baden

Good that he protester got arrested. Personal responsibility, and all that.

This is legitimate outrage in reverse, those who literally run the entire country trying to mobilize violence against a small business owner in order to scare others into not taking the same stand — Baden

I did not see a Huckabee quote showing he wants to "mobilize violence against a small business owner".

Could you give me specific directions to this supposed statement?

And do you agree with the stand the restaurant took against Sanders?

Ah yes. The KKK.

Democrat senator Robert Byrd founded a KKK chapter. In very recent times Hillary Clinton revealed how Byrd was an inspirational mentor of hers.

Pretty hilarious of Mike Pence to ask South American countries to respect our borders because America "respects their borders and sovereignty" given the history we've had of installing or backing dictatorships in various South American countries, including the Northern Triangle, where many immigrants are escaping gang violence. — Maw

Yeah, and under the watch of every previous administration. Did you just wake up a little bit?

What did you think Hillary Clinton was going to carry on with?

And it is not as if Mexican governments have not been corrupt, along with so many other South American governments.

Good luck finding and securing the bubble you seek.

An outright lie. The Trump administration changed the policy on January 25th 2018. — Akanthinos

The processes of vetting adults and children who are caught crossing illegally by temporarily separating them in order to do this have not changed. Remember? This has been the supposed issue the media and opposition have been attacking

Sure, other proposals have been adopted or are proposed to be adopted going forward (some being prospective, not retroactive, according to that document). It is hardly controversial that a new administration makes changes in how they administrate.


Now in that document you presented it does not contain those words “zero tolerance”.

As I stated. Trump’s political words.

“Zero tolerance” is a political word game at this point. A trump word game.

The actual processes at the border are the same now as they have been for years.

The first step is admitting you have a problem. — Jeremiah

The actual “problem”, seems to me, to be YOUR problem. Therefore it is your problem to solve. Your projection of your problem is merely cast in my direction.

The advent of this problem of yours is the immediate jump you made as a consequence of a default reflex. Certain words I used appears to have triggered this reflex.

The reflex thus triggered by certain words created a mis-ordering of the words. The reflex changed their order.

I initially felt required (in order to try to help you, perhaps, consider this default reflex), work backwards as a consequence of your reflexive jump.

Working backwards may look to a default-reflex-pattern (what you manifested as in that moment) as my being defensive.

But this wasn’t my motivation.


The “reflexive jump” created a chasm within which I attempted to fill, for you, with my explanation.

If you were not so default inclined this is not something I would probably have not needed to attempt to do.


It appears that in essence “you” are defending your default reflex. (“You” still manifesting AS that default reflex).

A default reflex will not inspect itself. The “problem” you face, but seemingly choose not to, is one of identification (you as it) WITH the reflex.

The resolution to such a problem is to not identify AS the default reflex. This, therefore, is a problem of emotion.

You are either one with emotions or you are manifesting AS any particular emotion.

However with regard to a discussion about immigration and illegal immigration it is not necessary that it be a pro-Trump vs an anti-Trump debate. Take whoever the president happens to be away the debate will always still remain.

Have any of you ever dissuaded a Christian into no longer being a Christian?

Why bother?

Believe whatever suits your arrested state of consciousness. What real choice do you have? You don’t choose. Choosing takes ability.

Just be that.

Although I haven’t made any. This is what I mean by your belief system.

I’ve answered your questions on this now.

If the LBGT community stopped being its own separate island — wellwisher

Although there is no “LGBT community”, A handful of loud activists who claim to speak, without being voted to do so via some democratic selection process by a nation or world of gay people etc, are not of a so-called whole community.

The belief system that says opposition to what corporate media pumps out on behalf of government Corp must inherently be racist/fascist/xenophobe etc, etc.

Adolescent, boring goon-speak, essentially.

I appreciate that evolution happens very slowly, but I don't see how knowing a quark from a boson can help make it any more likely that I will survive to produce more offspring. — Ron Besdansky

I'm not able to see a correlation here.

This is not a meeting of the minds. — Greta

I see. This is all you look for rather than test your own hypotheses?

Have you tried dating sites?

DNA comparison is extremely easy and quick to verify. — Maw

For all I know they could be conducting such tests.

Regardless, vetting these people separately from the children they happen to be caught with has been going on for years.

You are making your racism very clear. — Jeremiah

Same reply for you;

It is nothing more than your belief system.

I can't, and won't bother to try to, dissuade a christian from being a christian and I am equally disinterested in attempting to dissuade you from your belief system

It's telling here that your go-to analogy for undocumented immigration is rape. — Maw

It is nothing more than your belief system.

I can't, and won't bother to try to, dissuade a christian from being a christian and I am equally disinterested in attempting to dissuade you from your belief system.

perhaps, then, one should ask for clarification rather than have their emotions run away with them.

On the subject of pedophiles and child trafficking and as it may relate to separating, albeit briefly (if family relationships can be ascertained as a consequence of investigation), adults from children:

Tragically there is a large market for young children for pedophile networks. The most desirable kids toward this end are undocumented. This is so that once they are finished with, served their pupose, they are most easily disappeared.

This is a great cover for pedophiles. No evidence.

Many times adults abduct children and then pretend they are their parents.

Because the adults also have no documents it becomes wise, in order to protect these kids, to separate them and investigate these people.

No documents often means it is very difficult to ascertain relationships.

In my opinion, rape is wrong. If caught raping there will likely be negative consequences for the rapist.

Border jumpers know they may risk negative legal consequences. They KNOW this.

They KNOW it is legally wrong.

From many, many legal immigrant’s point of view, border jumping is wrong particularly as it negatively impacts on the legal immigrant.

I don’t try to control people. You may mark me as anything you want. I know my mind.

I may have some opinions about your behavior. Do you care that I may do?

A victim of who or what?

A victim has to be a victim of something, right?

Your nonsense has entertainment value, I suppose.

But your nonsense is classic of today.

Nothing to back out of. You read what you wanted into it. I’ve already explained.

Someone cannot be reasonably or rationally considered to be racist, in the context of an immigration discussion, if that same someone welcomes any race to legally immigrate.

However it is your thing, if you so desire, to be irrational and unreasonable.

Perhaps you are feeling a bit hurt.

It’s up to you. You be whatever you want to be.

Ok. I’ll let you know whether you understood.

No, you didn’t.

I’m not a victim merely for repeating what you assumed me to be.

The topic of racism was not introduced by me. I was merely commenting on what was introduced.

Is that not how this works?

It’s a fashionable narrative to believe in for you. Those who think borders are important are apparently racist which goes along with the media narrative containing deliberate fabrications for your eager compnsumption.

“ I don't know that for sure. It's juts an educated guess.”

An education might be a good idea for you.