I think social agreements are very important. Are you saying they are not?

Don't forget Islam. Jews were opposed to Greek nudity and their females had to be virgins to assure the child would be the man's child because only the man's child had inheritance rights. Christianity and Islam carry on Jewish notions. All are intensely opposed to homosexuality and all want women to be virgins and under the control of men.

That was fun reading but a little of topic. :rofl: How about a thread "does the clothing make the man?"
I am sure with all of us we could come up with interesting things to say. Like for sure dude, those Romans in their metal and leather uniforms are sexy. :love:

Love and war and sex appeal.

And for penis envy- yeah I think Freud got it wrong, however, I do think having a penis would make peeing easier. I think of the breast envy women can have. It makes sense to be proud of a large penis, or breast, as that signals I am a better man or woman. I am sure this reasoning is good in the animal world and although we may not reason things this way, some things are below our reasoning. Oh, oh I think once upon a time, there was male womb envy, when the goddess was the most important and perhaps only god. Wow is this on topic or off topic?

I am quite sure male domination was the result of having to defend permanent territory. A result of farming. We may have been more like bonobo than chimpanzees. Female domination is possible and leads to different social behavior. :lol: The big concern about colored people taking over is overlooking what female domination could do to us and maybe that is the greater threat to the status quo.

PS when men watch football their testosterone level rises and they become more aggressive.

For sure. Christianity is blended of paganism. It was put together with Roman Law of Nature. That isn't a study of nature, but a legal tool taking what is common between separate city/states to make legal decisions involving the persons from different city/states. It was their way of knowing truth. The reasoning was if most people believed something was true, it is true. Putting all the truths together in one religion was just pragmatic. But now we are getting off topic, so maybe we should a different thread for this?

Regarding freedom of speech Thomas Paine did not get the honor he deserves because he was a deist and Christians considered this as bad as being atheist, so he was not honored with statues as others were. What Christians have done to those who do not share their faith is terrible. The biggest challenge to John Kennedy when he became president was to overcome Protestant prejudice against Catholics, and we are still dealing with prejudice against Jews. Should not we address this in a discussion of freedom of speech?

And there has to be life after death, because surely I am not a 72 old women, and what is seen as an old woman is only a delusion. The reality is I am a young, attractive and physically fit woman, who wants to be a physically attractive and fit male in my next incarnation. There is absolutely no way I will have the benefits of being a male with my present body.

I love your post! :love:

You said "The Greeks particularly worshipped Priapus, a fertility God, whose symbol was an erect penis. These Priapic statues were very common inside and outside buildings. In one invasion, the soldiers snapped off all the stone erections they found -- a clear enough message. We won; you lost. We modern people who haven't worshipped fertility gods are not likely to get what the little dildo-ike sculptures meant to the ancient people."

I think we should look to the east to improve our understanding of the ancients. In the East we have a better record of the importance of yin and yang. I think we will find, wherever a society was militarized the importance of males and maleness is exaggerated and nothing symbolizes this better than a large penis. For a woman, the equivalent would be large breast. Rape also goes with war. Domination being all important. While the woman is the passive cow and object of male domination and the male is the bull, representing strength and power, an object of worship in many ancient civilizations.

According to a book I have about the history of Chinese sexuality, there was a period when the ruler increased his yang by watching people being tortured. There was also a tribe that practiced extremely rare socially accept incent. Because hunting rhinos is so dangerous, men prepared for this by having sex with their daughters. We have held the notion that males should not decrease their aggressive energy by having sex before a game. Whatever, there is a connection between sexual behaviors and a social need for highly aggressive males.

The Spartan social organization that made male and military relationships more important than heterosexual and family relationships is an interesting contrast to Athens and our own society. The male and male relationships would not do well in Rome where the father was all important! Rome was a better ground for the Christian notion of a Father in Heaven than other places. I don't think the Hebrew God is a father and the Hebrews surely would not have worshiped a holy mother. The Catholics raising the female to an important spiritual/God position is interesting.

I absolutely loved that! I remember having to wear short skirts and how painfully cold my legs got in winter. I complained to my mother and she sent me to school in pants and the school told her not to send me to school in pants again. I couldn't even wear long skirts because at that time, only older girls could wear long skirts. When I was old enough to wear long skirts, the style was wearing very short skirts. I rebelled and have a closet full of long skirts. By God, no was going to take the privilege of dressing like a woman from me. :lol:

Wearing those short skirts made no sense at all because it was just awful if a boy saw our underwear. Have you ever played on the play equipment at an elementary school in a short skirt? My wonderful mother resolved that problem by making me bloomers to wear under my skirts. The dress we have forced on women over the years was truly handicapping! And while I am uncomfortable with a male dressing like a woman, I am perfectly comfortable dressing like a man. Gardening in a dress is most unpleasant.

I have a delightful book arguing God prefers women have long hair. Seriously this is said in the Bible! Women who want to please God should not cut their hair.

Another of my old books is about us having the freedom to be women. I have a problem with not protecting women and children, but leaving them as unprotected as barbarians and forcing women to be as men. I think women's lib destroys our freedom to be women, and that this has a lot to do with the large number of females who think they are homosexual and are strongly against us doing the body care things women have done for a long time. We have become free to be as men, but not different and equal. That goes with it being okay for a woman to wear pants but men shouldn't wear skirts.

We have been through a long run of men's clothing being absolutely boring. How about these fashions?
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHKZ_enUS481US483&biw=1024&bih=710&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=GJkSXNi6Ioa-0PEP3a2WgAQ&q=men%27s+fashion+riegn+or+louis+&oq=men%27s+fashion+riegn+or+louis+&gs_l=img.12...111894.146972..151593...2.0..0.120.3320.15j18......1....1..gws-wiz-img.......0j0i67j0i30j0i10.ZNQFq16QJVA

Our sexuality and social rules is one of the most interesting things we can about.

I will point out there is a difference between our private lives and being public. Our new technology has seriously disrupted the privacy we once had, and this lead to many questions about our social rules.

Like our roads have rules to protect everyone, societies have rules. I have a strong preference for those rules being based on reason rather than religion, and a very strong preference for privacy. I think those rules are good in advancing trust and reducing fear. I hope we can speak more about this. If I think you are like me, I am not afraid of you. However, when I think you are different from me I have all kinds of fears. What will you do and how should I behave? Today a lot of people are loosing their jobs and some are even incarcerated because we do not have agreement on the rules. You don't have sex unless you are married and then you have sex only that person, makes sexual decisions very simple, and that helps people keep their jobs and stay out of prison.

Our liberty goes with the notion that decent people follow the rules, so we do not need authority over the people to make people do the right thing. And again, I will bring up the importance of privacy. These issues were intense in the conflict between Sparta and Athens and for sure their sexual morals were not compatible with Hebrew morality. :rofl: The Jews became much more concerned about educating their sons, when their sons began behaving like Greeks. :gasp:

How about this- the best thing we can do for humanity is expanding their awareness of others, while at the same time having rules for their sense of security because when people feel safe, they are not afraid and relationships are better. Rules can change but perhaps changing the reasoning before forcing a change is a good idea?

Just curious what sorts of things you see as examples of the above? — Terrapin Station

Whoo, that is an awfully big subject! Right now I am bothered by what looks sexual confusion to me. So many people don't appear to know what they are and what they want to be. I am not opposed to homosexuality but really, some men trying to be women won't succeed any more than I can pass as a teenager. I don't like being an old wrinkled person but I have to live with that, and some dark-skinned people may want to be white and that could lead to a lot of trouble. It is not just that trying to be what we are not, can be a problem for us, but also it can be a problem for those engage with us. Out of this comes pain, distrust, fear, and these lives can become unbearable to those lives them. :rofl: Looking 30 years younger would be a huge improvement in my self-image and ideas about what I can do with my life, but that ain't going to happen, so I look in the mirror and tell myself I look just the way a grandma should look. If I had magic wishes I would wish for everyone to be happy with who they are.

I don't think I want to get into an argument about how men think and how women think. I will just clarify I am a woman and we have fought for a couple of hundred years for respect. That fight has really heated up and the tension between men and woman right now is concerning. I am shocked by the number of men who have lost their careers because of something they said to a woman, or a touch. When women are so angry they will intentionally destroy a man's career, there is a problem.

Exercising self-control is something that is learned and this is not as simple as knowing 10 steps for dealing with anger. Technological knowledge for managing anger does not equal the ability to do so. It takes repeated effort to change our thinking habits and responses. How one fantasizes about men or women or children or animals will probably influence how one reacts. To each his own said the lady as she kissed the cow. Just know our thinking habits influence our emotional responses, It can be really, really hard to get teenagers to focus on the school work, but those who do are likely to have better life choices than those who don't. When we make public decisions, we need to consider everyone, not just ourselves. However, what happens behind closed doors is private.

Those are excellent statements but I thought you also said democracy is the problem. I think we need to be careful about that because when we say democracy is the problem, or modern democracy is the problem, then we undermine the will to defend democracy. Our democracy for sure has problems, however, it is not the problem.

A strong democracy must have a strong education to manifest the characteristics of democracy. A strong democracy requires liberal education at the primary school level. The young must be prepared to be free people, that is a liberal education. Education for technology that sees our young as something we prepare to be products for industry is not education for free people. I keep repeating that because Oregon had a mayor who got people to vote for taxes for schools by saying our young are products to prepare for industry. Oregon made itself dependent on outside investors like a third world country, and this mentality is coming from the world bank. Our reality is undermining our democracy, but the problem is not democracy. I don't think people are aware of anything regarding education except it is tied to individuals and communities making money. Defending our democracy in the classroom just is not a concept we hold. We are taking our democracy for granted and that is a mistake. Now we are criticizing democracy and making matters worse!

However, what are saying needs to be said, as long as it doesn't appear to find fault with democracy. That may seem really picky but as I struggle to raise awareness of what democracy is and that our democracy is threatened, making the picky distinction seems important to me.

I want to stress our forefathers were fanatical about science and that was tied to ideas of liberty. Science would trump the Trump if people understood what science has to do with our liberty, and that as citizens of a democracy they need to be informed of the scientific point of view. We need to reawaken the connection between science and good moral judgment and science and democracy and liberty. A liberal education is not devoid of science. We must not confuse scientific thinking with education for technology and for a high tech society with unknown values, that accepts education as a means to prepare the young to be products for industry. We have a lot of thinking errors to clear up if we are going to save our democracy.

My concern is that, in general, we have trashed human dignity and made everything meaningless. We have created anarchy and because anarchy becomes intolerable there is pressure to go to the other extreme of excessive control. When people are not self-controlled, the pressure to control them increases. Like a well-behaved dog does not need to be kept on a leash, but an untrained dog needs to be on a leash. What rules the individual, physical urges or the mind?

I don't know? The way you worded that sounds appealing to me. I think there are lines to be drawn, but I am not sure where those lines should be drawn. I think science might have something to say about the positive and negative effects of explicit sexual scenes. Clearly, some is called art and some is called pornography and perhaps the effect of these two is different? My concern is cheapening our humanness and playing to fantasies that are abusive, or believing hurtful acts are okay if that is what one wants to do. How art expressing intimacy can also bring out the best in us.

As for limits on freedom of expression, I most certainly think civil people are ruled by reason and not their impulses. But Trump is not a good example of this.

I do not believe it is good for society to make intimate behavior public. I also am not at all in favor of freedom of expression. I am strongly in favor of freedom of speech that is about reasoning, but not about cussing and saying offensive things. As I see it, it is only the freedom to reason that needs to be protected, and that is protected by not violating rules of human decency. I am really glad to read others seem to have this point of view.

Please consider what education has to do with the change in our democracy. I am asking you this, because we need a revolution and to take back the control of our schools. This is an incredibly difficult challenge because poorly informed people are not the people we want in charge. However, those who understand democracy and the relationship of education to democracy need to take control of education, and before this can happen, the number, and power, of these people has to be greater than the Military Industrial Complex that got control of our democracy following WWII, and turned us into what we defended our democracy against.

How can awareness of what happened, be increased? There are possible organizational changes that could be made, but most important is returning public education to education for democracy and replacing autocratic industry with democratic industry. The enemy of the people rarely was invaders. The enemy of the people since the beginning of civilization has mostly been those who took the controlling positions on the one hand, and on the other hand, ignorance of the people. Voting for a Lion King President is simply ignorance. I am afraid Christianity is not compatible with democracy? God is not sending us great leaders to take care of us. We must rely on ourselves.

Trump seems to stand for individualism but not for reasoning, and that leads to violence as push leads to shove. He calls someone who does not stand strong with a lie, weak, attacking those who do not please him with shame and lost power to do their jobs. He and Bush are proud about taking action without thinking and without consulting others. This behavior is not compatible with democracy. Republicans seem to be Christian and like having the power and glory of God, but their morals are not compatible with democracy, which is shared power and glory. George Washington at no time boosted he was the best.

I love your post. :love: But, but being stupid idiots is not about being a democracy! Far from it! The whole point of democracy is having good judgment! :cry: What am I doing wrong? No one understands what I say of education. Seriously, if I were speaking with people of my grandmothers day, I think they would understand what I am saying, instead of defending education for technology. How horribly paradoxical it is that people think I am opposed to knowing what is vitally important, and then tell me democracy is about being stupid idiots.

Why are we not sharing the belief that democracy is about being well informed and empowered to make the best possible decisions?

The problem with democracy that wrote of is a failure to understand democracy. The Greeks loved their public works. It is what we the people do, not what I, your major or your president does.

BrianW, I would love to get my hands on the book you read.

Are you aware of the importance of the Greek and Roman classics that were the foundation of liberal education? No one understood democracy until there was literacy is Greek and Roman classics. A correct understanding of our equality does not come from the Christian bible but from the Greek gods who were all gods and very different. The people of Athens believed we were made in the image of the gods because of our capacity for reason. As a bird is born to fly, humans are born to reason, and because they have the capacity for reasoning they can live by reason. For them to do this, they must be civilized. Rural people are not civilized people. (I don't mean today's people, but in the past, people living outside of cities just didn't have information available to them and did not realize any need for it.)

Interestingly the Iroquois Confederacy also lived with a belief that a man taught them to live by reason, and they also influenced the development of our federal government.

Cicero is essential reading. The Roman statesman explains that only when we live by reason, do things go well, and to not care about universal law and living by the law is ignorance. Our democracy is not just about equality, but about knowing the laws of nature and basing our decisions on them. If we understood the source of our democracy and the importance of science to our democracy, there is no way we would continue to contribute to global warming because in the moment that is what is best for our economy. We are violating the laws of nature and denying the consequences and that is not being a good democracy.

Going on this information

Πετροκότσυφας
973 — Πετροκότσυφας

I found this fascinating account of Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam books that were covered in jewels and destroyed in disasters.
http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20180111-the-rubaiyat-historys-most-luxurious-book-of-poetry
That comes to this possible author of the book....
FitzGerald’s rendition of the Rubáiyát

Okay, and how did this change happen? Our local newspaper was privately owned until just recently. It is called the Register Gaurd because we had an understanding of what freedom of speech and being well informed has to do with defending our democracy. Do you remember the old journalist who believed they were giving our nation a great service by informing citizens and doing investigative reporting? That was an important cultural difference, and that begins with education teaching the principles of democracy and preparing every single citizen to defend that democracy.

People keep defending education for technology and they are missing the point! I love technology and I think we are on the verge of huge improvements because of technology. Computers are better at making some decisions that affect our lives because they can hold vastly more information than a human, and they are unbiased. We absolutely should know how every inch of land in our cities is used, and have accurate measurements of every resource and the management of things like trash and sewage, with accurate measures of our populations and room for growth. We are making decisions based on limited personal experience and personal interest, and not facts, and we seem to be clueless about our thinking errors! :scream: Technology can mean better decision making than ever before possible, along with a whole lot of other benefits. I was born crippled and medical technology resolved that problem and gave me a normal life. I love technology! :love:

There is no problem with education for technology, except it stopped transmitting the culture we need to defend our democracy. When we stopped transmitting our culture we unleashed autocracy. We have autocratic industry and the majority don't even know the democratic model. If we had education for democracy and democratic industry, we would resolve most of our problems.

What is happening in the minds of those who think our president should be as the Lion King instead of every single citizen being prepared for democracy? Our military can not defend our democracy as education can.

Okay, I am dying to know how you came to that notion of democracy and the mention of what science and (rule by reason) have to do with democracy and liberty. What thinking are you building upon? Where did that thinking originate?

You said there is more to democracy and I am very stressed about not everyone understanding what you said. Government is only part of democracy.

"Democracy is a way of life and social organization which above all others is sensitive to the dignity and worth of the individual human personality, affirming the fundamental moral and political equality of all men and recognizing no barriers of race, religion, or circumstance." (General Report of the Seminar on "What is Democracy?" Congress on Education for Democracy, August, 1939.)

That is quoted from the Democracy Series of textbooks used for grade school classes when the US began mobilizing for war against Germany. This mobilization for war against Germany began long before declaring war on Germany and I suppose we can call it a covert action, because, heavens we would not use public education and children to mobilize our nation for war would we? Yes, we would.
We tried to prevent the Civil War with education, but the South caught on to the North using education to change Southern values and it began publishing its own textbooks, promoting southern values. And we used public education to mobilize for both the first and second world war, when it took us a good year to mobilize for wars and these wars depended on patriotic citizens to support the wars. Not like today and the ability to engage in war in a few hours notice and maintain a war without disrupting our morning cup of coffee. Today, our wars don't noticeably affect our lives so we can ignore how our military is used and why and that left the Military Industrial Complex free to prepare our young as products to serve the Military Industrial Complex and ignorant of democracy.

We stopped transmitting our culture and educating for democracy in 1958. Now everyone seems to think democracy is about politics rather than a way of life. And we think morals is about religion, rather than living sanely and having liberty and justice.

One way we might protect our democracy is to strictly limit paid political advertising and put more pressure on journalist and media in general to do their job of defending our democracy by keeping us well informed. If we knew more about the development of information gathering and how it is used, and knew more about the development if political advertising and the governments relationship with research and the media, and knew more about what industry and foriegn powers have to do with our campaign funding, perhaps we could reform politics in the US.

Some countries forbid or limit paid political advertizements.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_advertising

"Oh yeah, is that what you do?"

Of course, I use the power of my mind and I facilitate workshops that include understanding the power of our minds. It is a sad person, and possibly a sickly person, who does not understand the power of his/her mind. It is a mistaken person who believes it is a supernatural power and not one's own mind making a difference.

Yipes I am not understanding your last sentence

"There isn't a lot like scientific details, as there isn't in an account of history, a baking recipe, some directions, literary theories, or pretty much all philosophical theories as well."

I find history very useful. We can learn where concepts originated, and the circumstances that lead to that awareness and then how that concept traveled and was changed as it passed through the different regions/cultures.

What is really exciting about this moment in time is the flood of information we now have. I have been seeking information for many years and only recently have we had access to information that is not limited by our own culture and is inclusive of all people.

I think we are in the resurrection, with archeologist and geologist bring the past into the present, and that is our duty is to learn as much as possible and adjust our lives with this greater knowledge. If we are God's consciousness it is up to us to manifest it. No other animal is capable of this and only by working together and with all of history can we achieve this marvel.

"Good observation. There are greater differences between conservative Catholics and liberal Catholics than there are between the average Catholic and the average Lutheran. Conservative Baptists are vigourously opposed to ritual, liturgical seasons, and "catholic" in any form, and most other churches aren't much better than heathens."

I love the paganism I have found in some churches. But my oh my, preachers do not take well to a compliment on the paganess of their services. :lol:

I like a qabala explanation for rituals as something we do to benefit ourselves. God doesn't love us more if we brush our teeth, but brushing our teeth has benefits, and so it is with all rituals. If we create in our minds a benevolent Mother and Father or other spiritual power we will experience the benevolence.

"The beads of a rosary count the prayers as they are recited out loud or in the mind. Relying on the rosary beads to keep track of how many times you've said a particular prayer allows you to clear your mind and meditate on your prayer more effectively.

Prayer beads are used by members of various religious traditions such as Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, Sikhism and the Bahá'í Faith to mark the repetitions of prayers, chants or devotions, such as the rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary in Catholicism, and dhikr (remembrance of God) in Islam.
Prayer beads - Wikipedia — wikipedia

Ah, I didn't see a lot of science in those religious sentiments. It appears to be a belief system that is not compatible with democracy and all the progress we have made since the revival of pagan explanations based on a more scientific point of view. You know, the notion that it isn't the gods that cause things to happen, but it is the way nature works and we can improve things as we better understand them.

I have no idea what the holy ghost is supposed to be? Can you please explain that? Dumbing it down so maybe a person with a scientific point of view might comprehend what this is and how it works. The words you used seem to indicate it is a god of some kind. A god that is separate from Jesus and therefore giving us two gods, and then we must wonder is the Father in heaven a third god, or are the Father and Son the same and one thing with the holy ghost? Then speaking against Jesus or the holy ghost would be the same thing, right? And then, is the holy ghost is the same as the Father and Son or something different? How does doubting the existence of the holy ghost have an effect on us?

Doubting the power of germs we do not see and ignoring the need to wash our hands has an effect we can understand now that we know something of science. How do things work with the Father, Son and Holy Ghost?

The reason for having freedom of speech is democracy is rule by reason. This is sometimes mistaken as rule by popular vote, and this mistaken idea follows not understanding what science has to do with our liberty and democracy. However, when we understand democracy is rule by reason, we understand we are voting for truth and what will get good results, not exactly a popular person, or our favorite team, and the thought required for good judgment is understood differently.

Therefore, it is important to reason with religious people with the goal of achieving rule by reason and having a consensus on the best reasoning. It is the idea of democracy that this works better than excluding people and eliminating them from the discussion.

"Democracy is rule by popularity".

That is a really poor understanding of democracy and it is not worth defending people who believe that.

Oh yes, those European countries are Christian. :lol: And they all believed God was on their side when they fought wars against each other. Why do people make an issue of wars Christians have fought with Muslims? Christians have a history if killing Muslims and each other. Religion is good for war and war is good for religion. Democracy is what brought an end to this insanity, of Christians killing each other. It never was Christianity that brought us peace, but democracy. We would still be killing each other in the name of God if it were not for democracy.

It is much harder to get people to agree to a war when it means their lives are on the line and they are going to war for something other their God. Excuse me, would you please give us the money to invade Iraq because it is strategic to our control of oil and our economy depends on it. I don't think that would work so well. But it works if they are not Christians like us. Then our President is doing the will of God to invade and destroy the country with no plan for protecting woman and children and the antiquities, just a plan for protecting the oil. What do you want to say about the wars we have with Muslims?

"I'm just saying, democracy is evolving and it's even affecting our instinctive choices. The more intelligence we apply to our interactions the more we realise, even instinctively, that two heads are better than one. Popularity can include intelligence and in more ways than one it is continually proving so."

May I ask everyone who cares about this subject to attend a local city or county public hearing and report back if the meeting was democratic or autocratic? Were people able to have interactive discussions until there was a consensus of the best reasoning, or were people limited to 3 minutes to address complex issues, and then silenced? Were people engaging each other or the authority at the front of the room? Was there a consensus on the best reasoning or did those in the seats of power make the ruling?

Is your job under democratic or autocratic management? Do you have ongoing training and the expectation of raising in your place of employment, or is there a distinct division of those who make the decisions and those who follow orders? How do you think the employees of Ford and GMC would vote to the close the factories where they work? Would the citizens of those communities vote to get rid of the factories? Is autocracy working for us and the economies of our cities and nation? We had no concept of the democratic model of industry until the Great Depression when Deming tried to convince Industrialist in the US to use the democratic model. Of course, that was rejected. The decision was never put on our ballots.

Democracy is fully dependent on the education of citizens. It is dependent on being taught how to think, notwhat to think. Preparing our young to be products for industry, is not education for citizenship. Vocational training was introduced in 1917 when we mobilized for the first world war, and it was essential to our ability to win world wars because a high tech military needs people who understand the technology and how to use it. This is completely different from opposing armies marching into each other and battling it out with very little technology and 100% dependent on patriotic notions that make people kill each other. We don't need these guys any more nor their permission to go to war. We need their tax dollars so we can buy a lot of technology and use that technology to destroy the enemy. That military reality gave us the 1958 National Defense Education Act, and who would know, democracy is about rule by reason, and therefore education is essential to democracy?

Public education was about realizing the dream of the Age of Enlightenment and also resolving the problem of the immigration time bomb that concerns you. Back in the day, violence, social and economic problems were threatening our democracy, and education had nothing to do with vocational training. Education was all about preparing the young for liberty and justice and a democratic social organization.

At the 1917 National Education Association Conference, Sara H. Fahey, teacher of English, Seward Park School, New York City, explained we did not leave education for citizenship up to parents immigrating from countries that did not understand our institutions and reasoning behind our liberty and justice. We educated the children, trusting their parents would learn from them.

I am a great grandmother now and it is not immigrants who threaten me and our democracy, but the masses educated for a technological society with unknown values. It is education for the Military Industrial Complex, put in place during the Eisenhower administration, that is destroying our democracy. We adopted this education and the bureaucratic order of our world war enemy and we are no longer the democracy we defended in two world wars. We are the Military Industrial Complex we defended our democracy against. Hitler and Bush called this the New World Order. Eisenhower's term, Military Industrial Complex, is a more definitive label for this organization of humanity.

Democracy is not authority over the people. Unfortunately, the US modeled its industry after England's autocracy and Christianity has been the dominating religion. These autocratic institutions, the church, industry, and the military have controlled education. Education is like a like a genii in a bottle. The defined purpose is the wish and the students are the genii, Since 1958 we have prepared the young for a technological society with unknown values, and none have been prepared for democracy. Only when democracy is defended in the classroom is it defended. It has been left undefended for over 50 years, and those who remember our nation when we defended our democracy in the classroom are dead or at the end of their lives. There should be absolutely no need to point out democracy is rule by reason, not rule of authority over the people.

Today, there are no teachers trained to defend democracy in the classroom. Some understand the importance of logic to liberty and justice and some understand the importance of freedom of speech, but without the whole understanding of democracy as rule by reason, we are not manifesting the democracy that was the dream of the Age of Enlightenment. Liberal education is for free people. Education for technology is for slaves. We need a revolution in thinking to get our democracy back on track.

I love the way you used history and mythology to make your point! :love: I have given a great-grandson the gift the history by reading history to him as night time stories.

I much prefer to do things with the children than give them toys. Last year the main gift was a year pass to the science museum and we went several times throughout the year.

I really do not like gifts because I don't want to hurt others by getting rid of the gift and my home is really cluttered with gifts. But then my purpose in life is doing what makes others feel good, and as a grandson would say, that is selfish, because no matter what, I am doing what feels good to me.

I never meant to say anyone is obligated to keep a gift. But to increase the awareness of the importance of the importance of some a gifts, but not all gifts. Some gifts are carefully chosen to benefit the receiver. What Bitter Crank may call a trap gift because the good of the gift actually depends on the receiver reading the book or using it. Then the gift represents a life wish for someone and has more meaning than the receiver may realize.

At the homeless shelter, the number one rule is to keep your distance. The second rule is to attempt to defuse the problem. Hopefully, this begins before someone physically attacks someone.

My granddaughter disarms males with knives by being sweet. I am concerned that her self-defense training is horribly inadequate. Proper self-defense training means helping an attacker to the floor rather than striking the attacker or possibly putting someone into a hold and calling for help. She does not have that training.

How men and women handle an attack will be different because people respond to men and women differently and the average woman is not as strong as a man. Having a good relationship helps. Having recognized authority and the ability to put someone out in the cold and prevent them returning is helpful.
We are dealing with some pretty serious mental cases because of drugs or schizophrenia and we are responsible for protecting everyone. It is kind of like dealing with children. We don't start swinging on people as children would do, but attempt to calm them down or get them out of the shelter.

Is it wrong to spend a lot on a gift because the gift giver wants the receiver to benefit from the gift? Why spend all that money if the receiver is not going to benefit from the gift? What is the point of gift giving?

It is not a matter of the gift giver being loved. It is a matter of the person who receives the gift getting the benefit of the gift or not. If the receiver is not getting the benefit of the gift, then it was a waste of money to buy the gift.

This morning I am in hell. I have been working at a temporary shelter for homeless people. We have organized churches to open their doors on freezing nights. People are fed a dinner and breakfast and sleep on mats with one blanket. What I see when I volunteer to help troubles me greatly. I see people trapped in their own hells. Sometimes they are trapped in hell because they have a mental disorder and sometimes it is because they are doing a drug. Some of these people have cancer and some are in wheelchairs. Some choose to be on the streets and some do not.

In the early days of the United States many different religious groups believed it possible to create heaven on earth, and now we leave people on the streets even when they are dying or mentally too confused to care for themselves. How do we live with this reality? How could a hell be worse?

I very much like the notion that it is our duty to develop our talents. That works well with the idealism of democracy, as a social, economic and political organization that enables the most people to make their best contribution.

The democratic model for industry is about developing the talent and skills of each employee with ongoing education and opportunity to contribute to the company.

I like to think, the gifts I give are about helping a child develop. I want more for my money than the child having 10 minutes of fun with a new toy, that is trash the next week.

I do not understand? You seem to be saying my thinking is, but I think it may be your thinking that is wrong. When someone gives you a gift what is important about that gift? Is just a thing or something more?