I hope that you cope with the virus and rules. Part of the problem which I see is a lack of compassion for those who become unwell. It can come down to ideas of protecting others with lack of concern for those who are unwell with the virus.

On another level, the breakdown of the virus by those who experience it, like all forms of suffering, may be the apocalyptic breakdown for all kinds of personal transformation. — Jack Cummins

I turned in paperwork today and my Supervisor made it clear she did not want me to stay. A few years ago, she got COVID from her grandson and developed a very serious heart condition. In my group of people, there is a lot of compassion. Mostly my life is full of older people who have developed a lot of compassion because of going through hard times themselves. I sure would not want to expose my Supervisor to a new strain of COVID and she wants to protect everyone.

I am guilty of avoiding people who are different and trying to stay within my comfort zone because I feel vulnerable in my later years. I love my life that is senior centers, senior housing, and senior nutrition sites. Now that I am thinking on this, I see it separates me from my family. I think our different times in history give us different perspectives.

I think I was about 8 when I decided if Christians knew God's truth they would all agree and there would be only one denomination. Therefore, if I want to know God, I have to study what everyone believes of God since the beginning of religion and around the world. Like the Roman's did, after learning all we can, we choose what the most people believe is true and decide what is God's truth from there.

However, I have since learned science requires us to observe what we wish to study and test what we think we know. Since no one directly experiences God, that is not possible. Even if I could interview Him, I don't think I would understand Him any more that I would understand Einstien and his explanations. I just do not know enough to understand much of anything.

Maybe if we lived 300 years I might know enough to understand God.

I would say you are explicitly incorrect, or are misusing hte term Fascism which is quite specific, and not just an indicator of violent governmental enforcement. — AmadeusD

Of course, you have studied bureaucratic order, public policy and administration, and know what you are talking about. But then you would be unusual. Not many people find that area of study interesting. But some who understand the fascist relationship with economics might not agree with you.

Fascists have commonly sought to eliminate the autonomy of large-scale capitalism and relegate it to the state. However, fascism does support private property rights and the existence of a market economy and very wealthy individuals. Thus, fascist ideology included both pro-capitalist and anti-capitalist elements.

Economics of fascism - Wikipedia

However, someone as good-looking as your avatar doesn't have to know everything. :grin:

That can be a very good thing. It can be what leads to an epiphany. — wonderer1

Oh yeah. I have epiphanies often and that is why I engage in forums. However, when I am busy with life I don't have much time to think. When reality demands we be in the here and now, we have an epiphany and immediately snap back to the moment in time that demands our attention. But when nothing demands my attention my brain can get flooded with thoughts. If anyone experiences this, how are such moments best managed?

That leads me to another wonderful quote...

Bertrand Russell - The whole problem with the world is...

BrainyQuote
https://www.brainyquote.com › quotes › bertrand_russe...
Bertrand Russell Quotes ... The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.

One way to avoid Covid is to shun other people, who are nothing but hell, according to J. P. Sartre. Fuck Sartre.

Kant asked, "What can I know? What ought I to do? What can I hope?"

There are clear positive answers to the first two questions, which we can at least hope is the case. — BC

Those are some interesting questions that fit the spirit of questioning my mind. What are your answers?

With Hall and his interest in cultures in mind, I googled if Kant traveled and got this...

Kant is certainly among the five most influential philosophers in history. A curious case, this Kant. They say that travel broadens the mind, but Kant never in his whole life traveled more than ten miles from his home city of Königsberg (now Kaliningrad).

Kant 200 Years On | Issue 49 - Philosophy Now

That is amazing, isn't it?

When I read your outpost I missed seeing the bit about you having Covid, so hope that you get well soon.

Sometimes, after all the rules and regulations, it as if Covid is ignored almost. It is still around, alongside so many issues which were brought on by the pandemic/lockdown, which have been the trigger for so much psychological and societal breakdown. — Jack Cummins

I was not aware of how complacent we have gotten! Some stores don't even carry masks any more. I was freaking out just trying to find a store that have masks and the store clerks thought I was a little nuts until I said I have COVID. Then they were glad I was wearing a mask, but it was a used one that I left in the sun to sanitize. We do what we can. :mask:

It has spread rapidly because we are tricked into thinking it is only a cold. I thought I had recovered from a cold and went in public. Then a friend called and said he had COVID so I got tested. By then I had exposed people. If he had one day early that would have been avoided.

I hope this is my last day of isolation. I have 2 test kits and will stay home until I get a negative result.

"The exciting thing about mathematics and science and music and literature is what they can tell us about the workings of the human mind. For these disciplines are literally models (extensions) of at least certain parts of the mind. Just as the knife cuts but does not chew, while the lens does only a portion of what the eye can do, extensions are reductionist in their capability. No matter how hard it tries, the human race can never fully replace what was left out of extensions in the first place. Also, it is just as important to know what is left out of a given extension system as it is to know what the system will do. Yet the extension-omissions side is frequently overlooked.”
― Edward T. Hall

Interesting idea. Logicians might be able to do this, but math people use words and symbols. I have never heard of a math research paper written in math symbols only. Thinking in mathematical terms is common amongst my colleagues, but even there one talks to oneself with words. — jgill

Perfect! I wish I could know what you know through experience with those who think mathematically. I am quite sure some things can not be communicated with math, but I am not sure exactly what divides the world of math and human language, but I suspect AI does not get high scores for comprehending being human. Being human is an experience and that is outside of logic. We are not predictable machines. Are barely inside the laws of nature, compared to the rest of the animal kingdom.

How many books have you read about why math is deemed a very important thinking tool? What justifies us taking you seriously as an authority on communication or math?

Sounds like Early Wittgenstein's picture theory of language.

What if we did not use words, but communicated with math?
— Athena

How would that work, basically? — Lionino

Good gravy, I do not know! As I just said in another thread, there is so much I do not know and didn't even know I didn't know so much. I swear I am at a time in my life when every day I feel more and more ignorant of everything I do not know and absolutely paniced to figure out a way to reduce this ignorance.

I sure respect Socrates right now and I would bet my bank account, he did not know how much he did
not know until he got old. :lol: Remember when we were teenagers and thought we knew it all?

I can barely imagine how it is to think in terms of mathical code. To see H2O and know that means water, is special. To think "water" and immediately think where does it come from and where does it go and why is it important and is it clean and safe to drink, etc., etc. is absolutely amazing! No other animal on the planet has this capability. Yes, animals can communicate but they do not come close to the mental activity of which we are capable.

You made me look for a book on the subject and there are several. The one I want most is over $100. :scream: How sad that we leave people ignorant by overpricing books. But I am thinking if my life falls apart and I have to reorganize it. I should buy all the related books and study them and then attempt to organize a club of interested people.

You do know most of us (US) are totally ignorant of the rest of the world, right? Forgive me, I know nothing of your elector system, nor that there was anything to learn of it. This is a grievous error for someone committed to democracy.

We had a chance to vote on having a better voting system and the only media-type information we got is the new system was never tried. I knew that was a lie but I did not know how big the lie is. God help me, there is so much I do not know and so much to learn.

I can see that blowback coming with the present US support of Israel. That could have played a strong roll in removing Biden from the Democratic ticket. He lost me on that one and if the Republicans offered a better candidate than Trump they could get me if Kamala continues to announce her support of Israel.

This is not anti-Semitic as Arabs are also Semitic but it is anti-Zionism. Zionism has been the cause of the fighting from the beginning. It is not a democracy like the US and if it were the problem would have been resolved democratically.

If you start with the question, "what is information?" the way to go is to survey existing uses of the word. Another approach would be to do what Shannon and other researchers did, which is to start with a specific problem, something that matters, and then see whether a concept with a family resemblance to "information" fits. But starting with the answer, before you even understand the question, is backwards. — SophistiCat

I am reading about this matter of what is information. I am reading Rudy Rucker's book "Mind Tools".
He writes- "Anyone at the receiving end of a communication is involved with "information processing." I may communicate with you by writing this book, but you need to organize the book's information in terms of mental categories that are significant for you. You must process the information."

Spoken and written communication are, if you stop to think about it, fully as remarkable as telepathy would be. How is it that you can know my thoughts at all, or I yours? You have a thought, you make some marks on a piece of paper, you mail the paper to me, I look at it, and by some mysterious communication algorithm, I construct in my own brain a pattern that has the same feel as your original thought. Information!"

He goes on to explain numbers, space (and patterns that create forms), logic, and finally infinity and information. Problem is I know so little about math this book might as well be written in Greek. I am unprepared to understand what I am reading. There is so much I need to know before I can understand.

What if we did not use words, but communicated with math? I know mathematicians can do that, but what if from the beginning we all did? I am sure my IQ would be much higher if I could do that. And I wonderful how thinking in mathematical terms might change our emotional experience of life.

I want to acknowledge your post. What do you think of Rank Choice Voting?

What is ranked choice voting?

RCV is a process that allows voters to rank candidates for a particular office in order of preference. Consider a race where four candidates – A, B, C, and D – are running for a single seat such as Governor. In an election utilizing RCV, voters simply rank the candidates 1-4, with the candidate ranked as “1” being the voter’s highest preference for Governor. If a candidate is the first choice of more than half the voters, that candidate wins the election. But if no candidate gets the majority of the vote, the candidate with the least amount of support is eliminated, the second choice support for that eliminated candidate are redistributed, and this process continues until a candidate wins more than half of the vote.

For example, let’s say a voter prefers, in ranked order, candidate B, C, D, and then A. But, no candidate receives a majority of the votes in the first round, and candidate B receives the least first choice support. Candidate B is eliminated, and support for candidate B are distributed to the voter’s second choice, which in this case is candidate C. This process repeats until a candidate has a majority of the vote.
https://campaignlegal.org/democracyu/accountability/ranked-choice-voting?gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIh-zMpvaIiAMVug6tBh0H6DBYEAAYASAAEgJI6PD_BwE — DemocracyU Accountability

In almost every election for several years I wanted to vote for someone who is not a Democrat nor a Republican but I didn't because always it is either one of the two parties that win, and the risk of the worst one winning is too high. We have to change this very corrupt two-party system. We have to open the possibility for someone outside of the two-party system to win.

Well, you're an American, right? What else would they say?

We'll be in power and we'll not care a shit about you, but keep voting for us.

Perhaps that would be at least honest? — ssu

Neither one of the US candidates appeals to me. The government is to govern things, not run them.
Both candidates are fighting over who sits in the driver's seat. But what needs to be regulated and how can that be done?

I believe everyone has good intentions but not enough knowledge for good judgments.

Donald Trump might now indeed be what you say. But he is a sign of something much bigger, much more powerful, more pervasive than any one single person is or could be. Even if he doesn't get reelected, it's quite possible that someone just like him, and worse, will be. Because this is what America is all about. — baker

What is America all about?

Yes, I see this. But there is a tenuous, speculative connection to fascism involved in the analysis. Is there something deeper being indicated here? — AmadeusD

We know fascism for its violence rather than its bureaucratic and economic order. I am offering a link about how popular fascism was in the 30's. I have chosen just one paragraph that got my attention...

Certain British intellectuals were perhaps the most smitten of anyone by fascism. George Bernard Shaw announced in 1927 that his fellow “socialists should be delighted to find at last a socialist [Mussolini] who speaks and thinks as responsible rulers do.”4 He helped form the British Union of Fascists whose “Outline of the Corporate State,” according to the organization’s founder, Sir Oswald Mosley, was “on the Italian Model.” While visiting England, the American author Ezra Pound declared that Mussolini was “continuing the task of Thomas Jefferson.”5 https://mises.org/mises-wire/rise-economic-fascism-america — Mises Wire • Thomas J. DiLorenzo

There are so many ways this discussion could go. Always humans have worked for social security and we have tried many different ways of meeting the needs of the people. Fascism is one of them and its bureaucratic model was adopted by the US in 30s when Hoover and Roosevelt worked together to design big government. This shifted individual power to governmental power, and with this comes promises that our candidates will meet all our needs. Trump goes so far as to claim we will never have to vote again if he is elected because he will resolve all our problems for us. Kamala Harris promises to raise minimum wages but I don't know how this can happen without inflation and closing businesses that depend on cheap labor. I don't think we know enough to make good judgments and this thread is about global ramifications.

Through this forum, I have learned what I consider a fascist order is throughout Europe and this must be so because of the competition for world resources. We must have strong governments to compete and that is not the democracy that came out of the Enlightenment. Technology is changing our lives a lot and that includes the power of governments. Elements of fascism and for sure technology make a government strong. Education is very important to all this.

Nevermind the fascist point. I had something else in mind. :yikes: — Wheatley

But if we want to understand reality perhaps we should discuss what fascism has to do with the strength of the US. The US is not the democracy it defended in world wars. Both the Republicans and Democrats are promising to take care of us, leaving us nothing to do but obey and be thankful we are so well cared for. Tocqueville 1831.

We're on the same page regarding the interrelationship of: science, art, ecology. Now, in this conversation, I want to detail in some stuff that talks in a rational and general manner about what the differences are between the two titans: science/art, and how those modal differences are mediated by the unifying synchro-mesh of ecology.
a day ago — ucarr

Can you turn that into a four-dimensional pentahedron? That is a sincere question, not an attempt to inform anyone of anything. Here is the deal for me, I am uncomfortable with either/or arguments. either or arguments are mostly this and that. We live in a 4-dimensional reality so maybe we want to consider four dimensional patterns in statements of truth?

I heard, in India, it is assumed when we speak of one thing, we speak of its opposite. In the west we are very materialistic and seem to ignore movement and change. I Ching the Chinese Book of Change always includes the change. It takes into consideration the unfolding of seasons and climate. At times the climate will favor change and at other times the climate will prevent change.

I do not understand math but I keep trying. It is clear to me that the failure to understand math keeps my IQ low and I am qualified to discuss my opinion but not to participate in arguments based on empirical information and math. Without an intelligent thought of my own, I will quote from the book "Mind Tools" by Rucker.

"Number, space, logic- the most basic concepts of mathematics. Why are they so fundamental? Because they reflect essential features of our minds and the world around us. Mathematics has evolved from certain simple and universal properties of the world and the human brain. That our mathematics is effective for manipulating concepts is perhaps no more surprising than that our legs and good at walking."......

Rucker argues "It is evident that the thought forums of dyad, triad, and tetrad are objectively given archetypes. They correspond to the very basic numbers 2, 3, 4. The number 5 is also quite basic, and we might suppose there to be a thought form consisting of five related concepts. Let's call this form a pentad. One way of drawing a pentad is as the "quincunx" a legitimate dictionary word meaning "an arrangement of five things with one at each corner and one in the middle of a square.

This is, of course, a flattened picture. Just as the quaternity takes its truest form if we let it pop up into a three-dimensional tetrahedron, it turns out that a pentad takes its most natural shape if we let it spring out into a four-dimensional "pentahedron".

What do you think? for me that relates to so many other sources of math information that I have a hard time understanding.

The essentially difference between the sciences and the humanities is cross-culturalism. Science, as a method, is not culture bound (in the general sense). It's motivation is simplicity of theory, not outcomes.

Everything in the humanities is culture-bound (in the general sense) and outcomes are the policy-driving forces. These aren't problems, though. — AmadeusD

This is impressive thinking. :up:

We have a problem. According to this link Persians were comparatively more civilized than those who wrote the Bible. It had slaves but slaves were paid and as protected by law as the free person. Compared to the Bible which has different laws for slaves than the protection of law of a free man.

How did the Persians treat women?
In general, we can say that Persian women enjoyed power, influence, and economic opportunities. They were involved in the military and owned businesses, and held the same jobs as men. Some women never married or had children, but this wasn't seen as a problem.

Women in Ancient Persia: Royalty, Privileges & Tradition - Lesson

One more comment. The Prussians treated those they conquered a hell of a lot better than Christian Europeans treated indigenous people.

If democracy is discredited worldwide, the world risks regressing into a new Middle Ages, which is a deeply concerning prospect. This scenario becomes more likely if Russia defeats Ukraine in the current conflict. — Linkey

In the 1920s a newspaper printed a warning. "Given our known oil supply and rate of consumption, we are headed for economic disaster and possibly war."

We know the economies of all industrial nations collapsed and the world went to war. Since then the US has made a considerable investment in controlling the world's oil supply and its national debt is out of control, because wars are expensive. Now it appears Mother Nature is also out to get us as natural disasters are also very costly. But our high-tech society still believes God is taking good care of us and we do not need to pay attention to science. However, as the Greeks believed if we don't get things right, they can go very badly. I don't think the Bible makes that so clear. We stopped educating for good moral judgment and left moral training to the Church. We want plenty of cheap gas as though reality should not get in the way of what we want. Now we hope if God doesn't take of us, AI will.

Our Declaration of Independence could also be called a Declaration of Responsibility but are we feeling responsible for our national decisions?

What we call “democracy” nowadays is dressed-up oligarchy, modelled on the Roman republic. There is a ruling class, not a body of free and sovereign people. — NOS4A2

I would love to discuss what education has to do with that. Liberal education was for those who were expected to be politically active. And being politically active meant more than voting the party ticket. Individuals in the US had authority and were not subject to policies that were made without their participation. Today, even doctors are treated like laborers working on an assembly. Teachers are no longer the authority in their classrooms.

Our reality today is not the democracy we defended in two world wars. However, I think we are modeling Germany under the Prussians who lived for war because we have so completely embraced ruling by policy that is set without the participation of those affected by the policy. That bureaucratic technology is not Roman but is the enemy we defended our democracy against in two world wars.

For instance, ancient Macedonia was more civilized than ancient Persia, even though both were monarchies. This difference can be attributed to Macedonia’s proximity to Greece and the democratic traditions of the latter. — Linkey

How do you justify that statement? Or where is the evidence? I have a book about Persia that I haven't read and no book about Macedonia. So I have no idea how Macedonia was more civilized. The Persians had impressive architecture and crafted items and art. They had religious freedom. How does that add up to being less civilized?

Nothing, I am not there.
BUT, they would only have to redistribute the provisions for six and would probably have to prepare to die a day earlier if not rescued. — Sir2u

When I did that exercise, I volunteered to leave the life boat. That response is directly related to the way I was raised. I was the oldest child and if my sister wanted I had and she wanted it, I was supposed to give it to her, because I was older. And if we were offered a piece of cake or cookie, we were to take the smallest one. It become a habit to put others first.

Another student responded in a better way. He got his seat in the life raft because he knew how to get water out of the air. I remember my WWII father believing individuals should make themselves too valuable to kill. He survived the war by being a medic. They are not put on the front line with a gun in their hands and told to walk into enemy fire. What insanity that is!

↪Athena
I don't think a planet of nonconsumers is a good idea.
— Athena

What's wrong with organisms being nonconsumers? Surely, it is better to be able to live without consuming any air, water, food, sunlight, etc.?

what kind of human being would exterminate people with disabilities
— Athena
The Nazis killed lots of disabled people. It's very sad but it happened.

Would you feel safe living next door to someone like that?
— Athena

No, I would not.

Perfectionism is dangerous. How might we avoid that?
— Athena

Cultivating empathy and compassion would help. — Truth Seeker

I think your replies are full of philosophical potential. I am listening to a professor who is very careful with defining words and as he defines life, if something is not consuming and reproducing it is not life. Processing energy is fundamental to life. If something is not doing that, it is not living.

Your reply to living next door to a killer certainly has philosophical potential.

Would it matter if it were a man or woman who caught a spouse cheating, or if the person killed in a war, or someone who killed another in the process of a robbery?

I really like holding concepts of empathy and compassion counteracting perfectionism and in its extreme killing people to purify society. We might expand on that thought. During the Middle Ages in different places at different times, one religious group killed another believing they were preparing earth for the second coming of Jesus. So your notion can have individual meaning or social meaning. I hope you have something profound to say about the importance of our words as we talk to ourselves and also as we share ideas with others.

Did you checkout how much certain countries actually hold in reserve? And most grains can last decades in the correct conditions. — Sir2u

Yes I read that link and promptly fell asleep. :lol: :cry: I have to use a machine to keep me breathing when I sleep and just this morning with Truth Seeker's prompting I discovered my machine is not working properly. Sorry everyone, I am out of order and not functioning properly.

I believe the link said wheat can be held for 8 years. I really doubt that would be healthy. I want my food fresh. I also see a need for holding food in reserve and with a population the size of China that has to be a huge challenge.

While there is concern for feeding everyone, I want to mention what they tell mothers on an airplane. When the oxygen masks fall put it on yourself so you have the ability to help the child. Self-sacrifice can be a very bad idea when that means being of no use to others.

That makes me think of a common thought exercise used in many college classes. There are 6 people on a life raft with enough provisions for 5. What do you do?

We should certainly use contraceptives to keep our population at an optimum level for the Earth. I am not suggesting that we should be encouraging people to be freeloaders. I am suggesting collective equal ownership and contribution based on ability and receiving based on needs. I know a thirty-year-old autistic man who is still in nappies and is non-speaking. His condition severely limits what he can do. The Nazis would have executed him. I once met someone who believed in the ideology that if you can't defend your life you don't have the right to live. I believe that all living things have a right to life, not just the ones that can defend their lives. Vegan egalitarianism will reduce the amount of suffering, inequality, injustice, and death on Earth. It would be even better if we could genetically engineer all living things to be nonconsumers so that they can exist without consuming any air, water and food. — Truth Seeker

Oh my, I don't think a planet of nonconsumers is a good idea. On the other hand, one has to wonder what kind of human being would exterminate people with disabilities. Would you feel safe living next door to someone like that?

I think that is extremism and the many years of the Reformation were years of extremism. People wanted the best we could achieve, and that made them willing to kill of willing to risk their own lives. Perfectionism is dangerous. How might we avoid that?

I don't like the focus on meeting people's needs as Sparta did. Athens did not have the same focus on meeting needs but was focused on creating opportunities. One diminishes the commonwealth and the other increases the commonwealth.

France kept its economy hampered with decisions that favored the wealthy. The Dutch developed such a good economy they could go into banking and make even more money.

Economics is a hard subject and perhaps it is one of the most important things for us to understand. The only thing I am confident of is focusing on opportunity gets better results, than focusing on needs.

This looks interesting
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But feeding people who go on to have children who will also be dependent on receiving food, increases the problem. We can not keep increasing the human population. We live on a finite planet and need to base our decisions on that.

I just looked up how long wheat can be stored and that is 8 to 10 years. I am not opposed to storing food. I don't mind passing out money but I am not going to empty my bank account so today someone has some money. Each individual and each country must have a reserve for unexpected events. If a nation is not achieving this goal we need to know why and resolve the problem.

I am strongly in favor of birth control practices. It really bothers me that our economies demand growth and that means we are building our city over more and more farmland! This is insane. Not all land is good farmland and we should be protecting it. We should also leave land and resources for the animals we share this planet with.

I am listening to history lectures from the "The Great Courses" and European countries were made poor by kings who insisted on wars that did nothing for their countries. They were so far in debt all their income had to go to bankers who funded the wars. It is totally insane behavior and we are still doing it. However, I applaud the brave souls who have accused the Israel and Hamas leaders of war crimes. I hope they carry this through and actually act on this decision.

Health and welfare is not charity, it is a state's obligation to its people that pay taxes and healthcare from their wages. — Sir2u

That is an opinion. I have dealt with medical personnel who believe Medicaid is charity. The last time I went to the Social Security office the person I had to turn to for information considered Supplemental Security Income to be charity. And these people announce that in such a demeaning manner I want to crawl away and go hide in a hole.

Military spending is different from military aid to other countries, but I would like to see the elimination of both. And they are not my allies either, I am not an American. — Sir2u

So if a nation were bombing your country would still disapprove of the US providing weapons for defense? What can be done to end the threat of war and the expense of war?

↪Athena You keep ignoring my points. My points remain true even if you keep ignoring them instead of acknowledging them. — Truth Seeker

Okay I have read your links but I am not sure what your points are. Can you list them?

Holy crapola, that is one bunch of rolled up blah blah blah. — Sir2u

That was disrespectful. Time for me to move on.

Maybe because we are not interested in finding out anything about you. Give us a clue to where you live or your name and I am sure we could come up with something though. — Sir2u

I talk about myself in the forum all the time. I live in Oregon. USA. I am elderly and at the moment focusing on learning about the Renaissance and Reformation. I am low income and like to give money away when it is a free choice. Not so much when it is over $5,000 in car repairs for a car that in the Bluebook is worth $500. :lol:

If the world was a moral place place there would be no charities, they would not be needed. — Sir2u

That recent high isn't the result of a slow climb, nor is it due to inflation. In constant dollars, U.S. foreign aid obligations jumped from $56.3 billion in 2021 to $70.4 billion in 2022, the latest year for which final data is available from a federal tracker.Jan 18, 2024

Countries That Receive the Most Foreign Aid From the U.S https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/countries-that-receive-the-most-foreign-aid-from-the-u-s#:~:text=That%20recent%20high%20isn't,available%20from%20a%20federal%20tracker.

[/quote]Defense spending by the United States accounted for nearly 40 percent of military expenditures by countries around the world in 2023, according to recently released figures from the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI). U.S. defense spending increased by $55 billion from 2022 to 2023, in part due to additional military aid sent to support Ukraine in its ongoing conflict. The United States spends more on defense than the next nine countries combined. https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2024/04/the-united-states-spends-more-on-defense-than-the-next-9-countries-combined [/quote] There is a graph at this link saying the defense spending in $916 Billion.

The defense spending is quite a bit more than the foreign aid spending, but the foreign spending does not include the cost of dealing with immigrants. I don't like the wording of this next link but the facts are important.

WASHINGTON, D.C.—This week, the House Committee on Homeland Security majority, led by Chairman Mark E. Green, MD (R-TN), released a shocking new interim report as part of its ongoing, comprehensive oversight investigation into Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas and President Joe Biden’s reckless open-borders policies that have facilitated in the worst border crisis in American history. This report details the immense financial costs of the unprecedented border crisis being borne by American taxpayers, including the costs for health care, shelter, education, and law enforcement, as well as costs forced on private property owners and businesses. According to one estimate, housing and other services just to those who have been released into the United States on Mayorkas’ watch, or entered as known gotaways, could exceed $451 billion. https://homeland.house.gov/2023/11/16/what-they-are-saying-homeland-majoritys-fourth-interim-report-on-the-financial-cost-of-secretary-mayorkas-border-crisis/

So if we add $70 billion and $451 billion we get $521 billion and if we look at this as charity we can add another trillion to this.

The United States' welfare budget totaled $1.101 trillion in fiscal year 2023, or 18% of all federal outlays. Eight different federal agencies run welfare. This analysis pulls information from the agencies to show a combined federal welfare budget. The welfare program listing is shown below.

welfare budget - Federal Safety Net https://www.google.com/search?q=welfare+cost+in+US&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS926US926&oq=welfare+cost+in+US&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIICAEQABgWGB4yCAgCEAAYFhgeMg0IAxAAGIYDGIAEGIoFMg0IBBAAGIYDGIAEGIoFMg0IBRAAGIYDGIAEGIoFMgoIBhAAGIAEGKIEMgoIBxAAGIAEGKIE0gEKMTE0NzVqMGoxNagCCLACAQ&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Maybe that means more is spent on caring for other humans than is spent on military defense. Would we like to reduce that military spending by denying military support to our allies? Would that be cost effective? :grimace: I do not like giving Israel weapons but some of them a strictly defense preventing bombs from landing. Truly defensive weapons save lives and may prevent the use of destructive weapons. I don't think the choices are simple.

How can someone become a billionaire if they have been donating most of their income throughout their life? I have donated a large percentage of my income to charities since I was four years old. How could a human become a millionaire (i.e. have USD 1,000,000 in their bank account and/or own assets of this value) if they donated most of their annual net income, never mind a billionaire? It's impossible. — Truth Seeker

Wow, I wish everyone would acknowledge what I say by adding facts to what was said.:heart: It made want to read the link carefully. I am so pleased that the rich are getting richer because that means it is possible to increase wealth.

It would help to understand what are the rules for increasing wealth? What if charities learned the rules for increasing wealth and by using those rules they became wealthy and could do more? I seriously think government needs to take control of something like say the internet or AI and get its revenue that way instead of taxing people. The problem is not knowing how to increase wealth, but not knowing how to increase wealth. Our taxing system from the past and inappropriate for a high-tech society.

If you were struggling to keep your family alive as was so in 1820 as people moved west and struggled to survive on their homesteads, and knew nothing except what your church and neighbors told you, you would not be so unhappy about our failure to provide everyone with the good life. We are demanding more for everyone because we are accustomed to abundance. This is important because it means we need to change our thinking for a new reality. WHAT TO DO WE KNOW ABOUT ECONOMICS? Please, stop talking to me about rich people being greedy, and talk to me about economics and social organization. Your notion of people being greedy and not compassionate is myth. The big lie/myth is we need to be saved and we are not moral until we are saved. The truth is God was not a loving God until people's bellies were full. Around the world people of all faiths are very caring. The poor peasants are very willing to share a meal and be gracious host to the stranger. At least the geologist I have spoken with say that is so. Hawaiians didn't need Christianity to have beautiful spirits and a good culture. Many cultures put a high value on giving.

If the world was a moral place place there would be no charities, they would not be needed. — Sir2u

Oh really? and how is that organized? In the middle ages some Christian groups were strongly in favor of communism. Perhaps you are a reincarnated anabaptist?

Anabaptism (from Neo-Latin anabaptista,[1] from the Greek ἀναβαπτισμός: ἀνά- 're-' and βαπτισμός 'baptism',[1] German: Täufer, earlier also Wiedertäufer)[a] is a Christian movement which traces its origins to the Radical Reformation in the 16th century. Anabaptists believe that baptism is valid only when candidates freely confess their faith in Christ and request to be baptized. Commonly referred to as believer's baptism, it is opposed to baptism of infants, who are not able to make a conscious decision to be baptized. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabaptism

In the late 1520s Bernard Rothmann became the leader for religious reform in the city of Münster.....

The pamphlets at first denounced Catholicism from a radical Lutheran perspective, but soon started to proclaim that the Bible called for the absolute equality of man in all matters, including the distribution of wealth. The pamphlets, which were distributed throughout northern Germany, called upon the poor of the region to join the citizens of Münster to share the wealth of the town and benefit spiritually from being the elect of Heaven. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhard_Rothmann

From what I have read the attempt to have complete equality became anarchy with people leaving their doors unlocked and people having sex with anyone whenever they pleased. The objection is there isn't even family order and I do not believe the complete lack of social order would be viable. I also do not believe a leader is equal to a follower, a peasant is equal to a scientist. Complete equality is not viable.

Have you looked at https://inequality.org/facts/wealth-inequality ? I know that some billionaires are generous but most are not. If they were so generous from the beginning they wouldn't get to be billionaires in the first place. — Truth Seeker

This is not working. We are doing unimaginably better than in the past and can either agree with than or defend what appears to be your notion that great progress has not been made. How could you possibly know most billionaires are not generous? The answer to that question requires how you got that information. How can you know more about "them" than you know about me?